A Conversation About Seller's Fees

[Peter_F]

Perhaps consider not permitting ad's under the sale price of $30, maybe even $50?

 

I often see ads $5 - $10 for one CD, and with multiple ads by the same seller of the same value. Perhaps free and low priced items could be excluded from the classifieds all together to reduce the admin burden?   

 

Or consider only being able to list bulk lot collections of CD's, LP's and other lower priced items for a minimum price of $50, which must be sold as a single transaction? 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Peter_F said:

Perhaps consider not permitting ad's under the sale price of $30, maybe even $50?

 

I often see ads $5 - $10 for one CD, and with multiple ads by the same seller of the same value. Perhaps free and low priced items could be excluded from the classifieds all together to reduce the admin burden?   

 

Or consider only being able to list bulk lot collections of CD's, LP's and other lower priced items for a minimum price of $50, which must be sold as a single transaction? 

 

 

The Vinyl/CD subforum is actually exempt from moderator pre-approval for the very reasons you mentioned - the amount of labour that was involved. This seems to have worked well so far and hasn't required much intervention from us (nor are scammers going to try for $5 or $10).

[eman]

Don't want to be paying a Classifieds access fee when I only use it now and then.

 

It has been a very good experience and less expensive trading here.

[Cloth Ears]

13 hours ago, muon* said:

I like it the way it is.

 

Except for the ones avoiding the fees, otherwise AOK.

 

A listing fee would deter me, ...

Ditto - I think I've only sold one item in the classifieds, but I've seen numerous items posted more than once that never seemed to sell. And having a listing fee would put me off listing anything here...it doesn't matter how small the fee is, paying for possibly no return scares me away. But the 4% (or 3%) post sale fee would be fine (I think I donated 4 or 5 when I did make a sale).

If there's a limited number of free listings (5?) then this would encourage me.

Also, if I did end up selling through Gumtree (or other fee free site), I was wondering if you can still contribute (say 2% instead of 4%)?

Edited April 20, 2023 by Cloth Ears

[April Snow]

I am not sure if I am understanding it right, but are some thinking it is a good idea to pay a "access fee" to just view the Classifieds Forum?

 

I check the Vinyl For Sale classifieds out of curiosity and admit I have only bought a couple of LPs from there, but those purchases have been albums I was not necessarily looking for but decided I needed them when I saw them listed for sale.  

 

So this makes me wonder if one has to "pay to view" and decided they did not want to pay just to browse,  that would then mean less people browsing the classifieds (traffic) and less sales from impulse buyers?

 

I guess it will come down to how much the fee is 

 

 I have never listed anything for sale in Classifieds but I admit it is poor show to list on here and not pay seller's fees if sold on here.

*Shame on You if you have done this*

 

But I am not sure much can be done about it if a person lists here, Gumtree, FB & Ebay at the same time though? That one is a bit tricky - unless of course one pays a listing fee upfront to SN. That would work and I am a fan of that idea. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Pay to "view" is not and never will be under consideration.

[April Snow]

2 hours ago, Cloth Ears said:

Ditto - I think I've only sold one item in the classifieds, but I've seen numerous items posted more than once that never seemed to sell. And having a listing fee would put me off listing anything here...it doesn't matter how small the fee is, paying for possibly no return scares me away. But the 4% (or 3%) post sale fee would be fine (I think I donated 4 or 5 when I did make a sale).

If there's a limited number of free listings (5?) then this would encourage me.

Also, if I did end up selling through Gumtree (or other fee free site), I was wondering if you can still contribute (say 2% instead of 4%)?

 

Oh that is a point I never thought of 

 

So maybe the listing fee should apply to the initial (first) listing - but if you have to relist due to a no sale then there should be no fee to repost the same advert?

 

[5L15]

@Marc I think a 1-2% fee of the total value of goods would be fair (with an unlimited re-listing option for items that don’t sell) for SN’s members.

If an item sells for a lower price then the seller could adjust the ad before clicking the sold button and can make the appropriate final valuation fee adjustment.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by 5L15

[NonPlayableCharacter]

As a buyer and a seller multiple times over, I see the classifieds on here as a privilege. I have enjoyed:

• The ability to buy something on a whim, try it and then move it on if it doesn't fit, with very little loss.
• Buying an item knowing I have paid probably more than a dealer would offer in part-exchange, but less than the dealer would seek for it, thereby benefiting both seller and me. 
• Selling an item knowing I have priced above what a dealer would offer in part-exchange, but less than the dealer would seek for it, thereby benefiting both buyer and me.
• Access to a trusted network of buyers and sellers.
• Some bloody good contacts and friendships made along the way.

The site and the classifieds facility is so valuable to me that I even paid sellers fees of over 4% on the iFi Zenphono that I sent all around the country when the last borrower expressed an interest in keeping it, despite never listing it in the classifieds.

 

There is no way I could have built my system as it is today without the classifieds or the wider benefits of this site and I am certain I am not alone in this situation. Frankly, I've paid a comparative pittance for the advantage I have enjoyed.

 

The fees are inconsequential in the light of all this and I'm disappointed in those that would abuse the facility and make it more difficult for the rest of us.

 

An additional burden to code for and to write guidelines for, but a "Report Seller" button (rather than just flagging the post in the normal way to gain Volunteer attention) could be considered to draw attention when a seller tries to take the conversation off-platform for the purpose of avoiding fees? Without doubt this could be abused too. I don't know... this is a difficult one with no clear answer.

 

 

[Cloth Ears]

23 minutes ago, April Snow said:

 

Oh that is a point I never thought of 

 

So maybe the listing fee should apply to the initial (first) listing - but if you have to relist due to a no sale then there should be no fee to repost the same advert?

 

I think that was discussed earlier - in that a listing fee would only ever be for the initial listing, not for relistings.

 

But, for me, if the initial listing doesn't attract any attention, I would probably not relist. Which might now mean, wasting my money - thus causing a serious think about listing in the first place.

 

But, for members who generally do not sell, a small number of 'free listings' would be acceptable to me. And I'd still want to pay a seller's fee if I did sell!

[Andythiing]

A listing fee does the following (say $5 per add)

- possible reduces easy target scammers

- provides some surety in terms of financial record of payment to SNA

- shows a level of serious intent

- provides a base level of income to SNA so those doing the wrong thing trying to avoid fees contribute something 

- those financially benefiting from the web site are paying for the service (at least to some degree)

-other?

If you can’t afford a $5 listing fee you shouldn’t be selling on SNA in my opinion - go to gum tree instead 

 

I’d still encourage Marc to consider this in combination with sliding scale - but in reverse - higher price products pay higher fee % wise not the other way - if you want to sell or buy big ticket items via SNA (eg greater than say $5k or $10k) then you pay for this but get better service for seller/buyer (if Marc can provide eg identity check?) 

 

id also have a scale in number of sales eg for flippers or genuine hobbyist who like to find their hobby with regular upgrades etc - I’d say 5 free sales per year then you have to jump extra hoops or pay more - may not sit well for some but if your serious about the community and benefits of SNA for selling you will want to make this work for Marc - I’d rather this than another cable debacle affecting heaps of members 

[Willco]

Yes Interesting to see this crop up--it's been prudently obvious over the last months the increase in "Sold Elsewhere" has deviant implications and erstwhile ulterior motives some --not all cases--that being to circumnavigate the Seller fees here.

The posters above have outlined some consecutive and intelligent suggestions  and I think one can safely state we/all are OK with the seller fee instigation as the SNA classified section has grown/become the premier Audio selling site in Australia--Kudos to Admin on that !

To close it would be a definite retrograde step --some moves to strengthen its potential should be in the thinking I'd hazard future wise .

 

So we come to the ubiquitous situation of Monies collected for or after sales either upon posting and/or selling of said Items.

It is plainly too easy at present to redirect would be buyers on the classifieds to either alternative sales sites or the seller to convey his email Mobile via the PMs. As admin probably know both Ebay and Agon block Emails / Tele numbers etc on private messages--they have big guns behind them with that and I do not think SNA would want to outlay costs /time etc to get that program up--so what I would think may be a procedure that possibly with members consultation may work--

 

A: A Placement fee for each Advert say-- $5 for Audio up to a figure say $500 and $10 $1K and over-- then 2% on Final value fee--But I 'd suggest  don't do a Agon/Ebay and include the Freight in this take.

 

So SNA would at least get some renumeration up front--Agon use this method  also

 

Now those figures I mention are only my Suggestions and can be modified as Admin /Other members see fit.

 

I am not in favour of yearly fee for Classified membership frankly.

 

All the above YVMV--purely my thoughts to keyboard

 

Trusting you get satisfactory outcome and best,

 

Willco

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Willco

[cafe67]

With respect - you can’t bag people for selling gear on other forums as well as SNA. 
 

that SGR rack I’ve got for sale here, is also for sale on gumtree and a couple of FB ( for sale) pages and I’ll sell it to whoever buys via whatever forum first. 
 

what are you going to do, insist that people only sell their gear here ? 

Edited April 22, 2023 by cafe67

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, cafe67 said:

With respect - you can’t bag people for selling gear on other forums as well as SNA. 
 

that SGR rack I’ve got for sale here, is also for sale on gumtree and a couple of FB ( for sale) pages and I’ll sell it to whoever buys via whatever forum. 
 

what are you going to do, insist that people only sell their gear here ? 

 

No one is "bagging" anyone. I have encouraged open communication about the problems associated with a small handful abusing the system that we currently have in place that requires honestly.

 

It might pay to read the thread (and my post) properly. I specifically stated that was not going to happen!

[cafe67]

On 20/4/2023 at 3:04 PM, thejt said:

Have you ever considered a small annual fee for access to the classifieds (buy and sell) while the rest of the forum remains free? I get more entertainment out of the classifieds than Netflix! A small and reasonable amount is fair I think. It is not different to say a Patreon to support channels on youtube. 

How the hell is that a good thing, I like to read through the classifieds and buy when/ if I see something I want, but I’d be less than impressed if I had to pay for the privilege. 

[rantan]

7 minutes ago, cafe67 said:

With respect - you can’t bag people for selling gear on other forums as well as SNA. 
 

that SGR rack I’ve got for sale here, is also for sale on gumtree and a couple of FB ( for sale) pages and I’ll sell it to whoever buys via whatever forum. 
 

what are you going to do, insist that people only sell their gear here ? 

 

Hi Dave.

The issue under discussion here is that (some) people who have gear listed on several platforms will direct SNA generated sales enquiries to the other platforms in an effort to avoid seller's fees.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with multiple platform listing, but the issue is that if there is an expression of interest, received originally via an SNA listing, then that person should not then direct that enquiry to another platform in order to avoid selling fees.

If the original enquiry comes from a Gumtree listing and is subsequently sold via Gumtree then there is no problem at all.

[cafe67]

11 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

Hi Dave.

The issue under discussion here is that (some) people who have gear listed on several platforms will direct SNA generated sales enquiries to the other platforms in an effort to avoid seller's fees.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with multiple platform listing, but the issue is that if there is an expression of interest, received originally via an SNA listing, then that person should not then direct that enquiry to another platform in order to avoid selling fees.

If the original enquiry comes from a Gumtree listing and is subsequently sold via Gumtree then there is no problem at all.

I understand that and to be honest the last couple of bigs items I’ve sold were via gumtree to local Perth buyers - possibly the joy of living in the worlds most isolated (capital)  city.

 

having said that, I always post something for sale here first and for a few days as I prefer to sell to somewhere here to hopefully a appreciative person, rather than some random off gumtree. But I’ve also had the misfortune to buy a couple of dud items from established members - so this “ hifi family” thing only goes so far. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by cafe67

[NonPlayableCharacter]

30 minutes ago, cafe67 said:

But I’ve also had the misfortune to buy a couple of dud items from established members - so this “ hifi family” thing only goes so far. 

 

That really sucks. Sorry to hear someone has done that to you - it's the other side of the same coin with those wanting a free ride in the classifieds.

 

You definitely don't fall into that group who wilfully attempt to deceive and it's easy to see where you are coming from in light of the above.

[Synodontis]

On 20/04/2023 at 6:02 PM, Marc said:

 

This information is still displayed (though now appropriately titled Seller's Fees) but is only visible to Admin/Volunteers - which I believe is fair given it's not voluntary any more.

 

Not long after I got here, I hated seeing that big zero $ amount. After I brought a few things off the classifieds, I made a donation just see an amount there

[cafe67]

36 minutes ago, Synodontis said:

 

Not long after I got here, I hated seeing that big zero $ amount. After I brought a few things off the classifieds, I made a donation just see an amount there

I think a few people lost their donations amount in one of the SNA crashes? 
 

actually where do donations show up now , can’t seem to find it ?

Edited April 22, 2023 by cafe67

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cafe67 said:

I think a few people lost their donations amount in one of the SNA crashes? 
 

actually where do donations show up now , can’t seem to find it ?

 

I don't recall that - and the current history goes back a long way.

The second part of your post was also previously answered in this thread.

[Tony M]

I'm old enough to remember when selling something involved placing a classified ad in the daily newspaper.  It cost to advertise then and I think that's a reasonable and appropriate principle.

 

So, I'd lean towards a "listing fee".   That way the vendor pays for the exposure on SNA, which is what is actually being sold by the website.  Whether or not a sale eventuates isn't strictly relevant to the intrinsic contract between the vendor and the website, which is to "broadcast" the sale offering.

 

I don't have a firm opinion on whether the listing fee should be flat or dependent on the asking price.  I'd lean towards a flat fee for simplicity but perhaps a few broad price-based categories to cater for the difference between selling a few CD's and a high-end component would be a good idea.

 

In the newspaper example, the ad size determined the cost.  Obviously, the digital platform overcomes this to the advantage of both the vendor and buyer, who both benefit from the ability to post photos and almost unlimited info.  I wouldn't be in favour of anything like different rates for "standard" vs "premium" ads as the site costs are the same either way and it's an unnecessary complication.

 

I might even get around to selling some stuff one of these days - if so, I'd be happy to pay for the quality exposure on SNA vs the other options.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Tony M

[Tobias]

I also think that a listing fee for each ad would be the fairest method. Independent of the item value because the time invested by the SNA team for each ad would be independent of the item value too. 

 

And I personally don’t believe that a post sale fee based on the item value is a good method. In the end, what I’m paying for is the wide exposure SNA has to offer. Not for any buyer protection features I could access post sale if things go wrong. Unlike platforms like eBay…

[muon*]

Low income here, a listing fee and I would often have to forgo listing here and need to resort to gumtree instead.

[maxspl]

I would have thought that with all of the advertising fees and sponsor fees Stereonet would already be  very profitable.

 

If there must be selling fees as well better to make it a flat listing fee as 4% can be thousands of dollars in fees for the sale of a single high end item.