Lampizator Owners & Discussion Thread

[Silver Audiophile]

28 minutes ago, Gryffles said:

A bit of context is required. 
 

There are electrolytic caps after the rectifier and also after the filter chokes. The film caps are in the last position. 

 

The Fezz dac costs $4500 and an Lampi Atlantic or Baltic are 6000 euro ($9700 aud) so over twice the price.

 

A Big 5 similar to the pics you’ve posted cost $6850 in Nth America when released ($10500 aud) and that was many years ago now so would be significantly more today.

 

So the Fezz dac is not so bad and should be judged on its sound at its price point. 
 

I’m certainly not trying to dismiss what you’ve written as I agree that some of the older Lampizators are very, very good value and built like battle ships. In fact the brands build quality is excellent 

Just to point out a couple of things.

The caps used in that Big 6's rectifier section example are far superior to the one's used in the Fezz. Not all electrolyte caps are the same. Some cost 50c, other $20 or $30 or much more (as you are aware from your upgrading cap journey).

I was comparing today's used prices of older big models with current new Fezz prices (completely fair comparison as buyers today have this choice).

You mentioned the newer Baltics model. I didn't address these newer models in the post above. The smaller chassis, extensive use of PCBs even for the analog output stage, switch to a new DAC chipset (engine 11) after their old Japanese sourced Analog Devices chip supplier factory burnt down (at the start of Covid). The latest gen 4 Amber DAC has more etched top end, but falls short for the visceral organic tonally full satisfying mids and bottom end to my ears.

 

[frankn]

Yes I spent some time looking on Lampi site at 2nd hand gear and found the pricing to be higher than the Fezz models. I do understand the question of quality but my feeling is Lampi wouldn’t be supplying/supporting the build if they didn’t have confidence in it. 
Don’t knock it too much until you’ve heard it.  
On the web I wouldn’t trust purchasing from from some countries, and, from the USA I don’t want the hassle of voltage issues. 

[Silver Audiophile]

1 hour ago, frankn said:

Yes I spent some time looking on Lampi site at 2nd hand gear and found the pricing to be higher than the Fezz models. I do understand the question of quality but my feeling is Lampi wouldn’t be supplying/supporting the build if they didn’t have confidence in it. 
Don’t knock it too much until you’ve heard it.  
On the web I wouldn’t trust purchasing from from some countries, and, from the USA I don’t want the hassle of voltage issues. 

You are right, I should listen to the new Fezz DAC, even if it's mostly an empty box on the inside. However, given the new Lampizator Amber is vastly superior in design and parts, plus I wasn't satisfied with that DAC. In addition, I own an Abbas, ANK, and Lampi DAC- all great sounding full tube DACs with their own unique house sounds. What are the odds I'd be pleased with new house of Fezz?

BTW- if you do buy a used Lampi from a seller in Europe, have it sent to Lampi in Poland. Others have done this and were very happy with the service and dealings.

 

Edited November 29, 2024 by Silver Audiophile

[Gryffles]

1 hour ago, Silver Audiophile said:

Just to point out a couple of things.

The caps used in that Big 6's rectifier section example are far superior to the one's used in the Fezz. Not all electrolyte caps are the same. Some cost 50c, other $20 or $30 or much more (as you are aware from your upgrading cap journey).

I was comparing today's used prices of older big models with current new Fezz prices (completely fair comparison as buyers today have this choice).

You mentioned the newer Baltics model. I didn't address these newer models in the post above. The smaller chassis, extensive use of PCBs even for the analog output stage, switch to a new DAC chipset (engine 11) after their old Japanese sourced Analog Devices chip supplier factory burnt down (at the start of Covid). The latest gen 4 Amber DAC has more etched top end, but falls short for the visceral organic tonally full satisfying mids and bottom end to my ears.

 

What are the caps used in the Fezz dac?

 

Yes, I am aware of the price diff in some caps. 
 

I’ve never heard a Lampi Amber so can’t comment. 

 

My Lampi Golden Gate was made in 2015 or 2016 and uses a pcb for the analog output stage among other things. The change to pcb’s happened a long time ago 

[frankn]

@Silver Audiophile given your inherent bias the listening would have to be double-blind. 
Im not saying it’s out there to beat a full blown Lampi. It is a potential gateway to the design goals of Lampazitor. For years I owned and enjoyed Earle Weston Topaz mono blocks (beautifully made, point-to-point, and surprisingly sparse internally, lots of “air” inside), I’ve owned a heavily modded tubed amp and I do own a hybrid pre-amp (I owned and had restored to new ME 850, 1400) so I’m not completely unfamiliar with good builds and tubes. 
perhaps I should add the extra bucks to purchase a certified 2nd hand Amber 4 or above.  I have the option to return if I don’t like the sound so will wait and see. 
I’ve learned a bit reading this thread and consequently the Lampazitor site and other reviews. 
on the question of paid reviews, we shouldn’t believe the Lampi reviews then??

[Silver Audiophile]

1 minute ago, frankn said:

on the question of paid reviews, we shouldn’t believe the Lampi reviews then??

I'm sorry if i come across as 'biased'.

Keep in mind, I'm not paid to give my opinion here. I speak for my own. I don't mind either way how you spend your money. It is your money after all, not my own. I have these discussion with my sister all the time. She sits on the board of a ASX200 listed company and has a double major in Marketing (amongst her many other atributes). Paid reviews, marketing, its an absolutely fascinating area of study and how it owns and sways a piece of consumers mind.

SNA, has joined with about 6 other hifi publications to vow not be swayed by who's purchasing adverts on their platform (from influencing their product reviews). Thumb up to those publications. To vast rest, they are doing a profound disservice to their readers.

 

 

[frankn]

@Silver Audiophile you don’t come across as biased, you are , as we all are. 
 

[Anthony1]

Fezz Dacs (designed by Lampi) again - 

 

I see HiFi Connoisseur in Brisbane suburbia now has both Fezz Equinox models to audition - the single tube output (ECC82/12AU7) and very recently the balanced dual tube output model.

 

As the design uses old musical Burr-Brown DAC chips, this is one clear differentiator to modern Lampizator big boy designs.

Sure the Fezz Equinox is not the last word in resolution but gives an overall satisfying musical listen, especially through the shops ‘enlightening’ Avantgarde Duo2 horn active speakers.

 

I’ve experienced the Equinox single valve only, and look forward to hearing the more expensive balanced version.

Going all the way to the opposite end of Lukasz Fikis designs, luckily I can visit a friend to experience the big (no huge) Pacific 2 Lampi, with it’s superbly esoteric design and heavenly sound quality.

[Silver Audiophile]

3 hours ago, Gryffles said:

My Lampi Golden Gate was made in 2015 or 2016 and uses a pcb for the analog output stage among other things. The change to pcb’s happened a long time ago 

Rags to riches story. Lukasz' company grew very quickly since 2011. Point-to-point (P2P) wiring will be more desirable to PCBs (for sound), however, pressures of order flow and difficulty recruiting new staff for the laborious task of P2P is not practical.

When you watch his numerous interviews online, Lukasz has his heart in the right place. The realities of a now larger fast-growing companies mean, more resources inevitably be diverted to marketing, show attendances, advertising, distributors, and retail fat. One of the interesting things to read on the Lampizator website, is the mention that newer generations in each line mean easier to manufacture (not superior sound). 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2024 by Silver Audiophile

[Silver Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Anthony1 said:

As the design uses old musical Burr-Brown DAC chips, this is one clear differentiator to modern Lampizator big boy designs.

Sure the Fezz Equinox is not the last word in resolution but gives an overall satisfying musical listen, especially through the shops ‘enlightening’ Avantgarde Duo2 horn active speakers.

Going all the way to the opposite end of Lukasz Fikis designs, luckily I can visit a friend to experience the big (no huge) Pacific 2 Lampi, with it’s superbly esoteric design and heavenly sound quality.

Older Lampi's uses Japanese AKM DAC chips (before the fire destroyed the factory unfortunately in 2020).

I would say the AKM chips in the Lampi's aren't harsh or edgy in anyway. They have a warm organic, tonally full, slightly dark sound to my ear. The Fezz uses a Burr-Brown PCM 1794 chip.

My experiences with Burr-Brown chips are more limited. Below I ran query of Burr-Brown DAC chips Vs AKM DAC chips for sound character (Grok 2 Mini AI). It returned the following (harvested from 15 websites and user online forums):

 

When discussing the sound character of DAC chips from AKM (Asahi Kasei Microdevices) versus Burr-Brown (now part of Texas Instruments), audiophiles often highlight subtle differences that can influence the listening experience. Here's an overview based on community insights and discussions:

AKM Chips:

Sound Signature: AKM chips, particularly their Velvet Sound series, are often described as having a smooth, warm, and natural sound character. 
They tend to provide a fuller bass response and a slightly softer treble, which can contribute to a more musical and less analytical sound profile.
Users often praise AKM for its depth and dynamic range, suggesting a rich and engaging soundstage.
Perception: Many listeners feel that AKM DACs have a more analog-like quality, which can be appealing for those who prefer a warmer, less digital sound. This characteristic is especially noted in their high-end offerings like the AK4499 series.

Burr-Brown Chips:

Sound Signature: Burr-Brown DACs, especially the older models like the PCM series, are frequently described as having a detailed and precise sound.
They are known for their accuracy and transparency, offering a clean and neutral sound profile which might highlight the recording's quality in a more analytical manner.
Burr-Brown chips can sometimes be perceived as having a brighter or more extended high-frequency response compared to AKM.
Perception: Fans of Burr-Brown chips often appreciate their ability to reproduce detail with clarity, although some might find them less warm or forgiving than AKM chips. The PCM1704 and PCM1792 are classic examples cited for their high-resolution capabilities.

Key Points to Consider:

Subjectivity: The perception of sound character can be highly subjective. Listening conditions, the specific model of the DAC, accompanying circuitry, and personal preference all play significant roles in how these chips are perceived.
Implementation: The sound quality isn't solely determined by the chip itself but also by how it's implemented in the DAC's design. Power supply, output stage, and other components can significantly alter the final sound.
Evolution: Both manufacturers have produced multiple generations of DACs, and newer chips might not follow the same sound character as their predecessors. For example, newer ESS Sabre chips have often replaced Burr-Brown in many applications, affecting the sound character discussion.
User Reports: There's a consensus in forums like Head-Fi and Reddit that:
AKM chips might offer a more pleasing, musical sound for those who prefer warmth and smoothness.

Burr-Brown, especially in its heyday, was celebrated for its precision and detail, potentially offering a more analytical listening experience.

Remember, these descriptions are generalizations based on user experiences and community feedback, and individual products might vary. The best approach to understanding which chip better suits your taste would be through direct comparison or reviews where both chips are used in similar setups.

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2024 by Silver Audiophile

[Gryffles]

21 minutes ago, Silver Audiophile said:

Rags to riches story. Lukasz' company grew very quickly since 2011. Point-to-point (P2P) wiring will be more desirable to PCBs (for sound), however, pressures of order flow and difficulty recruiting new staff for the laborious task of P2P is not practical.

When you watch his numerous interviews online, Lukasz has his heart in the right place. The realities of a now larger fast-growing companies mean, more resources inevitably be diverted to marketing, show attendances, advertising, distributors, and retail fat. One of the interesting things to read on the Lampizator website, is the mention that newer generations in each line mean easier to manufacture (not superior sound). 

 

 

 

Yes, most are familiar with Lampizators story. Great story it is too.

 

Again, what are the caps used in the Fezz dac? I’m only asking as I’m interested to know what these ‘inferior’ caps that you mention are. 

[Anthony1]

@Silver Audiophile Thats a very smart AI response. Thank you.

[Silver Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Gryffles said:

Yes, most are familiar with Lampizators story. Great story it is too.

Again, what are the caps used in the Fezz dac? I’m only asking as I’m interested to know what these ‘inferior’ caps that you mention are. 

Process of elimination. They're not United Chemi-cons. The white writing on those runs perpendicular to the thick white strip.

They're probably not Nichicon HZ or FG caps. They have long oval shapes on the white strip, not outline arrows.

They're not Audio Note caps. Not Rubicon caps either (different pattern on the white stripe with those).

 

 

 

[Silver Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Anthony1 said:

@Silver Audiophile Thats a very smart AI response. Thank you.

I use ChatGPT 4 usually. Useful tools, notwithstanding their limitations and errors. 

However, recently I started using Grok 2 mini (free now with any X account user).

I think it lives up to other users' experiences. Grok 2 has the edge for science, math and engineering queries. 
Grok also has the edge for up to the minute accuracy too given it also harvests cues from X users accounts too.

 

 

[Gryffles]

11 minutes ago, Silver Audiophile said:

Process of elimination. They're not United Chemi-cons. The white writing on those runs perpendicular to the thick white strip.

They're probably not Nichicon HZ or FG caps. They have long oval shapes on the white strip, not outline arrows.

They're not Audio Note caps. Not Rubicon caps either (different pattern on the white stripe with those).

 

 

 

Yeah I can’t tell from that pic either. I thought maybe Elna but not sure

[frankn]

If you read the comments here on SNA of the Burr-Brown PCM chips (1702, 1704) in NOS / R2R implementations they are almost the opposite POV of what your search returned.  
So who to believe?  Given I have a couple of DAC in the house, one a software based DAC, one a PCM 1702 NOS, R2R  I can compare/contrast a newcomer and come to a conclusion.   Having looked at the Lampi site guarantee about purchasing a model from anywhere I might try a proper Lampi in the future. 

[Silver Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, frankn said:

If you read the comments here on SNA of the Burr-Brown PCM chips (1702, 1704) in NOS / R2R implementations they are almost the opposite POV of what your search returned.  
So who to believe?  Given I have a couple of DAC in the house, one a software based DAC, one a PCM 1702 NOS, R2R  I can compare/contrast a newcomer and come to a conclusion.   Having looked at the Lampi site guarantee about purchasing a model from anywhere I might try a proper Lampi in the future. 

I wouldn't give too much weight to the AI generated responses. They are a start and prompt to dig deeper and later listen to the real deal.

I know from my email exchanges with Mr Abbas in Ukraine, he suggested I go for the PCM 63 chip given my preference for a 'love for Single Ended Triode amps and bass fullness'.

He offers DACs in PCM 56/58/63, TDA1541A (my current Abbas 2.2SE), TDA1543, AD1865/AD1862. Mr Abbas is a retired classical music conductor with an acute sense and now makes his Abbas range of DACs. 

I place more value in the experienced opinion of someone who has an ear on all the above chips! 

 

 

[rantan]

It seems to a dac novice like me, that sometimes when you spend $5K on one, it is probably best to not look inside the case.

There is too much of not much in that photo.

[muon*]

Looking inside a FEZZ amp is also disappointing.

[frankn]

Sometimes less is more, or put another way, all you need is all you need.  Space is a good insulator. 
 

[frankn]

Deleted, duplicate 
 

Edited November 30, 2024 by frankn
Duplicate

[Gryffles]

Given that this is the Lampizator Owners thread it might be best to stay on topic please folks.

 

 

[Silver Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, muon* said:

Looking inside a FEZZ amp is also disappointing.

Inside the Fezz Titania Evolution (RRP AU$6,499).

Oh my 

[Silver Audiophile]

19 minutes ago, Gryffles said:

Given that this is the Lampizator Owners thread it might be best to stay on topic please folks.

So, it's not like the MX-5 owners club? As long as you own a MX-5 (in your car collection), you're still allow to show up at MX-5 events with your BMW M2 or other toys 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2024 by Silver Audiophile

[frankn]

Question;

What is the difference in music presentation/performance of the GG-3 vs Atlantic-3 TRP as there appears to be a large cost gap.  Anyone in Adelaide who has one and would be willing to demonstrate?

The options for both are very similar.