AppleTV "X" Owners & Discussion Thread

[Guest]

OK you guys sold me. My order is in  

Damn this thread! Haha

[Xymox]

I have not mentioned that I used a specific set of video clips in a play list as reference to do development. I also have files I play as well, but, I made a playlist that works well to test things and do ABs.

 

This playlist of 7 clips covers pretty much everything.

 

What I do is all about ACCURACY. Pantone like rendering of colors and making it all look REAL... So these clips are good references for that. Blacks, color, resoultion, 3D., gamma, just everything is covered in these clips. If they look boring to you, they are not..

 

 

Edited January 25, 2024 by Xymox

[Xymox]

Wow... I spent the last few hours watching 400Mbps files playing off my Qnap thru the AppleTV X. VERY impressive. I was using InFuse Pro and these were .mkv.. I had seen high bit rate material before using a professional app used in post production called frames.io .. But I have now discovered the ATVX can play really serious files right off my local server.

 

While obviously this material is very limited, this does mean the ATVX leaves Oppo UHD and things like Klidescape in the dust in terms of bitrate. BUT AGAIN, you can't exactly download 400 Mbps files of your fav movie, hahaha..

 

I was more curious if this worked and if it worked well. It seems to.. Lots of demo/test clips you can download. This site has a bunch of files to test with as just one of MANY examples.

https://www.larmoire.info/jellyfish/

 

I do not know yet what all CODECS and such are supported on Infuse/VLC. The files I have tried all worked.

 

I also had Infuse index 21,000 movies off a UPnP server. It took a few days, but, it did seem to handle it ok. Seems to have found art and sorted everything.. Impressivly it only took up 721 MB of disc space on the ATVX. That was my real interest was to see how much space all the meta data and art took up.

 

VLC is pretty buggy and would hang trying to index all that. Infuse is just much better operation and its GUI is way better.

 

I had been told the ATVX could work as a local file playback device, but I had not tried it myself. Turns out, yea it sure can.

 

Sadly, Infuse does not seem to work for music ? It wont index my music files.

[powerav]

I’m using Emby media server, seems to be pretty good. Great for music video concerts stored on nas 

[HumanMedia]

8 minutes ago, Xymox said:

I also had Infuse index 21,000 movies off a UPnP server. It took a few days, but, it did seem to handle it ok. Seems to have found art and sorted everything.. Impressivly it only took up 721 MB of disc space on the ATVX. That was my real interest was to see how much space all the meta data and art took up.

 

Sadly, Infuse does not seem to work for music ? It wont index my music files.

Yeah love Infuse. The killer app for the ATV IMO. And its doesn't need dedicated server software, just point it at a network share. I think there are a couple of versions of the Infuse app with different levels of codec support. It does play audio only, if its in a video file or ISO format, but not as separate FLAC/WAV audio only formats. It would be truly great if it supported multichannel DSD and SACD  .iso as well...

(feature request?)

[Xymox]

Yes you mentioned that before. I just downloaded it, but, looks like I gotta fiddle a bit and figure it out. Not sure it just does UPnP ? Its asking for a server but has a port number.

 

I will look how to use it online, I am sure there are TONS of articals..

 

Interesting using it as a local rendering device to play stuff off my local server.

[Xymox]

3 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

Yeah love Infuse. The killer app for the ATV IMO. And its doesn't need dedicated server software, just point it at a network share. I think there are a couple of versions of the Infuse app with different levels of codec support. It does play audio only, if its in a video file or ISO format, but not as separate FLAC/WAV audio only formats. It would be truly great if it supported multichannel DSD and SACD  .iso as well...

(feature request?)

 

Yep, real easy to use. It immd saw my UPnP Qnap and I picked folders to index and away it went. ALl that indexing got the ATV warm

 

Yes InFuse seems really stable. While i disagreed with some of its metadata retrieval and sorting, it did a great job.

 

Yes I bought Pro and I went to play a DTS X test file and it prompted me to install the DTS plug-in. This was free with my pro upgrade.

[Xymox]

I get asked about the best HDMI cable A LOT.. WHile every system is different, so far from what i have seen and what ATVX clients have told me after a bunch of AB, there is one that seems to be standing out..

 

First.. 18G cables are the way to go. The 48G cables seem to not do as well. Price is NOT a indicator of quality I have found having played with a LOT of VERY pricey HDMI cables. While there may be some really good cables that are expensive out there, most of what I have tested myself there has been one that has beat most out..

 

Blue Jeans Series FE

 

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/sfespec.pdf

[TP1]

16 hours ago, Xymox said:

I get asked about the best HDMI cable A LOT.. WHile every system is different, so far from what i have seen and what ATVX clients have told me after a bunch of AB, there is one that seems to be standing out..

 

 

Which cable  to use is one of the perennial questions. I haven't tried Blue jeans but I have  tried a number of different HDMI cables including   specialty items.  For me, I cant go past Fibre Optic. I use this Fibrrr  short optical  cable with excellent results.  https://fibbrcable.com/products/fibbr-8k-hdmi-2-1-cable-48gbps-certified-ultra-high-speed-hdmi-cable. 

They also have a more expensive premium cable https://fibbrcable.com/products/fibbr-hdmi-2-1-8k-uhd-video-cable-pure-3-3rd-generation-pure-series.   

[Xymox]

16 hours ago, TP1 said:

 

Which cable  to use is one of the perennial questions. I haven't tried Blue jeans but I have  tried a number of different HDMI cables including   specialty items.  For me, I cant go past Fibre Optic. I use this Fibrrr  short optical  cable with excellent results.  https://fibbrcable.com/products/fibbr-8k-hdmi-2-1-cable-48gbps-certified-ultra-high-speed-hdmi-cable. 

They also have a more expensive premium cable https://fibbrcable.com/products/fibbr-hdmi-2-1-8k-uhd-video-cable-pure-3-3rd-generation-pure-series.   

 

Hmmm... There are good reasons to galvanicly isolate the TV?Projector from other gear. It also makes technical sense as it puts the HDMI driver chip right close to the sink device. BUT. It adds noise to the HDMI along with phase noise and you can see the results of this using good test equipment looking at the HDMI signal. Its a trade off. For long runs, say to a projector, it makes sense I would think.

 

EVERY SYSTEM is different and has different responses to these 300 megahertz TDMS clock  signals with really tiny voltages. Think of HDMI as moving coil phono level signals but 1 million times higher in frequency. This stuff is at the very edge of our science. NO joke, EVERYTHING affects the signal.

 

So yes I can see a conversion to fiber could work better in some systems then using pure copper. Under *ideal* conditions a pure copper path is cleaner. BUT no system is ideal.

 

Belden has maybe some of the best wire engineering on earth. So it makes sense they can make a very technically accurate HDMI.

 

The trick with HDMI is that unlike audio, its not about the materials. Its not the purity of the conductors, or the insulation. Its very much the precision of manufacturing the wire. Keeping a impedance when dealing with 1 Ghz bandwidth is crazy hard. Hyper precision in wire diameter, insulation thickness, twist accuracy, shielding distances, filler materials. You need consistency of all that to a insane precision. Materials are of course important, but its how these materials work at 1Ghz bandwidths that is key.

 

Terminations and connectors are insanely important.

 

Belden is very good at all this for copper.

 

There are various approaches to HDMI to fiber. There are simple approaches. IMHO these are best. You have 4 fibers and each "lane" is sorta a analog equivalent of the electrical copper signal. You need REALLY fast parts to do this. The less parts the less noise/jitter/phase noise introduced. HDMI is 3 or more recently 4 data lanes. Each lane is bit stream which is a highly complex TDMS signal.

 

So in a *ideal* setup and a short run, the Belden mfgr Blue Jeans cable series FE is really great. BUT, and its a very BIG BUTT ( haha ) each system is very different and at these high frequencies, low voltages and lower power its a very weird world.

 

You gotta try different stuff to find what is best for your system.

 

Mass produced HDMI cables have consistancy and come from big plants that have, usually, high precision. Few people make HDMI wire. Lots of people use wire made by a few companies and put on fancy sheeths, make the connectors look jazzy and, of course, plate the connector in gold.

 

So its complicated.

 

I personally use a Wire World Platinum Starlight 49.. FOR ME, using a 1M length to a Sony A90J or my old school Panasonic Plasma, it has a good tradeoff and makes things look VERY realistic. Not overly edgy. That is when I evaul pic. I do sound using the same cable to a Datasat RS20 that I modded then another 1M to the display.  Doing a AB with other cables I see/ear obvious differences in pic and sound. But its tradeoffs. SOme cables look sharper - but also look artificial. The gamma seems off and things dont look as 3D. The picture can flat seem dark. Colors vary in how how accurate they look and it seems like deeper bit depth for the color - less banding. Sound wise, its like comparing digital audio cables. Like USB cables or SPDIF. Except the differences are far more obvious with all sorts of tradeoffs.

 

The ATVX made all this far more obvious. I saw a little difference with HDMI cables before, but the ATVX seems so clear that you see the cable differences far more clearly. So its been very interesting to explore.

 

I do not think there is ONE right cable. Just like in audio. You really have to match up the cable to your system and to get it really right you gotta explore. So, sure, fiber makes sense. But each system is different.

 

Side note. My Panasonic VT60 plasma, 1080, can look stunning and at times, more real then a OLED. I think this is because the Panasonic has no real processing. VS modern displayes use a video processing system that is hard to turn off. The RGB spectrum of the pixel color is much wider on the plasma, this *might* also have some affect. From a reasonable distance 1080 can be great. The lower bitrate on the HDMI I think helps too. I keep it around for these reasons.

 

Here in the USA we can't get the Panasonic OLED. I think I might want one of those. The Sony OLED is cool tho. I can turn off most all the BS processing and stuff and get down to accurate reproduction.

[TP1]

On 27/1/2024 at 2:37 PM, Xymox said:

I personally use a Wire World Platinum Starlight 49

 

Did you mean 48?    I couldn't find 49.

 

I use  the ATV-X  with a projector on a 140" cinemascope screen.    I think projectors & screens  magnify  the differences of source equipment and material more so than  TV's, particularly when there is a big difference in sizes.   This is why investing in an ATV-X was  not a difficult decision for me particularly after seeing how the Etherregen improved the picture of the standard ATV  on the big screen.   

 

As for HDMI cables, I had Audioquest and Belkin Pure AV  but  given the 15M cable length to the projector, I switched to optical for that connection at first.   The reason I switched to all optical was  because of an experience when I first got the optical HDMI cable ( Ruipro) .  I  needed a 1 m replacement cable to connect the ATV  and as I didn't have one I used the 15M Ruipro as a temporary fix.  I immediately noticed that the sync time with the Lumagen Pro  reduced significantly and the Picture and Audio quality was outstanding.  I'm not exactly sure why that was the case  but i ended up getting a 1M Optical cable to make the advantage permanent.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2024 by TP1

[Steever]

I got as far as converting my ATV from 240VAC to run off a DC LPS with a Wireworld Silver Starlight HDMI cables a couple of years ago. The improvements to sound AND picture were noticeable. 
 

We use our ATV every day so the expense was worth it. 
 

Reading this thread has certainly piqued my interest with what more the little Apple box is capable of. 

[Xymox]

On 28/01/2024 at 6:08 AM, Steever said:

I got as far as converting my ATV from 240VAC to run off a DC LPS with a Wireworld Silver Starlight HDMI cables a couple of years ago. The improvements to sound AND picture were noticeable. 
 

We use our ATV every day so the expense was worth it. 
 

Reading this thread has certainly piqued my interest with what more the little Apple box is capable of. 

 

I know huh ?

 

That is how I started. I did mods in 30 mins and plugged it in and went OMG... That started a months long R&D journey that has made it clear to me there is way more going on with streaming hardware then we knew. There are clearly BIG gaps in our engineering for HDMI and digital streaming hardware and what can be seen/heard. It was, and is, a fun adventure. I might have gained a knowledge of these systems that no one else seems to have   So this has been great fun for me. The adventure even brought me around to realize how limiting, and blinding, using digital sampling test equipment can be for R&D on these systems. You can spend $100k on a current Tektronix MSO scope and it is very misleading. Its sorta seductive and very pretty, but its all statistics and math. To REALLY see what is going on with signals in the noise, you gotta use pure analog Tektronix. So I am starting to realize that EEs using computer modeling based on reference designs by chip makers and digital based test equipment are really missing the boat.

 

The ATVX has changed my fundamental engineering philosophy and practices. I have a new understanding that digital based engineers lack. NO signal is a 1 or 0. Its a voltage, with noise of many types. Engineers today are going into the workplace with nearly no analog design skills. They copy paste from reference designs. They use computer modeling.

 

 

[Xymox]

On 27/01/2024 at 8:21 AM, TP1 said:

 

Did you mean 48?    I couldn't find 49.

 

I use  the ATV-X  with a projector on a 140" cinemascope screen.    I think projectors & screens  magnify  the differences of source equipment and material more so than  TV's, particularly when there is a big difference in sizes.   This is why investing in an ATV-X was  not a difficult decision for me particularly after seeing how the Etherregen improved the picture of the standard ATV  on the big screen.   

 

As for HDMI cables, I had Audioquest and Belkin Pure AV  but  given the 15M cable length to the projector, I switched to optical for that connection at first.   The reason I switched to all optical was  because of an experience when I first got the optical HDMI cable ( Ruipro) .  I  needed a 1 m replacement cable to connect the ATV  and as I didn't have one I used the 15M Ruipro as a temporary fix.  I immediately noticed that the sync time with the Lumagen Pro  reduced significantly and the Picture and Audio quality was outstanding.  I'm not exactly sure why that was the case  but i ended up getting a 1M Optical cable to make the advantage permanent.

 

 

 

I have not tested a Audioquest cable. I like Bill Low, he is a great person, good soul.

 

You know... I have no idea what cable is best.. hahahaha.. The picture jumped up so much doing the ATVX that its a new world and you can see differences so clearly. I do not know what is best.

 

I saw some weird things when floppy around with some cables months back. I was fooling with my Panasonic VT60 plasma. 1080. I like it because it does not have any real processing and I can see the pic clearly, even tho its 1080. I keep it around and look at the ATVX pic now and then for various reasons VS my Sony A90J. In some ways, sometimes, I even prefer the Plasma. From far enough away.. ANYWAY.. I was flipping cables around.. Something odd happened. Very repeatable. BANDING.. Banding occurred with one cable, but not the other ?!?! W T H... No way that could change without the actual pixel levels changing. Somehow the bit values were different between the 2 cables. In my mind, that caused tilt. There was a actual different in the picture with the cables that affected the TV pixels. Bit obvious banding.. Flip to the other cable,, gone,,, back,, banding..  The plasma does not have good bit depth, so, banding can be induced pretty easy if your input is lacking bit depth. But it was a paused pic and just swapped cables.

 

48Gbps cables handle the clock line differently. On a 18Gbps connection, like the ATVX, the fourth pair is for clock. Its a lower speed twisted pair. On 48G cables that 4th pair is used for data and is much wider bandwidth. This has caused some gear to not like 48G cables. So your syncing might be related to that.

[TP1]

There is one interesting issue that I seem to have encountered with the ATV-X. One program I looked for was not available on Netflix on the ATV-X but it was available  through Netflix on another ATV.  The show was a lowly rated kids movie  so no big deal.  Both units are set to Australia as the region.

The show - Dolphin tales 2 - is not available on Netflix USA but is in Australia  and I was wondering whether Netflix knows that the ATV originated from the USA and did some form of Geo-blocking based on the ATV hardware signature.

 

This is not a problem long term  given that that Netflix  has a far greater range of shows available in the USA than Australia but it did make me curious. 

[Savingslowly]

On 16/01/2024 at 10:04 AM, Xymox said:

 

 

My distributor has them in stock. We have shipped a bunch to Australia. Just drop him a email. He got a big batch from me just before Christmas, but, he should still have some. He also handles the press.

Who is the distributor in Australia?

[Xymox]

On 25/04/2024 at 12:30 AM, Savingslowly said:

Who is the distributor in Australia?

My distributor does worldwide.

[Xymox]

Well I think its official.. 

 

Apple is not going to make any new AppleTVs. Today was the 3rd event that did not announce anything AppleTV related. The last one they released was a dramatic cost/quality reduction with no new important features. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJbJyFbEhxU The market for stand alone streamers for AV use has nearly vanished from the mass market. TVs/phones come with streaming apps and AppleTV+. The only people buying these devices now are people like us, high end AV guys with serious dedicated systems. So I think its pretty official now, Apple has left this market. On top of this, the A2169 AppleTV has everything needed already 4K/HDR/DV/Atmos/21:9, they can just update firmware. The new TVos 18 is awesome and has lots of new features. Because of the quality of the A2169 and all the mods I do, I think the ATVX is now the best AV streamer. Its also Apple, so unlike any other streaming device, it is the only streamer with Apple quality and its really feature rich VS all other streaming platforms.

 

When I started making these I knew Apple was gonna leave the market and that the A2169 was going to be the best unit and eventually sought after once production stopped. Much like a Oppo BluRay player. The ATVX is the best way to stream AV and as Apple is never going to make another stand alone ATV. I have shipped close to 400 ATVX systems so far. So far, every client LOVED it and now can't live without it.

 

As I expected. The 'new in box factory sealed' base units I start with are now nearly gone. They have also been getting much more expensive. Its now clear that brand new units are going to become impossible to find. I have always planned to transistion to buying used units and doing refurb, mods and a new warranty. Much like how things work buying a Oppo.

 

My reason to post is that if you want a brand new fact sealed unit, now is the time to get a order in. Contact me or my distributor. https://dejitterit.com/

 

I will continue to do fact new units as long as I can, but, buying them could become expensive which would raise the price of a ATVX. Refurbished units will always be available forever, but, they will have some scuffs and not perfect. Again I will warranty them tho. Regretfully they wont be less expensive, its actually more labor as I need to clean them up and do a bunch of testing and refurb.

 

So soon I wont have brand new ATVs. Its now or never. hehehehe.. I have had a lot of people ask me to let them know when new ones were getting scarce, they are getting scarce. 

 

********************************

 

TVos 18 is out. If you have a ATVX, update your firmware. It brings a better pic + lots of new features. I have been running the Developer Beta for months. Its a great upgrade. It also brings tons of features no other streaming platform has. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/updates-to-the-home-experience-elevate-entertainment-and-bring-more-convenience/

 

********************************

[groovem]

Apple TV's are still available, where's your evidence that they are going to be discontinued?

[Totima]

15 hours ago, Xymox said:

Well I think its official.. 

 

Apple is not going to make any new AppleTVs. Today was the 3rd event that did not announce anything AppleTV related. The last one they released was a dramatic cost/quality reduction with no new important features. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJbJyFbEhxU The market for stand alone streamers for AV use has nearly vanished from the mass market. TVs/phones come with streaming apps and AppleTV+. The only people buying these devices now are people like us, high end AV guys with serious dedicated systems. So I think its pretty official now, Apple has left this market. On top of this, the A2169 AppleTV has everything needed already 4K/HDR/DV/Atmos/21:9, they can just update firmware. The new TVos 18 is awesome and has lots of new features. Because of the quality of the A2169 and all the mods I do, I think the ATVX is now the best AV streamer. Its also Apple, so unlike any other streaming device, it is the only streamer with Apple quality and its really feature rich VS all other streaming platforms.

 

When I started making these I knew Apple was gonna leave the market and that the A2169 was going to be the best unit and eventually sought after once production stopped. Much like a Oppo BluRay player. The ATVX is the best way to stream AV and as Apple is never going to make another stand alone ATV. I have shipped close to 400 ATVX systems so far. So far, every client LOVED it and now can't live without it.

 

As I expected. The 'new in box factory sealed' base units I start with are now nearly gone. They have also been getting much more expensive. Its now clear that brand new units are going to become impossible to find. I have always planned to transistion to buying used units and doing refurb, mods and a new warranty. Much like how things work buying a Oppo.

 

My reason to post is that if you want a brand new fact sealed unit, now is the time to get a order in. Contact me or my distributor. https://dejitterit.com/

 

I will continue to do fact new units as long as I can, but, buying them could become expensive which would raise the price of a ATVX. Refurbished units will always be available forever, but, they will have some scuffs and not perfect. Again I will warranty them tho. Regretfully they wont be less expensive, its actually more labor as I need to clean them up and do a bunch of testing and refurb.

 

So soon I wont have brand new ATVs. Its now or never. hehehehe.. I have had a lot of people ask me to let them know when new ones were getting scarce, they are getting scarce. 

 

********************************

 

TVos 18 is out. If you have a ATVX, update your firmware. It brings a better pic + lots of new features. I have been running the Developer Beta for months. Its a great upgrade. It also brings tons of features no other streaming platform has. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/updates-to-the-home-experience-elevate-entertainment-and-bring-more-convenience/

 

********************************

Keen to understand the comment around the better ‘picture’ with TVoS 18. What exactly has improved with the picture?

[Xymox]

7 hours ago, Totima said:

Keen to understand the comment around the better ‘picture’ with TVoS 18. What exactly has improved with the picture?

 

VERY interesting...  Yes caught me, and others, by surprize. I have a developer acct and saw it immd on the first dev 18. Not what I was expecting. I have a small set of people who also have a ATVX who I use as beta going back 4 years. I had them also do the dev beta and without me saying anything all of them reported the pic quality increase..

 

I dont know... 18 draws more current tho when doing streaming. It went from 180ma to 200ma.. This was the first time that has changed since I starting making the ATVX. Other power draw like at idle is the same. It also does not happen when playing music with a blank picture. Only streaming video is there a jump in power consumption.

 

I am not sure what they did. We will never know. 18 does bring 21:9 aspect ratio tho and other things video related. So I think they reworked the video driver.

 

Its hard to define the differences. I have done a AB 17 VS 18.. Everything I can say tho is very subjective. Its clearer, more detail. I would say color rendering is the same. Gamma and black levels are the same. Its like they are using a better scaler algorithm. I donno.. Something happened.. It might also only be visible on the ATVX as the mods really improve pic. Apple may have no idea they even improved it.

 

Sound stayed the same.

 

I dont like how the new features sound tho like dialog enhancement.

[Xymox]

WELLLLL........

There is a issue...

Demand in the last day from all of you and from others I also told this along with a email blast to people and posting on WhatsBest has completely depleted inventory of ATVX in one day. Both my dist and my own.. I need to build more.. That was the biggest set of orders ever..

VERY Regretfully there is now a 2-3 week backlog This SUX for me as I have always prided myself as having inventory on the shelf ready to ship immd.. I did not anticipate this big a demand.. My bad... Im sorry for that..

I will have Bill handle the backlog and keep everybody informed..

If you want one, best to get in the queue now. This could be like the last days of the Oppo. This kinda produced a bit of panic buying. Oops. I thought I had pretty much saturated the market of people who could use one. After nearly 400 sold, i figured I had satisfied demand.

[adam0bmx0]

I had no idea modding the A4K TV box was a thing until I stumbled across this thread!

 

I have two in the house, one for the OLED TV and one for my JVC NP5.

Would love to do the basic power supply mod on mine but i'm not a capable solderer......

 

[powerav]

1 hour ago, adam0bmx0 said:

Would love to do the basic power supply mod on mine but i'm not a capable solderer......

The mod is easy but fitting all the components in a tiny space is the hard bit.

[adam0bmx0]

In a perfect would, it would be nice if I was able to borrow a local one and do back to back HDMI switching to hear/see the difference before committing.