Ported vs. Unported speakers

[davewantsmoore]

15 hours ago, joz said:

But to actually find out requires a decent amount of coin. 

Finding out if you actually have a problem to solve doesn't need to cost lots.

 

[March Audio]

6 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Finding out if you actually have a problem to solve doesn't need to cost lots.

 

 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1

 

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

 

Considering how much people are prepared to pay for their hifi kit, I dont think $125 is a lot to spend.

Edited November 2, 2023 by March Audio

[playdough]

1 hour ago, BioBrian said:

give almost flat (Listening Position) response from 60 down to 12.5 Hz, with no DSP, or EQ, other than targeted driver/box design

Hi Brian, what sort of power on these Ported Subs ? Wouldn't happen to be housed in a light construction would it. I'll bet you are a Speaker Builder.

Nice pass band response there, awesome, wow !   

[playdough]

@joz Going from 8 x 12 " woofers to 16 in a huge area will halve the cone excursion for the current SPL Max, plus all manner of other good things like, less distortion at the lowest octaves.

 

Bass might even sound a little cleaner at reasonable listening levels, due to the drivers/amps not being tortured to P and X Max.

Headroom for +6dB for bass, on top of what is already achieved, is quite a lot of entertainment reinforcement. 

[cheekyboy]

41 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

I don't completely disagree with where you're coming from.

 

I think it's fair to say that slapping a subwoofer in, can be a real step backwards in performance if the frequency response is not right .... but paradoxically it can sound very "different" (which will cause like or dislike") , due to the big changes in frequency response, even if they are "bad"..... and so "subjective impressions" (I don't explicitly mean yours.... I mean just people saying if it was good/bad experience generally) aren't a very good generalisation on the whole "will it fix my problem", topic.

 

I do think quite often people want to put in t a subwoofer to fix some perceived problem, that just better setup of the mains speakers would resolve (via. placement of speakers, placement of listener, and EQ) ...... BUT the only way to actually stop the room problem (not enough modes excited), or the SPL problem (not enough SPL vs frequency) .... is too add more bass sources.

 

 

Hello davewantsmore, I'm not sure which of my posts you're responding to, as there is no dialogue in the quote box other than 'Hello' and therefore I'm also not sure what it is that you don't completely disagree with where I'm coming from. Regardless, I've never advocated the use of subwoofers in this debate, even though I have mentioned that I do have in a second system, a pair of sealed 10" subwoofers running in conjunction with a pair of sealed 2 way standmounts and that blend is actually working very well in my listening room.

 

My initial posts here were made mainly to make the point that there are good and bad designs in both ported and sealed loudspeakers and that excellent results can be had from both types of enclosure and to refute the often stated blanket assumption that ported loudspeakers equal deep bass response and that sealed loudspeakers equal tight or lean bass response........neither assumption is correct.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith  

Edited November 2, 2023 by cheekyboy

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Maybe this thread could have done with a Poll where people tell us what type of speakers they actually use and how they came to their decision?

 

From what I can see after 9 pages there is no clear winner or loser to the initial question other than a badly designed speaker (ported or sealed) is a badly designed speaker.

 

oh and that Jimmy Hendrix was on a mixing board at some stage of his life!

[playdough]

Just now, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

no clear winner or loser

Some speakers are less blameless than others.

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

4 minutes ago, playdough said:

Some speakers are less blameless than others.

That clears it up!

[Bass13]

Ported loudspeakers and Sealed loudspeakers 

 

I will be testing this myself soon, in the same room, with the same gear, & with the same speaker position.

 

 

[cheekyboy]

1 minute ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Maybe this thread could have done with a Poll where people tell us what type of speakers they actually use and how they came to their decision?

 

From what I can see after 9 pages there is no clear winner or loser to the initial question other than a badly designed speaker (ported or sealed) is a badly designed speaker.

 

Yeah, a poll would give us an idea of what is the most popular between the two and my guess would be that ported would come out on top. 

 

I don't think you'll ever get a winner or loser either and while ported and non ported can be designed badly, they can also be designed well too. 

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

[Cloth Ears]

19 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Maybe this thread could have done with a Poll where people tell us what type of speakers they actually use and how they came to their decision?

How would I have answered? 'Both' and yet left no-one the wiser. And I didn't know polls could work that way (i.e. how they came to their decision)

On 01/11/2023 at 11:30 AM, Cloth Ears said:

I actually have two-way ported mains, but they're actively crossed above the port's loudest frequency to a pair of sealed bass boxes. And I have a big Klipsch 15" subwoofer (slot ported). I like it. And I can also use it the make explosions sound good in movies!

 

 

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

24 minutes ago, Cloth Ears said:

How would I have answered? 'Both' and yet left no-one the wiser. And I didn't know polls could work that way (i.e. how they came to their decision)

 

 

The fact that it sounds like you enjoy both types of speakers in itself says a lot and good information for people to have.

 

The way they would explain how they came to thier decision would still be multiple choice in a poll.

[klm]

3 hours ago, playdough said:

Sounds cool, I'll check that out. 

@85dB or less. 

It’s a classic and the good thing to know is that you can buy a pair and when you are dead, they can bury you in one. What’s not to love with the Dominator X-10!

[playdough]

HAHA, Ok, I get you now. 

Thanks

[BioBrian]

2 hours ago, playdough said:

Hi Brian, what sort of power on these Ported Subs ? Wouldn't happen to be housed in a light construction would it.

 

Subs are 15" drivers in 350 litre ported boxes. I think we decided (between me, resident gurus and WinISD) that 20 W was going to be enough to get volume and extension to desired limits. They have 300 Watts of AB at their disposal, so have a very comfortable life, hanging out off my wall/ceiling corners.

 

Actually, I suspect when the Venetian building collapsed at the end of Casino Royale, they may have used at least 21 W.

 

Light construction?? Sure, they are full of holes on the inside, but weighing 125 kg each and being rather slippery and having no handles, were quite a challenge to mount. Baffles are 48 mm thick, other surfaces 30 mm, bracing 18 mm, all Baltic Birch.

 

[playdough]

1 hour ago, BioBrian said:

Quite the Craftsman then, you have to be good to match the sheet grain across angled joints like you have.  Look fabulous,    2 overhead gantry cranes   serious. Hoisted off the ground plane is interesting.

I assume with a pass band from 12Hz they would sound remarkably "real, true to the fundamental", minimal boundary loading especially toward 20Hz and up. 

Dynamic range in available watts and normal listening in the first few watts. 

 

Huge space, which is a fairly open and relatively lightly constructed building. 

I've a theory speakers designed with a  much lower F3 , will integrate better in a lightly constructed Lounge. 

Conversely a sealed bass system in a cement/tiled Lounge may well intergrade better as it has less actual effect, or light the room up with nodes and nulls, with sub 30Hz, probably straight out of  the Retail box.  The big ported might need work to de tune it in the same area.

Just a theory.

Beautiful Subs, all that LF efficiency and LF extension with a pair of 15"s, special things, congrats.

 

 

 

 

[Keith_W]

I have added a poll to this thread since it was requested a few times. 

[POV]

7 minutes ago, Keith_W said:

I have added a poll to this thread since it was requested a few times. 

 

Hi Keith, I get the idea of the poll.  Personally I won’t vote though as there’s not an option for either poll question applicable to me.

[klm]

4 hours ago, playdough said:

HAHA, Ok, I get you now. 

Thanks

Bass you can feel, now where did I read that......

[playdough]

2 minutes ago, klm said:

Bass you can feel, now where did I read that.....

I call it tactile response, to the point of eyeball rattling, skeleton shaking and worse. 

[Keith_W]

1 hour ago, POV said:

Hi Keith, I get the idea of the poll.  Personally I won’t vote though as there’s not an option for either poll question applicable to me.

 

D'oh I forgot about open baffle speakers! I have edited the answers for the first question. How would you suggest I modify the second question to make it more applicable for others? 

[POV]

24 minutes ago, Keith_W said:

 

D'oh I forgot about open baffle speakers! I have edited the answers for the first question. How would you suggest I modify the second question to make it more applicable for others? 

From my point of view:

 

1) I own both so would like an option for both ported and sealed, and

2) I’d like an option for:  ‘don’t believe that one design philosophy is inherently ‘better’.

[andyr]

47 minutes ago, Keith_W said:

Doh, I forgot about open baffle speakers! I have edited the answers for the first question. How would you suggest I modify the second question to make it more applicable for others? 

 

I think you also need to edit Q2, Keith.  What you have now is:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I suggest - given your edit of Q1 - this needs to be become:

 

2.  Given no constraints of budget, size etc, do you think ported, sealed or 'other' speakers are better?

• Ported
• Sealed
• Open Baffle
• Transmission Line.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by andyr

[murrmax]

 

 

 

Quote

Dont get me wrong, I haven't said that it's impossible to design a sealed box speaker that has deep bass extension. Just that its "usually" the case that they will have limited extension.  Certainly the case for a given size.  The fact that the vast majority of speakers out there use a port to extend the bass confirms this. 

 

Actually a sealed design will have greater bass extension, however the ported speaker will be louder at specific frequencies frequency and loudness at a specific frequency are different things..  Most speakers use ports because it's more practical and cost effective for manufacturers to provide consumers with what they want and fits the use case.  

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

Ported

Sealed

Open Baffle

Transmission Line.

 

What about infinite baffle?

 

 

[Keith_W]

Thanks for your feedback @POV and @andyr. I have edited the poll questions.