Two CD Transports--Different Side of Speakers

[Kent10]

2 hours ago, bob_m_54 said:

From the other post, the I2S pinout diagrams show that the default settings of the DIP switches in the Jay's gives the data and LR Clock signals in reverse polarity, to what the Gustard is expecting.

 

Thanks for marking the differences, Bob.  Perhaps I should ask the distributor in the US.

[Addicted to music]

5 hours ago, Kent10 said:

The phase setting on the R26 is set to "non-inverted."  Changing this setting to "inverted" did not change invert the channels on either the Jay's or the Sony.

 

some devices need a power cycle for the new changes to occur.   However I’d be re checking the L and R connection on everything you have and use to ensure it’s all correct,  I’m taking physical and soft connections 
 

5 hours ago, Kent10 said:

Thanks for marking the differences, Bob.  Perhaps I should ask the distributor in the US.

 

that’s what I’ll be doing from the beginning 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Addicted to music

[Kent10]

25 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

some devices need a power cycle for the new changes to occur.   However I’d be re checking the L and R connection on everything you have and use to ensure it’s all correct,  I’m taking physical and soft connections 
 

 

 

Thanks for the idea.  It was worth a try but when I do a power cycle it reverts back to "non-inverted."

[bob_m_54]

Any update on this Kent? Did you try switching the dip switches to supply correct polarity to the Gustard?

[Kent10]

Hi Bob,

I haven't done that yet but plan on writing to the US distributor this weekend to see if he thinks I should and what the result will be.  I'll post an update once I find out what he thinks.  Thanks!

[Kent10]

Hi Bob,

I heard back from our Jay's distributor.  He said the Denafrips DACs also have slightly different pinouts and he doesn't hear a difference if he makes changes.  He said if mine is working now, I may not hear a difference.  Or maybe I will.  He doesn't know.  If it was easy for me to do I would try it right away.  But the transport weighs nearly 50 pounds and is not easy for me to take in and out.  Maybe after I know the sound better and have used the new cable and CD puck I am waiting for.  I might have to move my system out with the thicker cable so that would be an opportunity to change the switches.  I also should keep researching this to see what differences those switches will make.  I am not concerned about the reverse of the speakers.  I think the transport is actually correct because I have tried the same CD in my computer and it was the same as the transport.  Oddly, today I did some streaming through the DAC and the speakers were reversed again, just like my Sony CDP. 

 

Thanks for your help with this.  If you have an idea about what changes would occur if I make the switch, please let me know.  Looking at the diagrams I don't really understand what all that means.  Would I just switch #1 and 5 that you have circled.  And #7 is circled on the Gustard so I don't understand that.  I don't know what an LR Clock is but I will look that up.  Sounds important though.  Maybe I should change these switches .

[bob_m_54]

Did you send him the picture of both connectors, so he could see what polarity the Gustard was expecting?

 

If your diagrams are correct for your models, then the data from the Jay's is the opposite polarity to what the Gustard is expecting. What this means as far as sound is concerned I don't know, as the bits will still be read, but on the opposite transition to what they normally would. As for the LRCK signals, I think it will switch the L & R channels.

 

You will need to switch all eight switches to opposite what they are now. ie switches 1, 3, 5, 7 (all the B switches) to OFF, and 2, 4, 6, 8 (all the A switches) to ON.

 

As for the Jay's distributor, he may not understand data transmission, so may not understand the difference.

 

To me, it just makes sense to send the correct polarity data.

 

Edit: Also, as far as the Sony CDP is concerned, I find it very hard to believe that such an obvious error as the L & R channels reversed, could even get through to design stage of the device, let alone go to production that way. It's not as if Sony are a pissant company with very low quality equipment.

 

2nd Edit: I forgot to add that my highlights were just to make it more obvious of what I was talking about.. ie for both Data & LRCK signals, neg going to pos, and pos going to neg etc...

Edited September 18, 2023 by bob_m_54
still more

[Kent10]

Yes, I did send both pictures to the distributor.  He also does all the repairs for Jay's in the US but you are probably correct that he doesn't know about the data transmission.  When I get the new cable, I will more than likely have to move my whole stereo out so that would be a good time to change the switches.  

 

I hope the diagrams are correct.  The Gustard looks generic for their entire line but I am not sure.  I got them from here (scroll down) https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/gustard-r26-discrete-r2r-decoder-with-streamer-renderer-pcm768-dsd512-bluetooth-xmos-xu216-high-performance-audio-decoder

And here page 6 https://4350743f-0a94-4a46-a537-ad92bf83d24b.usrfiles.com/ugd/435074_aab3c639c47a471ca8a8cb2c3349ce8c.pdf 

 

[muon*]

If the the Jay's default setting is as shown here It's same.

 

data + is 1 on both, data - is 3 on both and so on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by muon*

[Kent10]

I don't understand both +/- of #1 and 3 but 10 and 12 appear the same as the Gustard.  So switching 5 and 7 would that also make 10 and 12 different. There are only 8 switches if I understand.  Thanks.

[muon*]

5 minutes ago, Kent10 said:

I don't understand both +/- of #1 and 3 but 10 and 12 appear the same as the Gustard.  So switching 5 and 7 would that also make 10 and 12 different. There are only 8 switches if I understand.  Thanks.

No, the first symbol takes precedence for how they depict it on the first image.

 

Where it indicates +/- it is +, and where it is -/+ it is -

 

I would be very surprised if Jay's as shown isn't the default.

Edited September 18, 2023 by muon*

[Kent10]

I see.  Thanks for solving that.

[muon*]

If any question still, or if you need confirmation I suggest asking Jay's directly.

https://www.jays-audio.com/contact-us

Edited September 18, 2023 by muon*

[muon*]

That's how I interpret it anyway, I may have it wrong, so contact Jay's and ask if the default i2s pin outs are correct for connection to the Gustard DAC.

Edited September 18, 2023 by muon*
typo

[Kent10]

Thanks Ian.  It would be good to confirm with Jay's and maybe they will know what changes will occur with a switch change.  This is what I wrote to Jay's.

 

Hi,
I just bought a CDT3 MK3 from Todd at Tek in the US.  Loving the CDT3.  Thanks!
I have it connected to the Gustard R26 DAC and it is working but I wonder if the default i2s pin outs are correct on the CDT3.  For a diagram of the Gustard R26 pin outs please see this page and scroll down.  https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/gustard-r26-discrete-r2r-decoder-with-streamer-renderer-pcm768-dsd512-bluetooth-xmos-xu216-high-performance-audio-decoder  
Do I need to make any switch changes?  And which ones please?  In what way should I expect any changes when made?  Thanks very much, Kent

[bob_m_54]

13 hours ago, muon* said:

No, the first symbol takes precedence for how they depict it on the first image.

 

Where it indicates +/- it is +, and where it is -/+ it is -

 

I would be very surprised if Jay's as shown isn't the default.

 

No, the +/- denotes that it can be plus or minus, depending on the switch positions, and that the corresponding input needs to be the opposite. So you get a + and a - for each input, and not + + or - -...

 

 

 

At the top of the Jay's connector it says "Default: 1357 (B) ON" and consequently A is off.

With (B)  switch 1 ON, DATA- is fed to pin 16 of the DIP switch, which in turn is connected to pin 1 or the I2S connector.

 

You don't want DATA- on pin 1 of the I2S connector, you want DATA+ on pin 1, to match the Gustard. To get DATA+ on pin 1 of the I2S, you need to select (B) switch 1 to OFF, and (A) switch 2 to ON. This will feed DATA+ from pin 2 of the DIP, through to pin 15, which connects to pin 1 of the I2S connector...

 

And the same for the other seven switches....

Edited September 19, 2023 by bob_m_54

[bob_m_54]

13 hours ago, Kent10 said:

It would be good to confirm with Jay's

Your diagrams already confirm it.

 

Edit: here is a simplified drawing of the connection to pin 1 of the Jay's I2S connector, to get the correct polarity for the data. Note, this is not the default setting.

 

 

This also applies to the rest of the switches...

Edited September 19, 2023 by bob_m_54
more

[muon*]

Jay's will tell Kent how it is, and if he needs to change anything..

[Kent10]

Bob, you have been correct about it all.  Of course, you knew that.  But I am still trying to understand how this works and will read your explanations.  I really appreciate it.  I like to understand why I am doing something and how it works.  This is what Weng Fai from Jay's had to say.  And I have to say I am very impressed with his service.  Very detailed and quicker than I would ever expect.

 

"I'd like to address the I2S configuration pin between Gustard and Jays. It appears that the DATA and LRCK polarity may have swapped between the positive and negative. 

 

In this case, you can make the necessary adjustments by changing the DIP switch inside the CDT3. Please turn OFF DIP 1, 3, 5, 7, and turn ON DIP 2, 4, 6, 8. We recommend turning off the CDT3 and disconnecting the I2S cable before making these changes. After the configuration, lower the speaker volume before reconnecting the CDT3 to avoid any incorrect I2S configuration that may damage your speakers. I hope this information proves helpful."

 

So this weekend I will take my system down, move it out to fit a new cable in there and then take the cover off the CDT3 and make the switch changes.  I still don't understand what effect changing the polarity will have on the sound, if any, but it sounds like this must be done and it will be very interesting to hear if there are any changes.  I don't know the consequences of not making the changes but perhaps it is best not to find out .

 

Thanks again Bob and Ian.
 

[muon*]

Good support from Jay's

Edited September 19, 2023 by muon*
typo

[Kent10]

I can see pin #1 on the Jay's and Gustard are different and that making the switch will match them.  But what about #7.  It is LRCK+ on the Jay's and LRCK/DSDR+ on the Gustard.  Are these the same?  They are both +.  So why am changing this one?  Or do they always have to alternate.  In other words 1,3,5,7 either on or off and 2,4,6,8 always the opposite of 1,3,5,7.  Still trying to figure out how this works.

[bob_m_54]

2 hours ago, Kent10 said:

I can see pin #1 on the Jay's and Gustard are different and that making the switch will match them.  But what about #7.  It is LRCK+ on the Jay's and LRCK/DSDR+ on the Gustard.  Are these the same?  They are both +.  So why am changing this one?  Or do they always have to alternate.  In other words 1,3,5,7 either on or off and 2,4,6,8 always the opposite of 1,3,5,7.  Still trying to figure out how this works.

If you follow all the inputs to the Jay's I2S connector, you will see they are all opposite what they should be. Pin 7 on the Jay's I2S connector is LRCK NEG by default, as it comes from the 5 switch being ON,  and the 6 switch off.

 

Look at the above diagram for I2S pin one, and it's the same for all of the signal pairs...

 

remember all switches on the (B) inputs are ON by default, so :

 

Jay's I2S Default                  Gustard Requires

pin 1 - NEG ----------------------------> POS

pin 3 - POS ----------------------------> NEG

pin 7 - NEG ----------------------------> POS

pin 9 - POS ----------------------------> NEG

 

 

I'm sorry, but I don't know how to make it any plainer...

 

EDIT: sorry I should have read all of your post... My bad..

 

Quote

"In other words 1,3,5,7 either on or off and 2,4,6,8 always the opposite of 1,3,5,7.  Still trying to figure out how this works."

 

Yes

Edited September 19, 2023 by bob_m_54

[bob_m_54]

2 hours ago, muon* said:

Jay's will tell Kent how it is, and if he needs to change anything..

Well if you and he can't see what the situation is, they may have to... It's pretty plain though..

[bob_m_54]

2 hours ago, muon* said:

God support from Jay's

God help me, more like it... LOL

[muon*]

7 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

Well if you and he can't see what the situation is, they may have to... It's pretty plain though..

Lucky we have you.