Addicted to music Posted June 12, 2023 Posted June 12, 2023 SB Acoustics uses Santori drivers. some members here uses them for sure and i know of one and have heard of his set up briefly. for those who have them was wondering if you compared them to other drivers of the same size and price range. They are also distribute by Wagner Components. http://notanotherhifiblog.blogspot.com/2022/08/sb-acoustics-sasandu-beauty-with-sweet.html
DavidH71 Posted June 12, 2023 Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) I can only really compare them to Vifa drivers but I can say they are some of the best sounding speakers I have ever listened too , the midrange is superb , here is my build of Troels Gravesen SBA-761 speakers using the Satori drivers I purchased all mine from WES components which is the same as Wagner except you need an account to get them a bit cheaper. SB Acoustics are some of the best bang for buck drivers around , the company was started by ex Scan Speak employees who thought they could do better for less which from my experience they have achieved , I also have them in my car and they sound really really good , way way better than some Polk Audio speakers I had prior. Edited June 13, 2023 by DavidH71 1
davewantsmoore Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 On 12/6/2023 at 9:22 PM, Addicted to music said: SB Acoustics uses Santori drivers. some members here uses them for sure and i know of one and have heard of his set up briefly. for those who have them was wondering if you compared them to other drivers of the same size and price range. No.... well, not much. Because Satori are (some of) the most expensive retail drivers I have tried. I have compared them to most everything else in the "cost approximately half as much as satori" category (basic ranges from Seas, SS, Tymphany... Dayton, TB, etc.). They are very very good... but I think for the most part, the cost is not justified. Frequency response/directivity, and not using the driver in LF range where it is uncomfortable... all make much more difference than the choice of driver (assuming drivers are appropriately spec for the app). ... but OTOH, if I was building a special speaker for someone with the budget, then why not.
andyr Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: ... but OTOH, if I was building a special speaker for someone with the budget, then why not. Absoloootely! On 12/06/2023 at 9:22 PM, Addicted to music said: SB Acoustics uses Satori drivers. some members here use them for sure and i know of one and have heard of his set up briefly. You can mention my name, Peter! Here are mine: ... an interesting contrast to the ones you linked to: Note: I suspect these are marketed as "full range" spkrs - but I would suggest subs will be needed if you're a fan of Bach organ music ... or 'Yello'. (So they're not "full range" AFAIAC!) My 6 1/2" Satori mid/bass drivers hand over to (stereo) subs at 110Hz.
davewantsmoore Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 38 minutes ago, andyr said: I suspect Sure... it depends on the SPL being designed for. The 7.5 satori motor has a significant amount of travel... but it's going to be done by 100dB @ 30Hz or whatever. That being said, running the drivers too low, only impacts at high SPL (non-linear distortion) ... so doesn't happen all the time, and when it does can be much less audible ...... than running the drivers too high, which impacts frequency response vs angle - and so this is highly audible at all SPLs. ... but yes, anyone who wants to play the organ needs a subwoofer. Brand agnostic.
surprisetech Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 On 12/6/2023 at 9:22 PM, Addicted to music said: SB Acoustics uses Santori drivers. some members here uses them for sure and i know of one and have heard of his set up briefly. for those who have them was wondering if you compared them to other drivers of the same size and price range. They are also distribute by Wagner Components. http://notanotherhifiblog.blogspot.com/2022/08/sb-acoustics-sasandu-beauty-with-sweet.html plenty of reputable manufacturers using the Satori range & other SB Acoustics lines. Hulgich & Kingfisher off the top of my head. I used SB drivers in my DIY main speakers, but not the Satori, although I did look at some of those. Chose others models because the performance was so close to the Satori, & in some respects, like 30deg off axis response, the models I chose were better. Having become familiar with quite a few of thei models I now see them popping up in a lot of commercial designs. 1
Addicted to music Posted June 18, 2023 Author Posted June 18, 2023 On 17/06/2023 at 4:36 PM, surprisetech said: I used SB drivers in my DIY main speakers, but not the Satori, although I did look at some of those. Chose others models because the performance was so close to the Satori, & in some respects, like 30deg off axis response, the models I chose were better. which models did you decide on?
Addicted to music Posted June 18, 2023 Author Posted June 18, 2023 @andyr that pic in your post shows a Satori Beryllium driver. Found a review with measurements: https://hificompass.com/en/reviews/satori-tw29txn-b Not cheap!
andyr Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 10 hours ago, Addicted to music said: @andyr that pic in your post shows a Satori Beryllium driver. Found a review with measurements: https://hificompass.com/en/reviews/satori-tw29txn-b Not cheap! I sent you the model no. of my tweeter, Peter; it's the AT60NC-4 tweeter.
davewantsmoore Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 11 hours ago, Addicted to music said: Not cheap! This is the one to go for if you have the cash and are building a 2-way (or whatever with crossover below ~2.5khz) https://sbacoustics.com/product/satori-tw29bnwg-4-beryllium/
surprisetech Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 12 hours ago, Addicted to music said: which models did you decide on? SB15NRXC30-4. 5" Mid-Woofer. (Chose a mid-woofer over dedicated mid so that I could x-over to the woofer around 300Hz and still be well clear of the driver resonance freq. and have no issue with power handling.) SB26ADC-C000-4. 1" Tweeter. It's a 3-way design utilizing a Peerless 830669 woofer that I was already very happy with, but wanted to improve on my vintage midrange & tweeter, lower the woofer-mid crossover point and put it all in a better enclosure. The build is documented here: 1
THOMO Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 Revel use SB acoustic and/or Satori drivers. The Satori tweeters seem to be especially good. I do tend to think the Satori line is a bit overpriced however.They are Indonesian made so should be a lot cheaper than European made alternatives but they aren't.Slightly cheaper perhaps.
andyr Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 1 minute ago, THOMO said: Revel use SB acoustic and/or Satori drivers. So you're suggesting they must sound good? 1 minute ago, THOMO said: The Satori tweeters seem to be especially good. I agree! When someone came round to listen to my new spkrs ... he subsequently asked me what the tweeters were and then went off and replaced the tweeters he had used in his own DIY spkrs. 1 minute ago, THOMO said: I do tend to think the Satori line is a bit overpriced however. They are Indonesian made so should be a lot cheaper than European made alternatives but they aren't. Slightly cheaper perhaps. But if they really were "over-priced" ... I suggest Revel wouldn't use them.
THOMO Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 I suspect Revel pay substantially less than retail! And with low labour costs SB is probably in a much better position to discount to major buyers than their European alternatives.
Addicted to music Posted June 19, 2023 Author Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) ive actually audition a number of speakers with ribbon EMT ribbons. I be interested in @andyr AT60NC-4 tweeter to some of the other tweeters in the Satori range. The Satori midrange 4-6" are very good. The trouble is is that @andyr set up is a dipole. Im going to box the drivers. This another review on a Satori tweeter: https://hificompass.com/en/reviews/satori-tw29txn-b Quote: Above are the harmonic distortions plots for the 2nd - 5th harmonics at average sound pressure levels of 92 and 104 dB (at voltages of 2 and 8 Volts respectively). To limit the speaker overload in terms of thermal power and membrane displacement when measuring harmonic distortion, a second-order Butterworth type high-pass filter with a cutoff frequency of 800 Hz was used. The second harmonic dominates the entire frequency range at all sound pressure levels. The third harmonic goes 20-30 dB lower, and the fourth and fifth even lower with a large margin. The harmonic distortion pattern is stable at both frequency and SPL. There are no sudden abrupt jumps in distortion over the entire range due to the membrane break-up, especially at high SPL. With an increase in the input voltage, starting from 2 kHz and below, harmonics of all orders begin to grow monotonically. I would rate the harmonic distortion of the TW29TXN-B as "very low", one of the lowest I have ever seen in tweeters. Excellent! Edited June 19, 2023 by Addicted to music
BioBrian Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 This SBA Be tweeter is certainly holding its own in some fine company. Particularly shattering in movies. I also find the Satori MW13P mids are outstandingly fruity (good) for voice, combined with the more modestly-priced Satori TW29RN tweeters. 4
Addicted to music Posted June 19, 2023 Author Posted June 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, BioBrian said: This SBA Be tweeter is certainly holding its own in some fine company. Particularly shattering in movies. I also find the Satori MW13P mids are outstandingly fruity (good) for voice, combined with the more modestly-priced Satori TW29RN tweeters. The top of the line beryllium is $619 https://www.wagneronline.com.au/satori-1-dome-tweeter-beryllium-neo/sba-satori-range/sb-acoustics/speaker-drivers/audio-speakers-pa/tw29bn-b-72235/991344/pd/
BioBrian Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Addicted to music said: The top of the line beryllium is $619 That's the one. I haven't done a direct comparison, but I have a couple of the top Be Scanspeak tweeters running too. Not as 'flat' as the SB ones, but hey, who puts tweeters on a big flat IEC baffle anyway?? Edited June 19, 2023 by BioBrian 1
Addicted to music Posted June 19, 2023 Author Posted June 19, 2023 Im looking at something like this: https://www.wagneronline.com.au/sb-acoustics-speaker-kits/featured-brands-audio/audio-speakers-pa/ara1100-93903/1006292/pd/
THOMO Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, BioBrian said: That's the one. I haven't done a direct comparison, but I have a couple of the top Be Scanspeak tweeters running too. Not as 'flat' as the SB ones, but hey, who puts tweeters on a big flat IEC baffle anyway?? Troels Gravesen does.
Addicted to music Posted June 19, 2023 Author Posted June 19, 2023 Or hundreds of dollars more and you get this if budget permits: https://www.wagneronline.com.au/speaker-kits-sb-acoustics/loudspeakers-kits/audio-speakers-pa/rinjani2100-93878/1006303/pd/
BioBrian Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 10 hours ago, THOMO said: Troels Gravesen does. Yes, he does large and small baffles for the SB tweeters. It'd be great to be able to compare these designs: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/FUSION-22.htm and http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBA-741.htm With some drivers you can get a flatter response with an open flat baffle, but sometimes it just doesn't sound good. The very small ones can sound more dynamic and clear.
davewantsmoore Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, BioBrian said: It'd be great to be able to compare these designs: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/FUSION-22.htm and http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBA-741.htm 5 minutes ago, BioBrian said: open flat baffle, but sometimes it just doesn't sound good. The biggest difference with these both, is the directivity (frequency response vs angle) once their on-axial responses is normalised. The 3 are super-significantly different. It's something that TG has never put much importance on. 10 hours ago, Addicted to music said: Or hundreds of dollars more and you get this If you are looking for a big (at least "not small") size and big $ (subjective, I guess) .... SBA speaker build I would have recommended Helios (by Shadvi / Bagby) .... but it seems like it's NLA or out of stock in kit form. There is the Helios CM also (less $, almost all the performance) but I don't know about the availability of the waveguide any longer. FWIW... IMVHO, the SBA kit designs are not great (ok, but).
THOMO Posted June 19, 2023 Posted June 19, 2023 The SBA kits are missing the potential of their own drivers because they are narrow baffle /low sensitivity and wasting the higher sensitivity potential of their best tweeters.Gravesen seems to have grasped that potential with his wider baffle designs incorporating highish sensitivity Satori tweeters and pro audio mids and woofers.They are proving to be his most popular designs.
davewantsmoore Posted June 20, 2023 Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, THOMO said: they are narrow baffle /low sensitivity and wasting the higher sensitivity potential of their best tweeters.Gravesen seems to have grasped that potential with his wider baffle designs incorporating highish sensitivity Satori tweeters and pro audio mids and woofers.They are proving to be his most popular designs. I tend to agree with this.... but I think it is a mistake to think that the sensitivity is audible more than the directivity. The high efficiency is no doubt v. important in the lower frequencies, ie. where you can run out of it .... (but then we're not talking about tweeters any longer). Obviously the directivity (issues?!) of the wider designs ('cept perhaps the ones with the horn, but I still think not enough attention paid to polars) depends very much on how you use them. In a more traditional "monitor" type of layout (close sitting, speakers in from side walls) ... it can be a lot less of importance. OTOH, I was going to say in a previous post (recommending in the Satori waveguide) .... it is insane to me that more SBA drivers do not come with a waveguide (they can do it, evidently), and that SB do not use the WG tweeter in any of their kits.... while not saying they should do wide baffles, their narrow speakers would be improved (potentially) quite a lot by this WG.
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