System for a cafe

[Bcdesign]

Hey guys,

 

Wanted to get your opinions on a system for a cafe.

 

Obviously, the speakers will be in less than optimal positions, will probably need more than 2 placed around the place and there will be no room treatment.

(Have yet to find a space yet… still early days).

 

Is there still an argument to set up a cool system (other than looking cool) or should I just grab a bunch of Sonos?

…and if so, what would be the best way to set up multiple speakers to the same source?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[Cloth Ears]

A few things to think about (out loud)...

- what budget

- what sort of space are you thinking of

- what sort of music will you be playing

- how loud

- what customers are you looking to attract/drive away

[Ian McP]

couple of big budget systems in Melbourne

 

High Note Northcote

https://beat.com.au/high-note-is-northcotes-brand-new-live-music-venue-in-a-heritage-listed-building/

 

Waxflower Brunswick

https://waxflowerbar.com.au/

https://waxflowerbar.com.au/music/

[audiofeline]

No room treatment? 

I would appreciate a cafe that has treatment to tame echos so conversation is easier to hear. 

[vinilink]

The one I can think of to recommend it to you would be a Marshall Woburn iii bluetooth speakers. This wireless speaker would fill the room of reasonable size with the sounds it produces. Sound wise, pretty good to my ears.

https://www.marshallheadphones.com/au/en/woburn-iii.html

 

[Bcdesign]

1 hour ago, Cloth Ears said:

A few things to think about (out loud)...

- what budget

- what sort of space are you thinking of

- what sort of music will you be playing

- how loud

- what customers are you looking to attract/drive away

3-4k 

Hopefully a square space about 50m2

Mix of jazzy, hip hop, RnB vibe

Loud but not too loud that having a conversations wouldn’t be possible.

Haha! Looking to attract those that are willing to pay for quality.

 

56 minutes ago, Ian McP said:

couple of big budget systems in Melbourne

 

High Note Northcote

https://beat.com.au/high-note-is-northcotes-brand-new-live-music-venue-in-a-heritage-listed-building/

 

Waxflower Brunswick

https://waxflowerbar.com.au/

https://waxflowerbar.com.au/music/

 

Awesome. Thank you for these! 
Those Waxflower speakers are beautiful! Definitely out of our budget at the moment. 
 

3 minutes ago, audiofeline said:

No room treatment? 

I would appreciate a cafe that has treatment to tame echos so conversation is easier to hear. 

 

Good point! Treatment for echo and reverb will probably be a good addition, probably won’t be music focused though as there won’t be a MLP.

[vinilink]

Here is an idea of a sound system you can consider for your cafe like on the photos if the space and the budget can be  stretched.

I  was in this Analogue Roasting cafe in Seoul, Korea before the pandemic and was enjoying to music with nice coffee that I could have stayed longer if my wife wasn't with me.

 

[Bcdesign]

8 minutes ago, vinilink said:

The one I can think of to recommend it to you would be a Marshall Woburn iii bluetooth speakers. This wireless speaker would fill the room of reasonable size with the sounds it produces. Sound wise, pretty good to my ears.

https://www.marshallheadphones.com/au/en/woburn-iii.html

 

This looks interesting!

Ease of an all in one that doesn’t compromise on looks. Nice.

Thank you for the suggestion.

[Bcdesign]

2 minutes ago, vinilink said:

Here is an idea of a sound system you can consider for your cafe like on the photos if the space and the budget can be  stretched.

I  was in this Analogue Roasting cafe in Seoul, Korea before the pandemic and was enjoying to music with nice coffee that I could have stayed longer if my wife wasn't with me.

 

Awesome vibe.

 

I guess I’m wondering is there a real benefit to having an awesome/expensive system when the room and listening position won’t be optimal.

[BioBrian]

9 minutes ago, Bcdesign said:

hip hop

 

1 hour ago, Cloth Ears said:

what customers are you looking to attract/drive away

 

[vinilink]

1 minute ago, Bcdesign said:

Awesome vibe.

 

I guess I’m wondering is there a real benefit to having an awesome/expensive system when the room and listening position won’t be optimal.

Overall, the sound was pretty good using tube amps, but mainly it can be used as a background music, even though it would be an overkill for a cafe. I just loved it as it sounded pretty good and not looking for a serious listening session. I will be in Korea next week and most likely drop into this coffee shop again and few others. I know that there are many cafes have nice retro style system and, if I chance upon them, I will take some photos and send them to you if that can be any help to you.

[Bcdesign]

35 minutes ago, vinilink said:

Overall, the sound was pretty good using tube amps, but mainly it can be used as a background music, even though it would be an overkill for a cafe. I just loved it as it sounded pretty good and not looking for a serious listening session. I will be in Korea next week and most likely drop into this coffee shop again and few others. I know that there are many cafes have nice retro style system and, if I chance upon them, I will take some photos and send them to you if that can be any help to you.

That would be awesome. Thank you so much.

 

@BioBrian Oh come on! Now don’t be like that. Haha.

[Luc]

Unless you're going to go analogue and have a TT set up like quite a few hip cafe's have now, then you're looking at a digital system. Sonos would be fine, just set some Spotify playlists to run and you're in business. Audio-Pro are another alternative to the ubiquitous Sonos models and the sound they produce  is why they keep taking out the top awards in active digital (portable) speakers. They produce more than enough sound for a cafe enclosure and they wont set you back 3 or 4K.

Will you have time to change records constantly if you go the hipster analogue way? Only you can decide that.

https://www.audiopro.com/en/

If you want to invest in a pro system then you could enquire with these guys>>> https://www.aptech.com.au/cornered-audio

Local cafe where I am uses Audio Pros(two speakers) and they run Spotify connect and they have a request list. A little sign gives the cafe request website and punters text a request and the owners of course control the volume. It's quite a warm atmosphere actually and friendly with the volume at a low enough level so you're not speaking over it.

[Bcdesign]

20 minutes ago, Luc said:

Unless you're going to go analogue and have a TT set up like quite a few hip cafe's have now, then you're looking at a digital system. Sonos would be fine, just set some Spotify playlists to run and you're in business. Audio-Pro are another alternative to the ubiquitous Sonos models and the sound they produce  is why they keep taking out the top awards in active digital (portable) speakers. They produce more than enough sound for a cafe enclosure and they wont set you back 3 or 4K.

Will you have time to change records constantly if you go the hipster analogue way? Only you can decide that.

https://www.audiopro.com/en/

If you want to invest in a pro system then you could enquire with these guys>>> https://www.aptech.com.au/cornered-audio

Local cafe where I am uses Audio Pros(two speakers) and they run Spotify connect and they have a request list. A little sign gives the cafe request website and punters text a request and the owners of course control the volume. It's quite a warm atmosphere actually and friendly with the volume at a low enough level so you're not speaking over it.

Thank you, another great suggestion.

Will look into.

 

The inner hipster in me would love to geek out with a full analogue system but like you said, after the first few months with a line at the counter, the last thing I want to be doing is worrying about flipping the record.

 

Thank you

[Snoopy8]

I assume the cafe will be in the central coast?  I doubt you will you have a large hipster audience like the Waxflower Brunswick (in Melbourne) to draw upon? So, geeking out is unlikely to bring in music customers in sufficient numbers.

 

Rather than Sonos, suggest going BlueSound with BluOS.  You can start out with their powered speakers, which sound better than Sonos, and is multi room capable.

https://www.bluesound.com/wireless-speakers/

 

Over time, you can expand to include a stereo setup using NAD components such as this

https://nadelectronics.com/product/m10-v2/

and add speakers of your choice. 

[sdotmouse]

Central Coast,  main aim would be to repel the drug addicts

 

s.m

 

 

[POV]

5 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

I assume the cafe will be in the central coast?  I doubt you will you have a large hipster audience like the Waxflower Brunswick (in Melbourne) to draw upon? So, geeking out is unlikely to bring in music customers in sufficient numbers.

 

Rather than Sonos, suggest going BlueSound with BluOS.  You can start out with their powered speakers, which sound better than Sonos, and is multi room capable.

https://www.bluesound.com/wireless-speakers/

 

Over time, you can expand to include a stereo setup using NAD components such as this

https://nadelectronics.com/product/m10-v2/

and add speakers of your choice. 

Came here to say this exactly.  I see no god reason to purchase Sonos, wohen Bluesound is superior in essentially every regard.  The only thing that Sonos had going was its interface but now with release of Bluos 4.0 Bluesound has even taken that mantle in my view.

 

i would go Bluesound for sure OP.

Edited November 22, 2023 by POV

[davewantsmoore]

12 hours ago, Bcdesign said:

Loud but not too loud that having a conversations wouldn’t be possible.

Bluesound, sonos, and most "hifi speakers" won't produce enough clean SPL for this, assuming your space is not tiny.

 

So I would be reconsidering your SPL requirement, or looking towards something like this https://cannonsound.com.au/products/qsc-k12-2-12-2-way-2000watt-powered-abs-portable-speaker-with-dsp

 

 

 

 

[Cloth Ears]

12 hours ago, BioBrian said:

12 hours ago, Bcdesign said:

hip hop

13 hours ago, Cloth Ears said:

- what customers are you looking to attract/drive away

Not necessarily...it's often just spoken word R&B. So, if it's not to shouty it would simply blend in. And remember, a lot of the current stuff that sells (and is on radio) is spoken word - someone must like it...

[BLAH BLAH]

How does this all work then??!

A Cafe selling background music...or a Cafe selling food?!?

A Cafe with $4000 worth of stereo gear playing background music?!?

If it's simply  background music/noise/filler get a TV, FM Radio and/or a boom box playing a CD of the greatest hits from the 60/70/80's...

My idea of a successful Cafe is one with a fast turnover of paying cu$tomer$...and that being the case the sole focus here ought to be on food, quality, speedy service!

No hanging about waiting, waiting, waiting to take your order!

A Cafe with a $4000 stereo gear system that encourages the paying customer to squat and listen at a table whilst nursing a slowly sipped coffee...only slows/prevents other ca$h carrying cu$tomer$...from entering and willing to spend their monie$!

The Cafe's food would be what I would concentrate on first...you live and die...by its quality and its service!

Having established the Cafe's clientele...I would then venture into the more esoteric fields of commerce!

Good luck!

[POV]

4 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

Bluesound, sonos, and most "hifi speakers" won't produce enough clean SPL for this, assuming your space is not tiny.

 

So I would be reconsidering your SPL requirement, or looking towards something like this https://cannonsound.com.au/products/qsc-k12-2-12-2-way-2000watt-powered-abs-portable-speaker-with-dsp

 

 

 

 

Disagree with this approach.  This locates the source of music to a single point source so it will be too loud near to it or too quiet a distance away.

 

For cafe vibes you want it to be relatively chilled and relaxed background type tunes that create good vibe without creating an overly noisy environment.    
 

By utilising multiple speakers in combination strategically placed you get better control of overall volume across the space as you can level each speaker separately.  
 

In a medium sized cafe space something like 3-4 Flex 2i couple with 1-2 Pulse Sub+ will give you excellent control and very good sound quality.  Far better solution than some high powered single source IMO.

 

 

 

[Anton Mullet]

If you spend the dosh, you'll get volume without distortion= conversation is possible at higher volume. If you've ever heard a good Jamaican sound system, they are a few in Melbourne now, you can have a conversation right in front of them at insane volume as there's no distortion. Of course that's in front of the bass bins, if the mid or high horns were at ear  level, that wouldn't be possible.

The Superwax minis could be your solution but are still at just under $ 15k.

Pitt and Giblin specialise in room treatment as well to tame the usual terrible reverberation in cafes. 

 

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, POV said:

This locates the source of music to a single point source

No... use multiple.

Put one in every location you would have put any other type of speaker.

 

1 hour ago, POV said:

For cafe vibes you want it to be relatively chilled and relaxed background type tunes

Agreed, strongly.... but the brief is SPL high enough for a conversation to be impossible.

 

1 hour ago, POV said:

By utilising multiple speakers in combination strategically placed

Yes, that's what I'm suggesting.... just that unless the space is quite small, then the previously suggested speakers will not be capable of the SPL (vs distortion).

 

1 hour ago, POV said:

you get better control of overall volume across the space as you can level each speaker separately.  

Yes, very important.  The speakers I've recommended come with level and EQ controls for this reason.

[davewantsmoore]

34 minutes ago, Anton Mullet said:

you can have a conversation right in front of them at insane volume as there's no distortion

Yes.   This is what lead me to the recommendation I made (or something like that), as it will put out high SPL (eg. 105dB @ 4m) without distortion..... whereas the other recommendations will sound terrible at high SPL (as we have all likely heard in our travels.... one of my local bars runs a Sonos at ~100dB when it gets hopping, and most punters feel like they are being punched in the face).

 

But specific recommendations will depend a heap on the size of the room(s), how much space there is for each speaker.... and what the real SPL requirements is (I've taken it literally, so far).

[Bcdesign]

1 hour ago, BLAH BLAH said:

How does this all work then??!

A Cafe selling background music...or a Cafe selling food?!?

A Cafe with $4000 worth of stereo gear playing background music?!?

If it's simply  background music/noise/filler get a TV, FM Radio and/or a boom box playing a CD of the greatest hits from the 60/70/80's...

My idea of a successful Cafe is one with a fast turnover of paying cu$tomer$...and that being the case the sole focus here ought to be on food, quality, speedy service!

No hanging about waiting, waiting, waiting to take your order!

A Cafe with a $4000 stereo gear system that encourages the paying customer to squat and listen at a table whilst nursing a slowly sipped coffee...only slows/prevents other ca$h carrying cu$tomer$...from entering and willing to spend their monie$!

The Cafe's food would be what I would concentrate on first...you live and die...by its quality and its service!

Having established the Cafe's clientele...I would then venture into the more esoteric fields of commerce!

Good luck!

Totally agree, although there is a PRaT of the hospitality world called vibe. 
If your coffee and food are good, service and banter are on point, vibe can certainly help to give advantage over the comp.

Thats why cafes/restaurants pay so much for fit out. The vibe factor is real. 
 

Thanks everyone for all your input, knew you guys would give me some solutions I can think over.