Soundproof colourbond shed

[JeremyJ]

Hi, I have a 12 x 6 colourbond (steel) shed that I’m wanting to turn into a studio, home theatre and entertainment space. I am considering a range of options including wooden stud, with gyprock on both sides, with batts between the studs and between the steel outer walls and the first gyprock sheet. I have a friend who’s encouraging of refrigeration panels, but the steel outer doesn’t appeal so they would need to have another wall in front. Anyway I’m hoping to get any advice from experienced people. I just want to get it right first time and would hate to get complaints from the neighbours the first night of music and beers with  mates. Any help appreciated.

Cheers

Jeremy

[Benje]

Foil Board could help.

[aertex]

a room of great opportunity for sure. Note that foam refrig panels are very flammable.

[JeremyJ]

23 minutes ago, Benje said:

Foil Board could help.

24 minutes ago, Benje said:

Foil Board could help.

I checked this stuff out and am thinking I could get a better soundproofing result cheaper by using thicker batts. 

[JeremyJ]

7 minutes ago, aertex said:

a room of great opportunity for sure. Note that foam refrig panels are very flammable.

Yeah I was considering them as I could do the whole shed for about $3000 but they d still have to put stud in front for hanging stuff and the fact the shed still wouldn’t be sound proof with the fridge panel alone. Metal walls doesn’t appeal either. I think the double insulation, double gyprock idea I suggested in the post could be my best option.

[playdough]

Nice shed

I've just done an elevated timber house re clad and line out, tried to soundproof it as well as possible, for minimal cost.

First thing it (your shed) will need is a condensation barrier (must), would use a glass/foil blanket or foil board, so cladding off and "sark the outside of the frame/roof"

 

Personally just used for the first time a double sided foil foam board before re cladding (photo) , was surprisingly good acoustic/insulation barrier on it's own.

 

Inside this non permeable layer, acoustic bats, which have much better acoustic barrier properties than just a thick bat and IMHO worth the money, particularly on the outer walls. They are just "heavier and better" Thick bats are ok, but heavy ones are much better.

 

Stud walls and double plaster, nothing fancy. You might get another 5 dB down with fancy glue and rubber isolation to plaster fittings, maybe. It's a shed  

 In the sound lounge above the listening area, use perforated plaster if you can afford it, especially a 2.7m ceiling.  Wish I did, because I've used it in the past and now swear by it being well worth the money, even if only 4 standard sheets directly above the listening area.

 

You should get at least 15dB drop through the treated insulated wall, however it will leak very low bass, if you can generate lots of 30Hz ish bass, it will leak.

 

Double plaster has a caveat, it's excellent at sound proofing but will provide terrible acoustics inside., shockingly bad  

 

If you don't use minimum perforated plaster expect a shocking clap echo and the work radio will not be intelligible from 10m, just terrible echo.

 

It  will necessitate  surface mount absorb panels, most likely, which is a harder more expensive job than the perf. I'll guarantee that.

 

My lounge, just finished, Im even contemplating re hanging the ceiling in perf plaster (yea really !) as I'm not in love with the 40mm thin surface treatment panels, they are ok perfect in application, but I'm still on the fence for aesthetics.

 

I hope that was helpful.

I'm about to build a similar thing a little smaller, pick up the new AL DG windows'door next week. Up from ground job, suspended floor.

 

Nice shed, envious. 

 

 

 

[playdough]

Perf plaster is the $hitt
Not fun to put up.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by playdough

[playdough]

On 02/10/2023 at 3:41 PM, Benje said:

Foil Board could help.

Yep, 5mm foilboard underfloor insulation, if you ask at Bunnings, and a 30m roll of silver duct tape.

 

[almikel]

Hi Jeremy,

 

checkout here for the basics of soundproofing https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-101 

But they have loads of info on their site - all worth a read!

 

@playdough's advice on moisture control is very important - and not covered at all in the link above. A layer of Anti-Con (Sarking with fiberglass attached) next to the tin outer layer would suffice...or just sarking alone...it's too late in the evening to ponder the thermodynamics involved

 

On 03/10/2023 at 4:42 PM, playdough said:

Inside this non permeable layer, acoustic bats, which have much better acoustic barrier properties than just a thick bat and IMHO worth the money, particularly on the outer walls. They are just "heavier and better" Thick bats are ok, but heavy ones are much better.

Be cautious of any batts labelled "acoustic" - you pay a premium for these.

The only things that matter for porous absorption is the Gas Flow Resistivity (roughly equivalent to density), and the size (length, width and depth).

Just source the lowest cost batts in the density and thickness you want, in the material you want - fiberglass is fine if it's covered (eg behind Gyprock), polyester is more expensive but doesn't shed fibres - I only use poly for "in room" traps these days, but I'd be happy with fiberglass batts behind Gyprock.

 

On 03/10/2023 at 4:42 PM, playdough said:

Stud walls and double plaster, nothing fancy. You might get another 5 dB down with fancy glue and rubber isolation to plaster fittings, maybe. It's a shed  

For sound proofing you definitely want 2 layers of Gyprock.

If isolation/soundproofing plus great "in room bass" is the goal, I would strongly recommend using Greenglue between Gyprock layers, and using offset studs or whisper clips.

The fancy "Greenglue" is expensive - but it adds compliance between your layers of Gyprock to soak up "in room" bass and reduce bass passing through to your neighbours.

Using Greenglue between double plaster will reduce the amount of "in room" treatment you'll need to manage your "in room" bass following room construction. 

 

Achieving great isolation/sound proofing and great "in room" sound at the same time is a challenge - as they work against each other.

You can achieve both with good design.

 

cheers,

Mike

[acg]

Depending where you are you will need council permission to line your shed...something to do with permitted living spaces.  Don't ask me how I know this...

[JeremyJ]

7 hours ago, acg said:

Depending where you are you will need council permission to line your shed...something to do with permitted living spaces.  Don't ask me how I know this...

Hi yeah I'm getting conflicting reports on this. I'm just north of Brisbane. It's a consideration for me, but I'm also concerned about extra costs and hassle if the council are involved. Anything I should know about their processes and issues that may come up?

[acg]

@JeremyJwe lined a mates shed because it was so hot inside and because it improved the feel of the space considering how it was used.  We did it shortly after the shed was built and had the work completed before the final building inspection so the inspector became aware.  Had to cut more than a dozen holes in the painted plasterboard for the inspector to verify the work was completed properly otherwise it would all have to be removed.  Luckily council eventually accepted that the shed was not going to be used as a granny flat or residence or living quarters and accepted the lining, but it was a tight run thing and we felt a little fortunate at the end of the episode.

 

Had we waited to line the shed till the final building inspection was complete the council would not have become involved at that point until possibly when the house is eventually sold.

[JeremyJ]

49 minutes ago, acg said:

@JeremyJwe lined a mates shed because it was so hot inside and because it improved the feel of the space considering how it was used.  We did it shortly after the shed was built and had the work completed before the final building inspection so the inspector became aware.  Had to cut more than a dozen holes in the painted plasterboard for the inspector to verify the work was completed properly otherwise it would all have to be removed.  Luckily council eventually accepted that the shed was not going to be used as a granny flat or residence or living quarters and accepted the lining, but it was a tight run thing and we felt a little fortunate at the end of the episode.

 

Had we waited to line the shed till the final building inspection was complete the council would not have become involved at that point until possibly when the house is eventually sold.

Thanks for the heads up. Was there much costs involved in getting the approval? My shed was lived in by the previous owner after his cabin was knocked down and the house built (2005). I don’t think he would have got approval to live in there, but it served a purpose while the house was built. My aim to have a creative space with a mix multi media and vintage HiFi, pool table and bar. It has a bathroom that will be gutted and I’ll either replace the small pot belly with a larger fireplace or just rely on the dual cycle I’ll be installing. Obviously a fireplace would comprise the soundproof so as much as it would be nice to have I think it’s a step too far. I think the foil board stuck to the inside of the walls, then a small cavity, then a insulted stud wall gyprocked on both sides will provide the level of soundproofing I’m requiring. The remaining question being what’s a cheap and effective option to fill the stud. I’ll do the same with the ceiling, following the pitch of the roof. What to do with the concrete floors is under consideration also. There are those resin treatments, but the cost is pretty steep. The alternative is to just paint. I’ll be getting a lot of rugs also to get those warm vibes going. 

[Hilltop Hippy]

Its unlikely that frame is designed/engineered to support the weight of any linings. Two things, first, as mentioned, you'll need to remove the cladding and put a moisture barrier in, second, you'll need to frame out new walls (and ceiling) to support  the lining ("room in room" - you're going to lose ceiling height).

 

If it were me, I'd just start again from scratch. Maybe even build another shed. You basically have to pull that one apart to make it work. Does the slab have a moisture barrier under it? I wouldn't be building a "domestic" room in there unless it does

[rantan]

3 minutes ago, Hilltop Hippy said:

 

If it were me, I'd just start again from scratch. Maybe even build another shed

 

100%

 

it really could be just too complex and more expensive to bring it up to standard, than building new from scratch with your personal, clean sheet design.

 

Some years back I looked into the same type of situation and by the time we had factored in all the changes, there was very little ( if any ) difference in costs versus starting with a clean sheet and building new.

 

Obviously there are site and other factors that will vary from state-to-state and different council laws but I think you may be pleasantly surprised starting afresh.

[almikel]

On 06/10/2023 at 4:58 PM, Hilltop Hippy said:

If it were me, I'd just start again from scratch

 

On 06/10/2023 at 5:12 PM, rantan said:

but I think you may be pleasantly surprised starting afresh.

OMG the nanny state we live in - such a substantial structure that may not be able to be utilised as @JeremyJ would like  ...what a dreadful waste that would be !

 

On 02/10/2023 at 1:23 PM, JeremyJ said:

 

On 06/10/2023 at 4:58 PM, Hilltop Hippy said:

Its unlikely that frame is designed/engineered to support the weight of any linings.

You're likely correct - but I'm sure it could...

...the walls could easily manage 2 layers of Gyprock and greenglue with insulation/anticon...

...looking at the triangulation in the existing roof trusses, they could likely also manage the weight of 2 layers of Gyprock and greenglue with insulation/anticon plus the additional U channel steel for rafters and battens...maybe additional trusses are needed?

 

If @JeremyJ doesn't care about sound escaping through the roof the existing structure would easily support a single layer of Gyprock for the ceiling (plus additional U channel steel for rafters and battens to support the Gyprock) with fluffy insulation above.

 

I hate the idea of not using a perfectly functional structure - if you have kids that watch "Bob the Builder", his words resonate, "reduce, re-use, recycle"...

 

...I get that "renovating" can easily get more expensive per m^2 than "starting from scratch"...but that shed looks like a great starting position.

 

On 06/10/2023 at 2:56 PM, JeremyJ said:

It has a bathroom that will be gutted

I would strongly recommend keeping the bathroom - very useful, and costly to re-add later.

 

On 06/10/2023 at 2:56 PM, JeremyJ said:

I’ll either replace the small pot belly with a larger fireplace or just rely on the dual cycle I’ll be installing

You live just north of Brisbane - the reverse cycle A/C will be sufficient in the depths of Brisbane winters  

A fireplace/pot belly just screams "dwelling" rather than "external space" - I'd dump that - put a fire pit outside.

 

On 06/10/2023 at 2:56 PM, JeremyJ said:

then a insulted stud wall gyprocked on both sides will provide the level of soundproofing I’m requiring

I disagree - check the links out I posted above.

A better approach for soundproofing is a double layer of Gyprock with greenglue between using Whisper clips or double studs.

 

On 06/10/2023 at 2:56 PM, JeremyJ said:

The remaining question being what’s a cheap and effective option to fill the stud.

The cheapest fluffy insulation you can source to fill the space.

Your call whether you use poly or fiberglass - it's behind Gyprock so it doesn't matter.

As I mentioned above, any insulation labelled "acoustic" will carry a cost premium.

 

I haven't bought batts in years. I prefer poly batts - back then Autex Greenstuf poly batts were always good value when I shopped around.

 

Any batt will do that fills the space - find the cheapest.

 

cheers,

Mike

[chrapladm]

Any progress updates on your shed transformation?

 

I am transforming a 9m x 6m shed. Its what I have and I cant start over. I have only lined my vertical walls with a vapor barrier. I wish I had known about this when I first built the shed. It would have been a lot easier that applying it after words. PLUS it would not have any potential vapor leaks. I will be using closed cell foam on my ceiling and vertical joins/corners. Its not great for sound absorption but great for thermal leaks and thats what I care about for this layer.

 

I am thinking about building a metal stud wall and using decoupling mounts to the existing wall purlins or decoupling mounts on the purlins and then furring channels. I have large gaps between purlins, so I am thinking the stud wall will be stronger.

 

Unless I can figure out how to mount metal studs across my ceiling without adding weight to the purlins the most weight I can go will be maybe two layers of gyprock and GG. Dont know if 25kg/m is ok or if 18kg/m is what I should be shooting for.

 

Sorry to babble on but I look forward in reading your progress to see what I can learn for my own project.

[almikel]

On 02/02/2024 at 8:41 PM, chrapladm said:

I am transforming a 9m x 6m shed.

what are you trying to achieve?

Sound proofing/sound isolation for sound entering/exiting the shed is a different goal to achieving great "in shed" audio...

...and unfortunately if you want both, they can work against each other

 

If you want both I would strongly recommend reading all the content on this site starting with the basics here: https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-101

 

If all you want is great "in shed" sound and don't care about the sound leaking out, then line the shed with ordinary Gyprock with fluffy insulation behind,

 

Low bass will pass straight through the walls/ceiling - ie not be contained within the room, bouncing around taking ages to decay requiring large traps to manage.

 

Leaky rooms require less treatment to manage the bass frequencies.

 

IME all rooms benefit from absorption working 150Hz and above - but they're "less huge" compared to treatment working <150Hz.

 

cheers,

Mike

 

 

 

[specka]

Hello,

I did something similar recently, although I didn't use the entire shed I used 1/3 of it. The shed is steel frame colourbond, 12x7m. I framed out a 5.1 x 4.0m room at the rear, and followed the pitch of the roof with the internal ceiling which I thought would help by removing at least one set of parallel walls.

 

I made huge mistakes, by somehow making the ultimate rookie error that I was actually really well aware of - mixing up soundproofing with acoustic treatment. My priority was acoustic performance vs soundproofing. Now, as you seek soundproofing you might actually be ok with some of this. I used Fyrchek gyprock as it is very comparable to SoundChek or whatever its called, in terms of mass/density, at a lower price. I cannot stress enough how important it is to isolate the studs/rafters from the metal structure. I laminated all the beams, purlins etc with framing pine but I didnt create a void between them, instead screwing/gluing the pine direct to the metal, and affixed the lining directly to this. The result of this with the very rigid fyrcheck was the most insane metallic ringing echo when you clap. It literally was one of the worst echoes I've heard in any room, much less a room that was supposed to be used for some sort of critical listening.

So yes, the number one takeaway was isolating the two structures is so important, and i think especially with the metal frame of the shed. Echo is one thing but when it has a metallic sibilance its extremely unpleasant. I was amazed that it could permeate back through the insulation and the heavy gyprock but sure enough. I think if creating a gap between the shed wall/ceiling frame is too hard then at least doing the 'green glue sandwich' on the lining board is worth a go...or find a way to do both.

 

I have actually managed to tame it through the use of endless acoustic panels at much expense, and have managed to create an excellent sounding room albeit with some work to do to resolve a persistent 'hole' in the low end.

 

Other than that, I used acoustic rockwool insulation, I clad the outside of the internal stud partitions with Magnesium Oxide board. 

 

 

[specka]

On 03/10/2023 at 6:03 PM, playdough said:

Perf plaster is the $hitt
Not fun to put up.

 

 

 

This was on my list for ages and then somehow I deviated/got lost in the process. I really think this would have been the best choice for my ceiling. Now instead I've got yet another box of Primacoustics panels to install. 

[playdough]

On 12/02/2024 at 11:19 AM, specka said:

 

This was on my list for ages and then somehow I deviated/got lost in the process. I really think this would have been the best choice for my ceiling. Now instead I've got yet another box of Primacoustics panels to install. 

If I had a clean slate (empty shed) Simply would not hesitate to use some sort of perforated plaster for the ceiling, such a no brainer. Otherwise the installation will/would need some sort of surface treatment, added work and expense, measurements, head scratching and so on.

[almikel]

On 12/02/2024 at 9:58 AM, specka said:

I made huge mistakes, by somehow making the ultimate rookie error that I was actually really well aware of - mixing up soundproofing with acoustic treatment.

bummer - tough to achieve both - and not much good now to say follow the advice at https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/    

On 12/02/2024 at 9:58 AM, specka said:

I have actually managed to tame it through the use of endless acoustic panels at much expense, and have managed to create an excellent sounding room albeit with some work to do to resolve a persistent 'hole' in the low end.

Your room looks fabulous ! - and I'm glad to hear you have an excellent sounding room...albeit with some work to do...but don't we all...start a new thread with some measurements and more photos of your amazing room, and the brains trust at SNA will provide input on fixing that hole in your bottom end.

 

On 13/02/2024 at 10:28 AM, playdough said:

If I had a clean slate (empty shed) Simply would not hesitate to use some sort of perforated plaster for the ceiling, such a no brainer.

Hi playdough,

 

What acoustic benefits do you see from perforated plaster vs plain plaster? 

Why is perforated plaster a "no brainer" for the ceiling compared to any of the walls?

 

You being a fan of MLV - another well respected poster here on SNA I've not seen in a while, @svenr, covered a ceiling in flooring vinyl to make the ceiling a large MLV bass trap, and it measured very well.

 

Ordinary gyprock mounted on furring channel and whisper clips with fluffy insulation behind will operate as a large membrane bass trap for lower frequencies.

 

Is it mid/high absorption you're recommending perforated plaster for?

 

Mike