High Output MC recommendation

[alain]

Hi all,

 

Just wanting to get some feedback on anyone's experience with high output MCs.  I am currently using an Audio Note IQIII which I have had for the last 5 years and I think I may need a new stylus soon. I was originally thinking of sticking with the Audio Note but have reached out to the dealer who sold me the original cartridge but I've not heard anything back after a few messages and emails.  I am thinking maybe trying a new cartridge and instead of another MM try a high output MC cartridge as I want to stick with my Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 phonostage.

 

I am budgeting to a similar level as the Audio Note IQIII which was I think was around $1250 5 years ago so expecting to spend under $2000.  A few options I have in mind were the Benz Micro Glider SH and Goldring Eroica HX.  I also have a friend who has a Van Den Hul Frog HO who may be willing to sell.

 

I'll be using it on an SME M2-9 tonearm and SME 20.

 

Anyone with experience with these 3 cartridges or any other suggestions are much appreciated.

 

Thanks

Alan

 

 

[NonPlayableCharacter]

11 minutes ago, alain said:

Hi all,

 

Just wanting to get some feedback on anyone's experience with high output MCs.  I am currently using an Audio Note IQIII which I have had for the last 5 years and I think I may need a new stylus soon. I was originally thinking of sticking with the Audio Note but have reached out to the dealer who sold me the original cartridge but I've not heard anything back after a few messages and emails.  I am thinking maybe trying a new cartridge and instead of another MM try a high output MC cartridge as I want to stick with my Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 phonostage.

 

I am budgeting to a similar level as the Audio Note IQIII which was I think was around $1250 5 years ago so expecting to spend under $2000.  A few options I have in mind were the Benz Micro Glider SH and Goldring Eroica HX.  I also have a friend who has a Van Den Hul Frog HO who may be willing to sell.

 

I'll be using it on an SME M2-9 tonearm and SME 20.

 

Anyone with experience with these 3 cartridges or any other suggestions are much appreciated.

 

Thanks

Alan

 

 

 

A few on here have great experiences with the Hana ML (myself included) which is low output, but they do the MH variant too which is high output. You may want to have a look at this for your shortlist too. It comes in a little under your budget.

 

I'm delighted with mine, but the itch has already started and I'm looking at the Hana Umami Blue. If I do pull the trigger then I'll be moving my 100-odd hour Hana ML on.

[andyr]

Why do you want to move to a HO MC, @alain?

 

To me they are a hybrid that fails to reach "the sweet spot".  

 

The biggest issue, AFAIAC is that their output is typically 1-1.5mV - whereas a typical MM is 5mV.  Which means that your standard MM phono stage - with its 40dB gain - doesn't have enough gain to pair well.

 

However, I note your Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 phono stage is available in 3 different gain levels - if you have the default 54dB version ... then you will be fine.

 

The only other thing to be careful of is ... does the much lower compliance of a HOMC (compared to an MM) cause any problems for your SME M2-9?

 

[alain]

2 hours ago, El Tel said:

 

A few on here have great experiences with the Hana ML (myself included) which is low output, but they do the MH variant too which is high output. You may want to have a look at this for your shortlist too. It comes in a little under your budget.

 

I'm delighted with mine, but the itch has already started and I'm looking at the Hana Umami Blue. If I do pull the trigger then I'll be moving my 100-odd hour Hana ML on.

 

Thanks El tel for your suggestions.  I read the review of both and it seems that the characteristic of of the ML is similar to the MH. The only thing for me to think about is the required lower input impedance of around 30-31k ohms that the review said was more ideal than the standard 47k ohms of my phonostage.

 

Cheers

[alain]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

Why do you want to move to a HO MC, @alain?

 

To me they are a hybrid that fails to reach "the sweet spot".  

 

The biggest issue, AFAIAC is that their output is typically 1-1.5mV - whereas a typical MM is 5mV.  Which means that your standard MM phono stage - with its 40dB gain - doesn't have enough gain to pair well.

 

However, I note your Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 phono stage is available in 3 different gain levels - if you have the default 54dB version ... then you will be fine.

 

The only other thing to be careful of is ... does the much lower compliance of a HOMC (compared to an MM) cause any problems for your SME M2-9?

 

 

Thanks Andyr,  the only reason on thinking about the HO option is that there are not many MM within the  Audio Note IQIII price and performance.  If the sound of the HO options is similar to the low output MC equivalent then it may be a route I could take without changing my phonostage which is set for 54db.  The output of the 3 cartridges are around 2.25-2.5mV  which hopefully is enough to work with it.

 

Can you comment more on the HOMC characteristics which in your view not ideal or more difficult to work with?

 

The SME website suggests that the M2-9 should be able to work with lower compliance cartridges.

 

Thanks for your assistance.

Alan

[andyr]

32 minutes ago, alain said:

 

The only thing for me to think about is the required lower input impedance of around 30-31k ohms that the review said was more ideal than the standard 47k ohms of my phonostage.

 

 

That is no problem at all, Alan.

 

The Stereophile Specs page I found said this:

 

 

- ie. one "custom loading" is provided.

 

If this is true then it would seem there are some sockets available on the PCB for you to put a resistor into - this would then act in parallel with the default 47k to give you the value you want.

 

100K resistors would deliver 32k combined loading, 150k would deliver 35.8k (in conjunction with the default 47k).

 

If the 'custom loading' connectors are missing - then you will have to buy some RCA 'T connectors'; you plug these into the phono input RCAs and use the 2 inputs for:

• the phono cable
• and a 'loaded' plug - ie. an RCA plug with a res soldered across it.

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by andyr

[colinm1]

i am waiting on a grado to come to my door ,it is in the $2000 odd price range and mi

moving iron ,much the same specs as a mm,

at 5mv , and no loading  to fiddle with or needing to get right 

may be worth looking at too 

 

 

[andyr]

5 minutes ago, alain said:

Thanks Andyr,  the only reason on thinking about the HO option is that there are not many MM within the  Audio Note IQIII price and performance.

 

I'm afraid I don't know the price of your AN IQIII, so can't comment.

 

5 minutes ago, alain said:

If the sound of the HO options is similar to the low output MC equivalent then it may be a route I could take without changing my phonostage which is set for 54db.  The output of the 3 cartridges are around 2.25-2.5mV which hopefully is enough to work with it.

 

Yes, 2-2.5mV output will be fine with your 54dB gain.  

 

5 minutes ago, alain said:

The SME website suggests that the M2-9 should be able to work with lower compliance cartridges.

 

Excellent!  

 

5 minutes ago, alain said:

Can you comment more on the HOMC characteristics which in your view not ideal or more difficult to work with?

 

I think people "jump up" to MCs because they think they will get a much sweeter top end than they get from an MM.  This may well be the case ... but I personally really can't tell which I prefer between my Stanton 'WOS CS100' (MM) and my ZYX 'Ultimate Airy X' (LOMC).

 

MMs - with their much higher compliance - track very well; of course, this assumes the arm & cart suit each other.  Note that the arm I have my Stanton on is very light (7gm eff weight) ... whilst the arm which the ZYX is on is very heavy (24gm eff weight).

 

What I'm saying, I guess, is that arm/cart suitability is much more important than the difference in sound between an MC and an MM.  I suspect your SME M2-9 tonearm will work best with either a low-compliance MC ... or a high-compliance MM - but not both!  

 

So that should be your deciding factor.

 

[andyr]

7 minutes ago, colinm1 said:

i am waiting on a grado to come to my door ,it is in the $2000 odd price range and mi

moving iron, much the same specs as a mm,

at 5mv, and no loading  to fiddle with or needing to get right 

may be worth looking at too 

 

Hehe - actually, not quite true, Colin.  

 

I think you will find that Grado wood-bodies sound better, loaded at 33-35K ... than they do at 47k.

Which Grado btw?

 

[colinm1]

Reference 2 

 

[andyr]

5 minutes ago, colinm1 said:

Reference 2 

 

Verry nice!  

 

Shall I send you over a pair of 120k loading plugs?  

 

[colinm1]

Just the resistors as I have a few quality rcas I could use 

thanks 

[colinm1]

May be worth a seperate post to talk about high quality mM ,mi 

compared to mc ‘s of the same price point 

 

[andyr]

2 minutes ago, colinm1 said:

Just the resistors as I have a few quality rcas I could use 

thanks 

 

Will do, Colin.  

 

[GregWormald]

If the main reason for a change is the worn stylus, then a new stylus would keep the sound very similar (if not better with a high end diamond) and save money too.

[alain]

Thanks Andyr for the loading information and suggestions. I'd definitely check whether I can put the resistor into the vacant space for the Hana MH if I go down that path. 

[alain]

4 hours ago, colinm1 said:

May be worth a seperate post to talk about high quality mM ,mi 

compared to mc ‘s of the same price point 

 

I definitely think its worth a separate post.

 

Btw Colin, will you be using the Grado on your VPI 19 and ET arm?  Be good if you can let us know how you get on.  My father has a VPI 19 MKIV and an ET arm in a box which I am thinking of setting up at some stage.  When I get a chance to try and find the surge tank or have time to fashion one. 

[alain]

2 hours ago, GregWormald said:

If the main reason for a change is the worn stylus, then a new stylus would keep the sound very similar (if not better with a high end diamond) and save money too.

Yes, the main reason was the possible worn stylus after a few years of use, but also the itch to try something new to compare it to.  The IQIII has a titanium cantilever and a Gyger I stylus. 

[evantador]

Denon DL-110.  High output MC at a reasonable price.

 

https://phono-cartridge-reviews.co.uk/reviews/denon-dl-110/

[cafe latte]

On 08/05/2023 at 10:39 AM, alain said:

Hi all,

 

Just wanting to get some feedback on anyone's experience with high output MCs.  I am currently using an Audio Note IQIII which I have had for the last 5 years and I think I may need a new stylus soon. I was originally thinking of sticking with the Audio Note but have reached out to the dealer who sold me the original cartridge but I've not heard anything back after a few messages and emails.  I am thinking maybe trying a new cartridge and instead of another MM try a high output MC cartridge as I want to stick with my Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 phonostage.

 

I am budgeting to a similar level as the Audio Note IQIII which was I think was around $1250 5 years ago so expecting to spend under $2000.  A few options I have in mind were the Benz Micro Glider SH and Goldring Eroica HX.  I also have a friend who has a Van Den Hul Frog HO who may be willing to sell.

 

I'll be using it on an SME M2-9 tonearm and SME 20.

 

Anyone with experience with these 3 cartridges or any other suggestions are much appreciated.

 

Thanks

Alan

 

 

Try a low output Grado Opus 3 ( low is 1mv which is quite high similar to low output MC). They are 400 bucks, stock they are good, retipped they are stunning and MI does all a MC does ie good square wave and low moving mass. Google the Grado Epoch 3, almost the same engine with a decent stylus.

Chris