Triggering 12v trigger/Harmony issues with Moon ACE

[blybo]

So, my new HT build is now down to the fine tuning of automation. For some reason my Harmony Elite will not power toggle my Moon 2ch amp (with HT bypass), despite a lesser RF Harmony Ultimate remote w/hub controlling it no problems in a separate room in my previous home as part of a separate 2ch system. The Hub can't learn the command either and the remote can't send it directly to the Moon ACE. The Elite will switch inputs and volume though.

 

No worries then, I'll use triggers to switch on/off. The Moon ACE does not have 12v triggers as such, but does have "Moon Link" in and out which use standard 3.5mm mono cables. These appear to simply be 12v triggers which trigger some software driven input automation in linked Moon devices.

 

My want is to set up triggers in the following flow;

Marantz Cinema 50 AVR trigger out,

to Elektra power amp's trigger in port,

Elektra power amp's trigger out

to Moon ACE "Moon Link" in.

 

Would there be any risk of damage in trying this out?

 

The only downside I can see (if it works) is that when using the Moon for 2ch listening, my Marantz AVR will also have to be switched on via the Harmony remote to trigger the power amp and Moon (which is operating only as a pre-amp in this setup).

 

[BugPowderDust]

Personally I’d try it. I think your risk profile is pretty low. the fact that it’s a 3.5mm socket is pretty telling in terms of purpose
 

Some triggers use different voltages but they won’t be grossly different (might be 5v instead of 12v) and often happily coexist. 

[Guest]

I would imagine Moon Link is just their fancy name for "trigger". 

As BPD says above, it's telling of its purpose just by the type of connection they've used.

I'd try it.

Like you, physical triggers were needed for on/off of some of my components (even in a complete automation platform) whereas inputs/volume etc was easily controlled by remote. I don't actually mind physical triggers, as they're 100% reliable.

[blybo]

Thanks guys. Looks like I'm detouring via Jaycar on the way home...

[Guest]

Opt for mono cables where you can, too (they can be surprisingly difficult to find sometimes). 

I've got away with stereo plugs on some devices, but others can be picky.

[blybo]

Just now, Marc said:

Opt for mono cables where you can, too (they can be surprisingly difficult to find sometimes). 

I've got away with stereo plugs on some devices, but others can be picky.

Yes Elektra amps are finicky and must use mono, and Moon also specify mono, but unsure if stereo would work, but a moot point anyway as I'm going mono

[blybo]

Worked as expected for the Elektra, not the Moon. I'll take a deep dive into the Moon manual and see if there is something to programme... there doesn't appear to be anything in the setup menu.

 

My Elektra has a reasonably loud pop on start up and switch off of 1 channel only, and a faint hum through the speaker audible up close when nothing is playing. I've tried a different RCA lead liberally coated in de-oxit, but no joy. The previous owner had no issues but had always used XLR connections whereas I'm restricted to RCA.  I hate to say it, but it's off to Arthur to have a look under the bonnet once the initial honeymoon of having a functioning system wears off. I hope he will work on it in a timely fashion

[Guest]

Hmmm. Nothing of any use in the manual and yeah doesn't sound like there's anything in the menu system either.

This reads word for word the same as my Mark Levinson stuff (which I think they call ML Link). But those jacks definitely work from an external trigger too on mine.  Stating the obvious surely, but you definitely plugged into your SimLink In port yeah?

 

What did I miss? Why wouldn't you go from Marantz, to Moon, then to Elektra?

Thus, turning your amps on last and hopefully avoiding a turn-on thud.

[blybo]

30 minutes ago, Marc said:

Stating the obvious surely, but you definitely plugged into your SimLink In port yeah?

Yes I did

 

30 minutes ago, Marc said:

What did I miss? Why wouldn't you go from Marantz, to Moon, then to Elektra?

Thus, turning your amps on last and hopefully avoiding a turn-on thud.

Now this is worth a try. Thanks for your help. The amp turns on last anyway due to a bit on a power on lag, but the thud is still there, I suspect a minor and easy repair.

Edited May 11, 2023 by blybo

[blybo]

@Marc no luck but there is a silver lining. I've discovered that the Moon has a faulty IR receiver, it won't accept any presses of the remote at all now, but the remote is working. Luckily Moon have a 10 Year warranty. I'm going on a bit of a road trip soon so it will be the perfect opportunity to get the Moon and Elektra sorted without being frustrated by a non functioning room.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, blybo said:

I've discovered that the Moon has a faulty IR receiver, it won't accept any presses of the remote at all now, but the remote is working.

 

Another long shot, but was the IR only not working while you had a trigger wire connected?

Try disconnecting it and see if the remote works again. A long shot, as I said, but I'd be fascinated if that's the case.

If it's not just a straightforward trigger, then it is possible that the "MoonLink" does disable the IR receiver as part of a "control" system.

[blybo]

20 minutes ago, Marc said:

 

Another long shot, but was the IR only not working while you had a trigger wire connected?

Try disconnecting it and see if the remote works again. A long shot, as I said, but I'd be fascinated if that's the case.

If it's not just a straightforward trigger, then it is possible that the "MoonLink" does disable the IR receiver as part of a "control" system.

No I removed the trigger cable as soon as it didn't work as desired. I checked the IR remote by putting it up to a phone camera, which can see infra red light. I only discovered this when having a faulty Apple TV tested by a JB HiFi salesman. A little piece of info I immediately put in the noggin for future needs.

Edited May 15, 2023 by blybo

[blybo]

Moon and Elektra is back from repair (no fault found on the Moon) and it is now powering toggling from the factory remote, but not from the Harmony after learning the power toggle command. This is really weird as it worked on another Harmony model in my old house.

 

The Moon remote also toggles power my Marantz AVR which puts the Harmony remote out of sync so it seems I'm back to manual on/off of the Moon for the time being until I can think of another solution... maybe some form of triggered power switch?

[TP1]

On 18/07/2023 at 10:12 AM, blybo said:

Moon and Elektra is back from repair (no fault found on the Moon) and it is now powering toggling from the factory remote, but not from the Harmony after learning the power toggle command. This is really weird as it worked on another Harmony model in my old house.

 

The Moon remote also toggles power my Marantz AVR which puts the Harmony remote out of sync so it seems I'm back to manual on/off of the Moon for the time being until I can think of another solution... maybe some form of triggered power switch?

 

Have you solved this yet?  If you are still having issues  I would suggest  a couple of options.  Firstly track down discreet codes for the Moon Ace  to switch on and off. I know toggle is supposed to do the same thing but not all gear in my experience  behaves that way  consistently. You can then set the Harmony to send  2 commands  each time to ensure the message gets through.

 

The other option is to buy a device like this (link below )  and have the Moon turn on with the 12v trigger every time.  I use these and they  work perfectly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-kits-and-boards/audiophonics-trigger-12v-230v-slave-power-supply-device-p-10661.html

Edited August 19, 2023 by TP1

[blybo]

this has not been resolved but I'm happy simply manually turning it on for now. It appears to be an issue with this particular Harmony remote (or it's setup) as another lessor RF hub based Harmony has worked perfectly with the Moon amp in another house/setup.

[TP1]

1 hour ago, blybo said:

this has not been resolved but I'm happy simply manually turning it on for now. It appears to be an issue with this particular Harmony remote (or it's setup) as another lessor RF hub based Harmony has worked perfectly with the Moon amp in another house/setup.

 

Ok.  I  think the problem is solvable though. One of my components did the same thing with power  toggle.   If you downloaded the IR codes from Harmony's database they should also have the discreet  on and off codes.  You can check if they work with your unit by selecting the Moon device on the mobile harmony app, scrolling to to the page with the power  icons and try pressing  the green "on" button ( press twice to be sure) .   If the unit fires up, I would substitute  the discreet "on" and "off"  commands for the power toggle command  in the activities that use the moon amp.

[blybo]

13 minutes ago, TP1 said:

 

Ok.  I  think the problem is solvable though. One of my components did the same thing with power  toggle.   If you downloaded the IR codes from Harmony's database they should also have the discreet  on and off codes.  You can check if they work with your unit by selecting the Moon device on the mobile harmony app, scrolling to to the page with the power  icons and try pressing  the green "on" button ( press twice to be sure) .   If the unit fires up, I would substitute  the discreet "on" and "off"  commands for the power toggle command  in the activities that use the moon amp.

Thanks but I've tried that. I have years of experience with Harmony remotes.

 

I'm considering selling the Moon anyway as I'm finding I'm not using the TV Room/Theatre for music.

[TP1]

2 hours ago, blybo said:

Thanks but I've tried that. I have years of experience with Harmony remotes.

 

I'm considering selling the Moon anyway as I'm finding I'm not using the TV Room/Theatre for music.

 

Fair enough, I hate it when things don't  work like they should though.  One last thing, did you try getting the Harmony remote to learn the the code from the Moon's own remote?   In theory it should work and perhaps the harmony database codes are not correct. 

[blybo]

15 hours ago, TP1 said:

 

Fair enough, I hate it when things don't  work like they should though.  One last thing, did you try getting the Harmony remote to learn the the code from the Moon's own remote?   In theory it should work and perhaps the harmony database codes are not correct. 

Yup tried that too. My initial thoughts about the Moon havng an issue were unfounded, my cats had obviously stepped on the Moon remote at times and hit the button to control a CD player rather than the amp.