Does quality matter with XLR cables?

[andyr]

Just now, tripitaka said:

I have a question for @andyr on this topic - which is that speaker signal is AC (that is, the current direction oscillates with the signal frequency)

 

I would think, Brett - a better description is ... the direction of the signal current oscillates (at any frequency)!

 

Just now, tripitaka said:

Or am I missing something else here?

 

In a word ... yes!  

 

Just now, tripitaka said:

and shouldn't the same also be true for the both the DAC output signal and the preamp signal?

 

Absoloootely!

 

Just now, tripitaka said:

In which case, everything you said about speaker cables should also apply to these interconnects as well

 

Xcept speaker cables carry high current ... whereas interconnects carry very low current.

 

Also, the Zout of a power amp (well, an ss one, anyway) is designed to be extremely low - given they are connected to spkrs - whereas a DAC or preamp expects to see a much, much higher Zin.

 

Just now, tripitaka said:

(with the caveat that the effects will be less pronounced, due to the lengths being shorter).

 

Yes, cable effects are less pronounced for a shorter cable, compared to a longer one ... but your thinking that interconnects are shorter than spkr cables is not necessarily true.

 

To whit:

• In my current house, the main analogue interconnects are 3-5m ... whilst my spkr cables are about 90cm.
• In my previous house, interconnects were 11m and spkr cables were about 1.2m.  (I tried it with short interconnects and long spkr cables - and this arrangement used to send my Naim amps into thermal shut-down!   )

 

[muon*]

Yeah, the relationship between amp and speakers is very different to between say a DAC and Amp.

[tripitaka]

2 hours ago, muon* said:

Yeah, the relationship between amp and speakers is very different to between say a DAC and Amp.

 

I'd be interested to hear about your expertise @muon* ?

[iwan targaryan]

I am not expert, just want to share, what I read in internet, the advantage for longer distance (let say more than 4m) XLR is better quality in deliver the signal, but if like only 2m, no different notice. Perhaps XLR is superior when attached in unit, is firm, while the rca is sometimes is not firm (but Taralab that has locking system will like XLR- hold stronger)

 

BUT, we need to mention the price range here.. if you compare XLR $150 with RCA $1000, for sure the rca will sound better (in my newbie opinion)

 

 

 

[gemini07]

5 minutes ago, iwan targaryan said:

 

BUT, we need to mention the price range here.. if you compare XLR $150 with RCA $1000, for sure the rca will sound better (in my newbie opinion)

 

 

 

And that my friend is where people are so easily misled right across the board. Price does not necessarily equate to better quality, and a higher price is no guarantee that more expensive gear will sound better in your set up. I've heard $350 secondhand speakers sound better than $7000.00 new ones, and a $200.00 Mogami speaker cable sound far better than an exotic European $2,500 pair. And so on.

 

By the way, thanks for your contribution to SN and I hope you enjoy your time here.

[SonicArt]

9 hours ago, gemini07 said:

And that my friend is where people are so easily misled right across the board.

And the misleading is often due to all the total BS spouted about the cables magical properties etc. Last week I had a known brand in hand, as I understand its around 900 bucks for a 1m pair, inside was some plastic tube with braid over it, 2 copper wires running end to end for the connection and a resistor across the terminals at one end. Looked pretty though...

[SonicArt]

9 hours ago, iwan targaryan said:

I am not expert, just want to share, what I read in internet, the advantage for longer distance (let say more than 4m) XLR is better quality in deliver the signal, but if like only 2m, no different notice. Perhaps XLR is superior when attached in unit, is firm, while the rca is sometimes is not firm (but Taralab that has locking system will like XLR- hold stronger)

BUT, we need to mention the price range here.. if you compare XLR $150 with RCA $1000, for sure the rca will sound better (in my newbie opinion)

Hello Iwan!

Read everything with a very open mind, and with an understanding that those writing it often are simply repeating what they heard, there is often no first hand experience or its a very small sample they are speaking from.

XLR connections can sound superior, if the equipment is truly differential balanced in/out. For example my Electrocompaniet power amp sounds more open and dynamic when running balanced in from a true balanced preamp, Electro designed it to be balanced and it works best this way.

There are however products out there that claim to be balanced but simply use transformers or opamps to create a balanced signal at the output and are not true differential designs from in to out. Not saying this is always bad, I dont know enough about the design of balanced circuits to have an infallible opinion

 

I had a customer order XLR and RCA cables for his system, he was not happy with the sound, something wasn't right, he swapped the XLR over for the RCA and things improved markedly, he then read up on his equipment and discovered it wasn't a true differential balanced circuit but an opamp based one. In his case the single ended output sounded better.

 

Connections are important, I dont think one is better than the other mechanically in the home audio situation, but quality of plug can vary a lot and with RCA this can cause more issue with noise etc than XLR (in my experience). As you are in SE Asia I would suggest one very good maintenance task to perform is the cleaning of all connections regularly, speaker and electronics connections, its amazing how a dirty/corroded RCA plug can cause a myriad of strange noises, dropouts and general degradation of your sound.

 

I spent a lot of time in SE Asia years ago, promoting and selling my cable products across the region, I never got to Jakarta unfortunately. I was actually there a few weeks ago but no time to go hunting for hi-end audio, would love to know where all the big dealers are in the city, maybe you could PM me about it, dont want to take the thread off topic.

[Ars Paart]

6 hours ago, SonicArt said:

Looked pretty though...

Design goals met.

[iwan targaryan]

On 16/11/2023 at 4:40 AM, SonicArt said:

Hello Iwan!

Read everything with a very open mind, and with an understanding that those writing it often are simply repeating what they heard, there is often no first hand experience or its a very small sample they are speaking from.

XLR connections can sound superior, if the equipment is truly differential balanced in/out. For example my Electrocompaniet power amp sounds more open and dynamic when running balanced in from a true balanced preamp, Electro designed it to be balanced and it works best this way.

There are however products out there that claim to be balanced but simply use transformers or opamps to create a balanced signal at the output and are not true differential designs from in to out. Not saying this is always bad, I dont know enough about the design of balanced circuits to have an infallible opinion

 

I had a customer order XLR and RCA cables for his system, he was not happy with the sound, something wasn't right, he swapped the XLR over for the RCA and things improved markedly, he then read up on his equipment and discovered it wasn't a true differential balanced circuit but an opamp based one. In his case the single ended output sounded better.

 

Connections are important, I dont think one is better than the other mechanically in the home audio situation, but quality of plug can vary a lot and with RCA this can cause more issue with noise etc than XLR (in my experience). As you are in SE Asia I would suggest one very good maintenance task to perform is the cleaning of all connections regularly, speaker and electronics connections, its amazing how a dirty/corroded RCA plug can cause a myriad of strange noises, dropouts and general degradation of your sound.

 

I spent a lot of time in SE Asia years ago, promoting and selling my cable products across the region, I never got to Jakarta unfortunately. I was actually there a few weeks ago but no time to go hunting for hi-end audio, would love to know where all the big dealers are in the city, maybe you could PM me about it, dont want to take the thread off topic.

HI,

Sorry.. if is not clear what I meant.

What I said is related  with my gear, I think all are fully balance circuit (ARC Ref.9CD to Preamp Aesthetix Calypso Signature. With this condition, XLR will be better sound?

 

iwan

[SonicArt]

8 hours ago, iwan targaryan said:

HI,

With this condition, XLR will be better sound?

iwan

maybe see if you can borrow some cables from friends or maybe a local shop you have a good relation with,  and test it out,  getting rca and xlr of the same cable type would be ideal.  I wouldn't want to say yes,  xkr will sound better because I haven't tried it with your gear,  and while we can make educated guesses I would rather test and listen for myself!

[tripitaka]

On 14/11/2023 at 12:20 PM, Addicted to music said:

 

For a 600ohm impedance, 120pf/m  and 10m, well within the audio range with no effect…..

 

 

 

Just mucking about with this formula makes clear that a higher Zout brings the HF roll-off closer to the audible range and so is more likely (or at least, 'less impossible') to represent a problem for Interconnects than speaker cables.

 

@andyr I think you had it the wrong way round in your original answer to my question, but you've edited the comment so all is fine again.  I had wondered momentarily whether I was going mad, but I think the universe has righted itself

[Edit or maybe I had just misread your original comment, anything is possible]

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by tripitaka

[andyr]

20 minutes ago, tripitaka said:

Just mucking about with this formula makes clear that a higher Zout brings the HF roll-off closer to the audible range and so is more likely (or at least, 'less impossible') to represent a problem for Interconnects than speaker cables.

 

Yes - which is why using a tube pre (which typically has a Zout in the 1-2k range) can be a problem with some ss power amps (which have, say, a 10k Zin - like ME).

 

20 minutes ago, tripitaka said:

@andyr I think you had it the wrong way round in your original answer to my question, but you've edited the comment so all is fine again.  I had wondered momentarily whether I was going mad, but I think the universe has righted itself

[Edit or maybe I had just misread your original comment, anything is possible]

 

As you say, Brett - anything is possible!  

 

[Addicted to music]

On 16/11/2023 at 2:32 PM, Ars Paart said:

Design goals met.

Takes a lot of effort to get copper into a garden hose and make it look like it’s gonna out do other copper wires….