Which is the best streaming service

[Kaynin]

13 minutes ago, Darren69 said:

For me, a late adopting dinosaur, I found ROON excellent for a few years but lately it became so slow and clunky as to be unusable so Nucleus is sold and I have moved to the Bluesound Node X and associated app. This works perfectly first time every time. I am a convert to the Bluesound product. ROONS community is supportive but an unusual approach. So for me I find the Bluesound app and Node X combo as reliable as it gets so therefore my ‘best’ streaming setup that I can recommend. 

 

 

Hate to burst your bubble, but I've been using Bluesound for about 5 years.  Was seamless for about 4 years, but is now BAF.  Check out the attached screenshot - hangtime is better than Jordan.  Only solution so far is to uninstall then reinstall the app.  You, right, go and get stuffed.  Once you do that it works BEAUTIFULLY for about... 1 minute!!!  then goes back to Air Jordan.  I seriously hope this happens to you, so that I'm not the only one to feel the pain.

 

Edited November 13, 2024 by Kaynin

[Darren69]

33 minutes ago, Kaynin said:

 

 

Hate to burst your bubble, but I've been using Bluesound for about 5 years.  Was seamless for about 4 years, but is now BAF.  Check out the attached screenshot - hangtime is better than Jordan.  Only solution so far is to uninstall then reinstall the app.  You, right, go and get stuffed.  Once you do that it works BEAUTIFULLY for about... 1 minute!!!  then goes back to Air Jordan.  I seriously hope this happens to you, so that I'm not the only one to feel the pain.

 

Maybe it’s a common theme with this stuff? I seriously hope it’s just you.

Edited November 13, 2024 by Darren69

[Kaynin]

5 minutes ago, Darren69 said:

Maybe it’s a common theme with this stuff? I seriously hope it’s just you.

 

I think it is mate.  Expectations far exceed reality.  Something I used to tell the ex-wife often...

[Darren69]

30 minutes ago, Kaynin said:

 

I think it is mate.  Expectations far exceed reality.  Something I used to tell the ex-wife often...

I’ll be sure to enjoy the product while I can. I mentioned as I noticed no Bluesound conversation amongst the others.

[POV]

2 hours ago, Kaynin said:

 

 

Hate to burst your bubble, but I've been using Bluesound for about 5 years.  Was seamless for about 4 years, but is now BAF.  Check out the attached screenshot - hangtime is better than Jordan.  Only solution so far is to uninstall then reinstall the app.  You, right, go and get stuffed.  Once you do that it works BEAUTIFULLY for about... 1 minute!!!  then goes back to Air Jordan.  I seriously hope this happens to you, so that I'm not the only one to feel the pain.

 

I use Bluos extensively on the daily and am using it right now.  I have never experienced what you’re describing…

Edited November 13, 2024 by POV

[Kaynin]

28 minutes ago, POV said:

I use Bluos extensively on the daily and am using it right now.  I have never experienced what you’re describing…

Good for you.

[gibbo9000]

As an accident (forgot to cancel free Qobuz trial) I have both Qobuz and Tidal.  And as a committed Roon user it is trivial to do back-to-back comparison of versions.

 

I agree that overall Qobuz is probably better quality, but does have some gaping holes in its library. 

 

What does strike me though is that they are both very good at their best, but they use different sources and for a given album what you are hearing are differences in the base recording or transcoding (or whatever influences reproduction - similar to using different turntables / pre-amps to play something).  So the 'quality' may be the same, just a different sound profile.

 

Gibbo

[POV]

2 minutes ago, Kaynin said:

Good for you.

Well thanks.  But my point was that it seems like maybe the issue is associated with your device, not a Bluesound issue.

Edited November 13, 2024 by POV

[Kaynin]

4 minutes ago, POV said:

Well thanks.  But my point was that it seems like maybe the issue is associated with your device, not a Bluesound issue.

I know what your point was.

[Darren69]

8 hours ago, POV said:

Well thanks.  But my point was that it seems like maybe the issue is associated with your device, not a Bluesound issue.

My gut feeling is that there was probably nothing wrong with my ROON either but if one isnt an IT specialist how can we move forward? Another issue I feel there was with ROON as their community support, someone would say they had been having issues and then you were sent away to come back with your computer type, NAS type, file paths and all a page full of info and then you were assisted over maybe half a day to get your network working again. If someone had a spray this community was searched for previous issues and then weaponised against the grievant 'we see you have only had three issues here in the last 8 months' or something like that when this is a customer with a problem needing help. Bearing in mind something like a commer or misplaced fullstop somewhere in computer land can be enough to derail everything. I still have silver discs and a nice CDP for such times. Just my experience. So for me to have the Node X and the app just working is a refreshing change (for now lol).

Edited November 13, 2024 by Darren69

[frankn]

Personally I find Qobuz has all the music I have ever looked for but I’m probably more mainstream than many of you. 
I was using free Spotify for when I was out mountain biking and an occasional search for bits but got fed up with adverts. I never made a comparison through the stereo of the services. 
This week Qobuz improved the radio stuff by at least 500% , track editing/cataloguing  /search etc. has also improved a lot over the past few months. 
Streaming quality of the music has always been good to my ears. 

[doogie44]

Also as a dinosaur I enjoy Qobuz the most. Just a tip: never assume that a track/album is 'unavailable' in the catalogue. Try all the different categories (label; performer; release name; composer etc) in turn. When all else fails, look up the item on Google and try some of the accessory players...

Just my 2c worth

[warweary]

My experience with streaming has been like a kid with a new toy. First the streaming service, Spotify, was all shiny and new and I loved it and cuddled it, but then one day I put it down and rarely go back to it. Now Spotify icons sit on all my devices, like a boys Tonka toys are discarded to rust in the sandpit.

Then I was like, I’ve got a new apple iPhone 13 and this free Apple Music subscription, so that was the new shiny toy - subscription. I took it with me in the car, on the bike and played with it and cuddled and polished it. It too is another barely used icon.

These days, I play with Qobuz, and boys, it sure is shiny and likes to be stroked and patted.

Tidal is on the list to trial in 2025. Cough.

Yamaha MusicCast does Deezer natively, so that toy is on the list too. Sigh.

“Mummy, I can’t find my icons.”

[rantan]

There are so many differing experiences with Bluesound gear and the operating system that I have NFI who to believe.

My own main caveat it that over several decades I have found NAD and Bluesound hardware to be prone to problems and one often sees refurbished amps and streamers.

Notwithstanding this I would still consider a Bluesound device if/when I go to part time streaming

[POV]

23 minutes ago, rantan said:

There are so many differing experiences with Bluesound gear and the operating system that I have NFI who to believe.

My own main caveat it that over several decades I have found NAD and Bluesound hardware to be prone to problems and one often sees refurbished amps and streamers.

Notwithstanding this I would still consider a Bluesound device if/when I go to part time streaming

I think part of the issue is the large variability of system configurations, network setups, firewalls, and control devices.

 

With no disrespect intended to anyone, I tend to think that many of the problems reported are in the realm of user problems.  I caveat this with the reality that some are going to be much more able to fault-find and overcome setup and configuration issues than others.  This is the same with Roon, many of the reports problems ultimately turn out to be issues with the user or user system configuration.  It would be fair under this consideration to demand improved/simplified setup, but that would also likely come with reduced flexibility, and then power users would complain.

 

What I will say is that I have never had a single problem with a Bluesound component and from a quick count I own 10.  I’ve also never come across a friend or relative have an issue that I wasn’t able to help them overcome via system settings, network settings, and configuration.

 

I only use NAD Masters Series stuff, but all of my components have been absolutely rock solid, with one exception and that was a hardware failure in the Hypex module and it was replaced under warranty with no drama.

[aussievintage]

On 16/11/2024 at 7:04 PM, POV said:

With no disrespect intended to anyone, I tend to think that many of the problems reported are in the realm of user problems.  I caveat this with the reality that some are going to be much more able to fault-find and overcome setup and configuration issues than others.  This is the same with Roon, many of the reports problems ultimately turn out to be issues with the user or user system configuration.  It would be fair under this consideration to demand improved/simplified setup, but that would also likely come with reduced flexibility, and then power users would complain.

 

This is the problem with complicated systems.  When sold to the general public, there will be many customers without sufficient knowledge who will struggle to maintain it, should they even manage to get it installed properly.  I am not trying to denigrate those users - just pointing out that it is too complicated to expect everyone will be happy.    Hence you hear many questions and reports of problems.  

 

To the OP, I am noting you say Amazon doesn't sound as good.  I would suggest you try as many things as possible (free trials etc) to see if you can establish a pattern in what sounds good.  It might turn out to be random, or even, dependant on your mood when you tried it.  You might even come back to Amazon later and like it.  Maybe, maybe not.

 

Don't forget to try the many free internet radio options that have hires lossless streaming as well.

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Best streaming service for my daily use is Apple Music.

 

Convenience and all round music enjoyment trumps absolute sound quality for me.

Is CD quality (and Hi res if you have the right system).

 

Listen to it on the Sonos during the day.

Most of the fun I have is on the Apple TV, the app has all the songs plus a decent Atmos collection, music videos and concerts to play on the big screen.

 

Can up the 2ch quality via the ifi zen stream into my processor if I want.

 

Great GUI on the phone, iPad or Apple TV.

 

Rarely lets me down and using Airplay is nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be. Rarely a drop out or issue.

[betty boop]

On 18/11/2024 at 8:19 PM, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Best streaming service for my daily use is Apple Music.

 

Convenience and all round music enjoyment trumps absolute sound quality for me.

This it is for me too… everyone I try something else like tidal I am only disappointed due to range of music… in some services lucky to have all albums of artist or if have only has some few songs … I do listen to all sorts of music though …

 

On 18/11/2024 at 8:19 PM, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Is CD quality (and Hi res if you have the right system).

Yep I’m finding pretty good in lossless cd or hires via eversolo a8 

[doogie44]

On 18/11/2024 at 8:32 AM, aussievintage said:

This is the problem with complicated systems.  When sold to the general public, there will be many customers without sufficient knowledge who will struggle to maintain it, should they even manage to get it installed properly.  I am not trying to denigrate those users - just pointing out that it is too complicated to expect everyone will be happy.    Hence you hear many questions and reports of problems.  

 

 

Exactly--you have nailed it. Ridiculously complex interfaces in their technological infancy riddled with poor design. Be careful when you report user problems. These are built in!

 

I am one of those digitally-challenged customers. My skills extend only to programming bedside clocks and even then it's complicated (black on black miniscule numbers; holding down one button while pressing another and such)!! I have completely given up on the oven (just using 1 knob) and microwave programming (press '1 minute' repeatedly). Let's not talk about home network changing, or the computer registry, shall we?

 

Without automatic transmission and power steering many people would not be driving cars at all

 

No (further) grizzling here about my technological ignorance except to say that: 

 

Without the Windows interface, DOS would still be the operative system for some computer users

Without computer 'wizards' most computer programs or apps would never be installed properly

Special shout-out to the DECO app; second shout-out to the makers of the Lightning DS app. These alone have allowed me to enjoy digital music in the home without understanding more than the minimum.

Massive brickbat to all Microsoft Forum helpers utilising upwards of 20 steps to rectify a simple issue

Quadruple brickbats to the programmers who update your computer automatically--such that nothing works properly after that and you must ring your resident tech in desperation. Are these same programmers who are quite content to release programs so filled with bugs that it's a wonder they work at all?

 

I recall, in days of yore, a popular newspaper (remember those?) column dedicated to the problems encountered by early adopters of Windows 3.1 and the like. You may not know that there were thick books (remember those?) also dedicated to explaining the esoteric operations of every single computer program; these were called 'operating manuals'. Nobody ever read them except for the experts--who responded in the paper to the bleating of frustrated customers. In short order I realised that every single response was straight out of the manuals, and that the poor consumer had never managed to acquaint themselves with such! It was no secret that if a new program were to succeed at all it had better be fairly intuitive.

 

Fast foward (yes, I remember RTR tapes and cassettes) to today: digital architecture and implementation at the consumer level is to me completely non-intuitive. Others will disagree, of course.

 

Unsavoury joke (a digital metaphor):

Q. What's the difference between the pub and a clitoris?

A. Most men can find the pub

 

I read a recent review in The Absolute Sound of an internet ethernet switch, including several complex diagrams of boxes and arrows. On the fourth reading I wondered just what I was trying to achieve? I could not explain one piece of how this works after much effort. Much like my reading a book about integral calculus and physics. Thus I conclude that it's a special language best spoken by devotees like nerds, gamers and programmers. There are many of those here on SNA and I do admire their facility. I do.

 

Q. Why do I waste my time trying so hard to comprehend? Surely I need the right kind of integrated 'automatic' help from the makers? I'm a music lover, not a computer tech. Bring on the systems designers. I am not afraid of the rise of A.I. after we humans have so completely botched the explaining of using everyday machines and objects: it could not possibly be worse...

 

Dr Samuel Johnson (see the 18th century The English Dictionary) said that knowledge is of two kinds; either you do know, or you know where to find out. My digital experience is an epic fail on both counts. I am happy to report that I no longer really attempt to understand these matters digital (so saving countless hours)...I have much better things to do on the path of self-awareness as a seeker of the truth.

 

I take heart from the fact that my grand-daughter--at 18--cannot tell the time from a clock face. At all. Her phone does all her calculations and spelling and grammar (just as well because they are quite atrocious). Nor does she know her 'times tables' (how could she?). Or most of even recent history. Or very much at all that's not online in Snapchat at the touch/swipe of a finger. She is an extraordinary thumb-typist though, and is coming back to actual reading after a long absence. This might have something to do with the HSC. She is the product of an expensive education, naturally.

 

So, in my dotage I still have a few tricks left...and much real experience and knowledge of human nature (but not in the field of computers). 

 

Just my 2c worth

 

[Martykt]

On 18/11/2024 at 5:32 AM, aussievintage said:

To the OP, I am noting you say Amazon doesn't sound as good.

I use Amazon and find the audio quality very good.

One thing to note though with Amazon is you have to go into the settings and turn Loudness Normalization off and set the streaming and download audio quality to HD/Ultra HD.

[wasabijim]

1 hour ago, doogie44 said:

 

Exactly--you have nailed it. Ridiculously complex interfaces in their technological infancy riddled with poor design. Be careful when you report user problems. These are built in!

 

I am one of those digitally-challenged customers. My skills extend only to programming bedside clocks and even then it's complicated (black on black miniscule numbers; holding down one button while pressing another and such)!! I have completely given up on the oven (just using 1 knob) and microwave programming (press '1 minute' repeatedly). Let's not talk about home network changing, or the computer registry, shall we?

 

Without automatic transmission and power steering many people would not be driving cars at all

 

No (further) grizzling here about my technological ignorance except to say that: 

 

Without the Windows interface, DOS would still be the operative system for some computer users

Without computer 'wizards' most computer programs or apps would never be installed properly

Special shout-out to the DECO app; second shout-out to the makers of the Lightning DS app. These alone have allowed me to enjoy digital music in the home without understanding more than the minimum.

Massive brickbat to all Microsoft Forum helpers utilising upwards of 20 steps to rectify a simple issue

Quadruple brickbats to the programmers who update your computer automatically--such that nothing works properly after that and you must ring your resident tech in desperation. Are these same programmers who are quite content to release programs so filled with bugs that it's a wonder they work at all?

 

I recall, in days of yore, a popular newspaper (remember those?) column dedicated to the problems encountered by early adopters of Windows 3.1 and the like. You may not know that there were thick books (remember those?) also dedicated to explaining the esoteric operations of every single computer program; these were called 'operating manuals'. Nobody ever read them except for the experts--who responded in the paper to the bleating of frustrated customers. In short order I realised that every single response was straight out of the manuals, and that the poor consumer had never managed to acquaint themselves with such! It was no secret that if a new program were to succeed at all it had better be fairly intuitive.

 

Fast foward (yes, I remember RTR tapes and cassettes) to today: digital architecture and implementation at the consumer level is to me completely non-intuitive. Others will disagree, of course.

 

Unsavoury joke (a digital metaphor):

Q. What's the difference between the pub and a clitoris?

A. Most men can find the pub

 

I read a recent review in The Absolute Sound of an internet ethernet switch, including several complex diagrams of boxes and arrows. On the fourth reading I wondered just what I was trying to achieve? I could not explain one piece of how this works after much effort. Much like my reading a book about integral calculus and physics. Thus I conclude that it's a special language best spoken by devotees like nerds, gamers and programmers. There are many of those here on SNA and I do admire their facility. I do.

 

Q. Why do I waste my time trying so hard to comprehend? Surely I need the right kind of integrated 'automatic' help from the makers? I'm a music lover, not a computer tech. Bring on the systems designers. I am not afraid of the rise of A.I. after we humans have so completely botched the explaining of using everyday machines and objects: it could not possibly be worse...

 

Dr Samuel Johnson (see the 18th century The English Dictionary) said that knowledge is of two kinds; either you do know, or you know where to find out. My digital experience is an epic fail on both counts. I am happy to report that I no longer really attempt to understand these matters digital (so saving countless hours)...I have much better things to do on the path of self-awareness as a seeker of the truth.

 

I take heart from the fact that my grand-daughter--at 18--cannot tell the time from a clock face. At all. Her phone does all her calculations and spelling and grammar (just as well because they are quite atrocious). Nor does she know her 'times tables' (how could she?). Or most of even recent history. Or very much at all that's not online in Snapchat at the touch/swipe of a finger. She is an extraordinary thumb-typist though, and is coming back to actual reading after a long absence. This might have something to do with the HSC. She is the product of an expensive education, naturally.

 

So, in my dotage I still have a few tricks left...and much real experience and knowledge of human nature (but not in the field of computers). 

 

Just my 2c worth

 

 

you have had quiet the journey 

 

not sure if it was brought up, but it's a big issue trying to build for the almost endless variations in hardware that will run an application. Even with the "PC" standard or "IBM Compatible" emerging and then Windows - there was still large hardware variations and configurations at play when you compare it to Apple's very narrow approach where they knew and controlled the machines that would operate the software. 

 

With great variation comes great headaches... 

Edited November 28, 2024 by wasabijim

[Satanica]

31 minutes ago, Martykt said:

I use Amazon and find the audio quality very good.

One thing to note though with Amazon is you have to go into the settings and turn Loudness Normalization off and set the streaming and download audio quality to HD/Ultra HD.

I think one will find that Loudness Nomalisation from streaming services being on by default is the norm, and I think for some there is no option to turn it off.

[Martykt]

51 minutes ago, Satanica said:

I think one will find that Loudness Nomalisation from streaming services being on by default is the norm, and I think for some there is no option to turn it off.

Wouldn't surprise me at all.

Yes Loudness Normalization is on by default in Amazon.

[Abyss_Mage]

If you have to go streaming:

 

Apple music if you wanna support the artist.

 

Spotify if you hate the artist and all musicians. 

 

The rest are all somewhere in between, most are bad like Spotify.

[frankn]

Band amp is probably the best, QoBuz ranks better than most.