Does quality matter with XLR cables?

[Demondes]

37 minutes ago, metal beat said:

Imo, start off with some good studio cables.

  Mogami 2549 XLR is extremely good with nice high frequency extension, excellent bass.

  Slightly relaxed top end say compared to lot more expensive Nordost Tyr.

 

  After that, add flavour to suit your system.

Yep factorysound has more bland looking mogami based XLR cables and places such as the below have more funky looking cables based around the  2549 mentioned by @metal beat

 

 I have no association with either shop and am certainly not pushing any brand, just trying to define a baseline for price:quality ratio that won’t break a budget and that I have personally used.
 

https://audiophileshop.com.au/products/copy-of-mogami-2534-balanced-interconnect-xlr-cable-tuned-pair-2?variant=39403299209289

[rantan]

9 minutes ago, tripitaka said:

 

Unsubstantiated premises used to draw a conclusion = logical fallacy. 

 

It is nothing of the sort,and your dissenting opinion does not make it a logical fallacy.

It is an opinion held by you but I have refrained from labelling your opinion as a logical fallacy out of respect.

[tripitaka]

Lest we forget, we had a con man operating on this site for YEARS and many of our most venerable members would never tire in recommending his cables whenever the topic arose, extolling the obvious improvements brought about by his products.  The con was finally exposed and we don't talk about it any more, but it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. 

 

@rantan

you may label me whatever you like, I am comfortable with my statements.

[rantan]

1 minute ago, tripitaka said:

 

you may label me whatever you like, I am comfortable with my statements.

Same here and same here.

 

So we differ, and life goes on.

That is why this place is good for mutual respect not fighting idealogical battles.

[andyr]

1 hour ago, rantan said:

So we differ, and life goes on.

That is why this place is good for mutual respect not fighting idealogical battles.

 

Maaate - "mutual respect" ... is that an oxymoron?  

 

And there are many battles fought here which I would call "ideological".  

 

The important thing is ... to not get upset when one's deeply-held beliefs are challenged by others who don't have the advantage of your upbringing and education.  

 

[joz]

2 hours ago, rantan said:

 

Because,  (as is your right), you don't see ( hear ) the benefit of superior cables. His point is that spending around $8K on a system makes it worthy of decent cables that won't limit the capabilities of the gear.

I would love the chance to hear $8k or even more for cables and how they could transform or even just not limit the capabilities of my setup?

Am open for a trial for an audition at anytime if someone can front up with the goodies. 
it would make a opportunity to show what spending 10x or more than what I have.

[SonicArt]

2 hours ago, tripitaka said:

Lest we forget, we had a con man operating on this site for YEARS and many of our most venerable members would never tire in recommending his cables whenever the topic arose, extolling the obvious improvements brought about by his products. 

I feel this needs to be addressed because it tarnishes anyone who makes cables in Australia. Incidentally the top of my list of reasons for not sponsoring sna was this exact topic, I voiced my concern to many old customers (more like friends and going back 30+ years in some cases) about how this issue would affect legitimate sellers, and how it would be easy for others to tarnish us all with a few simple words.

 

I have been making the Silver Line interconnect cable range since 1994, the original interconnect hadn't changed until this year. I have sold thousands of pairs, had reviews in 4 different languages, operated a regional office in SE Asia and had distributors selling the product in many countries. I wont go into the design or production of the raw cable materials as its all documented on the website and always has been.

 

While I appreciate a $4 piece of mogami may do the job admirably in carrying a signal, its not really comparable to a cable like mine, not in material quality, technology or cost to manufacture. It is however I feel reasonably comparable price wise if its being sold with a pretty PE sheath over it for $130 a pair, vs a $200pr of pure MilSpec multi cored dual run construction using some of the best materials and assembly techniques available along with a configuration I spent a long time working on back in the 90's.

 

I have deliberately kept the price low on my cables, in fact it hasnt really changed in over 10 years. I will never get rich from them but I sleep well.

[Demondes]

@SonicArt just had a look at what I presume is your website (based on your handle), the pricing is quite reasonable for rca or XLR cables.

 

 

[Cloth Ears]

14 hours ago, tripitaka said:

Lest we forget, we had a con man operating on this site for YEARS and many of our most venerable members would never tire in recommending his cables whenever the topic arose, extolling the obvious improvements brought about by his products.  The con was finally exposed and we don't talk about it any more, but it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. 

 

@rantan

you may label me whatever you like, I am comfortable with my statements.

 

14 hours ago, rantan said:

Same here and same here.

 

So we differ, and life goes on.

That is why this place is good for mutual respect not fighting idealogical battles.

Nicely sorted.

[Jason948]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:19 PM, 075Congo said:

Just thinking of the $$$ you have already invested in the Electrocompaniet amp (integrated ?) and the Focal Aria loudspeakers. Your choice of cabling (XLR plus loudspeaker cables) will be critical to your system performance. I'm guessing that $7K to $9K has been invested so far ? Would I spend less than $100 on XLR cables and go low on the cost of speaker cables ?? Would you?

You have a good point.  I would like a pair that are proportional in value and quality to my recent purchases.  I picked up the amp and speakers quite cheap I thought, so maybe i have the same luck with some interconnects.     The speakers were on a fire sale at just over 4K and the Electrocompaniet in perfect condition just over 1k. 

[Neo]

Tuned out. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Neo

[075Congo]

A good variety of XLR's available in the SNA Classifieds at the moment sub $500 mark. Accuphase , Atlas or Nordost Blue Heaven jump off the pages. Aurealis Audio would be nice but second-hand is difficult to grab. Good luck.

[tripitaka]

On 08/11/2023 at 6:39 PM, rantan said:

 

Because,  (as is your right), you don't see ( hear ) the benefit of superior cables. His point is that spending around $8K on a system makes it worthy of decent cables that won't limit the capabilities of the gear.

 

 

I thought I could respond to this, since my opinion is quite different to what @rantan claims my opinion to be. 

 

My belief has always been that changing  the resistance/impedance characteristics of a cable will result in differences in HF roll-off, that often WILL be audible. 

 

But the thing that grinds my gears is the idea that there is something intrinsically better about one shape of HF roll-off over another.

 

I mean, I get that someone may prefer a particular effect that a given cable provides in the context of their own system, but in what sense does that make it a 'superior' cable??!!  Particularly, as most of us will just tweak our EQ settings if we did wanted to change the HF roll-off (rather than randomly swapping out cables).

 

So the whole idea that cheap cables are somehow 'holding back you system' is misguided in my view.  If you don't have a broken solder joint, or a short circuit, or significant electrical interference then your signal is getting through just fine and is lacking for nothing. 

 

Of course, I understand if people want to buy a ruggedly constructed cable for their peace of mind over the long room, but that is a different issue again.  

 

[and my own system cost multiples of the OP's]

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by tripitaka

[rantan]

@tripitaka

 

I tried to ( and thought I had ) put this matter to rest. Unfortunately it seems not.

I respect your opinion, but it is different to my own, neither diminishes the other, but I obviously have no control over what perception you may have of my opinion.

 

I do not intend to nor do I  have any interest in, engaging in another debate. As I previously pointed out, mutual respect is the key here.

You have mine and that is all I can oversee or control.

 

Thanks.

[tripitaka]

1 hour ago, rantan said:

@tripitaka

 

I tried to ( and thought I had ) put this matter to rest. Unfortunately it seems not.

I respect your opinion, but it is different to my own, neither diminishes the other, but I obviously have no control over what perception you may have of my opinion.

 

I do not intend to nor do I  have any interest in, engaging in another debate. As I previously pointed out, mutual respect is the key here.

You have mine and that is all I can oversee or control.

 

Thanks.

 

Huh? I was trying to contribute to the thread topic by clarifying MY own opinion on the topic.  What's that to you?

Sheeesh.

 

 

 

 

[andyr]

4 hours ago, tripitaka said:

My belief has always been that changing the resistance/impedance characteristics of a cable will result in differences in HF roll-off, that often WILL be audible. 

 

If by 'cables', Brett, you mean:

 

*  spkr cables - then increasing the:

• resistance ... will simply reduce the volume level coming from the spkrs.
• capacitance ... may cause the amp to become unstable.
• and inductance ... will act as a brake on the flow of current along the cable.

 

*  but for interconnects, increasing the:

• resistance ... will have little effect (VdH makes/made some high resistance, carbon interconnects).
• capacitance ... will cause HF roll-off.
• whilst inductance ... will have little effect (as little current flows in interconnects).

 

4 hours ago, tripitaka said:

But the thing that grinds my gears is the idea that there is something intrinsically better about one shape of HF roll-off over another.

 

Agreed - any HF roll-off caused by cables is not ideal.

 

4 hours ago, tripitaka said:

So the whole idea that cheap cables are somehow 'holding back your system' is misguided in my view.  If you don't have a broken solder joint, or a short circuit, or significant electrical interference then your signal is getting through just fine and is lacking for nothing.

 

Some cables deliver the signal better than others; this is not due to faulty construction - or electrical interference - simply due to the fact that they use better quality components ... or a better geometry.  Stranded vs. solid-core is also a factor here.

 

4 hours ago, tripitaka said:

Of course, I understand if people want to buy a ruggedly constructed cable for their peace of mind over the long room, but that is a different issue again.  

 

As you say ... a rugged construction will probably have a longer life - but I suggest it has no influence on the sonic performance of the cable.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by andyr

[Addicted to music]

11 hours ago, andyr said:

 

*  but for interconnects, increasing the:

• resistance ... will have little effect (VdH makes/made some high resistance, carbon interconnects).
• capacitance ... will cause HF roll-off.
• whilst inductance ... will have little effect (as little current flows in interconnects).

 

 

Agreed - any HF roll-off caused by cables is not ideal.

 

 

 

RCA, XLR,  HF  roll off  is non existence in the Audio frequencies 20-20khz.   In fact if your discussing does quality matters?   Ruggedness helps for pro use,  but even different lengths doesn’t effect audio frequencies., unless you go stupid which most won’t: 20mtrs or greater.   Typical RCA is ruler flat to 200K between these brand cables with lengths of 1.5-4ft 

 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/battle-of-rca-cables-mogami-amazon-monoprice.27871/

Edited November 13, 2023 by Addicted to music

[tripitaka]

Good stuff and thanks for the corrections @andyr and @Addicted to music (yes Andy I had strayed into talking about speaker cables sorry). 

I am a punter and a non-expert who likes hearing good advice from trusted sources.

 

[Ars Paart]

16 hours ago, andyr said:

 

 

*  but for interconnects, increasing the:

• resistance ... will have little effect (VdH makes/made some high resistance, carbon interconnects).
• capacitance ... will cause HF roll-off.
• whilst inductance ... will have little effect (as little current flows in interconnects).

 

 

 

Capacitance of cables does cause high-frequency roll-off, true. For interconnects of reasonable length and a pre-amp with sensibly low output impedance it occurs way above audibility so hardly a concern.  There are a number of calculators lying around the intertubes, like this one.

 

[Addicted to music]

33 minutes ago, Ars Paart said:

 

Capacitance of cables does cause high-frequency roll-off, true. For interconnects of reasonable length and a pre-amp with sensibly low output impedance it occurs way above audibility so hardly a concern.  There are a number of calculators lying around the intertubes, like this one.

 

 

For a 600ohm impedance, 120pf/m  and 10m, well within the audio range with no effect…..

 

 

[Ittaku]

XLR quality matters, but its effect is very subtle, and nothing measurable. There are much bigger fish to fry and well constructed cables that meet spec are amply good until a system is otherwise complete and you're looking for some icing on the cake, or jewellery that makes your system look better.

[Ars Paart]

2 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

 

For a 600ohm impedance, 120pf/m  and 10m, well within the audio range with no effect…..

 

 

 

220kHZ? I assume you meant outside the audio range.  Unless you are a bat. 

[Addicted to music]

3 minutes ago, Ars Paart said:

220kHZ? I assume you meant outside the audio range.  Unless you are a bat. 

Im disappointed that my ancestry passed on the genetic DNA so I don’t have the skills as a bat.

[Jason948]

7 hours ago, Ittaku said:

XLR quality matters, but its effect is very subtle, and nothing measurable. There are much bigger fish to fry and well constructed cables that meet spec are amply good until a system is otherwise complete and you're looking for some icing on the cake, or jewellery that makes your system look better.

Thank you. That answers my question. 

[tripitaka]

How awesome that @Jason948 has  had his Q answered

Ittaku is very well respected, I would say.

 

I have a question for @andyr on this topic - which is that speaker signal is AC (that is, the current direction oscillates with the signal frequency) and shouldn't the same also be true for the both the DAC output signal and the preamp signal? In which case, everything you said about speaker cables should also apply to these interconnects as well (with the caveat that the effects will be less pronounced, due to the lengths being shorter).

Or am I missing something else here?

Thanks