HT Setup Options and suggestions welcome - Budget $3000

[chrishdt]

Hi there,

 

I'm looking to improve the listening experience and upgrading to a surround sound set up vs. the current 3.0 for the lounge area.

 

The Room is open plan style with lounge space 5.9m Wide x 4.7m Deep to kitchen bulkhead x 2.7m high ceilings. Our sitting position is ~3.6m from L&R speakers & ~3.4m from Centre channel and have only In-Ceiling option for the rear surround speakers due to set up of the house/room. 

 

I have a few different ideas and just tossing up if Dolby Atmos is the way to go or sticking with 5.1 setup! We're mainly watching TV, streaming services & enjoy listening to good quality music from time to time witch the ARCAM AVR 360 performs well, and  wishing to retain Display & Front L&R + Centre speakers.

 

Current equipment:
Display: Samsung Series 7 65" Q75R QLED 4K TV QA65Q75RAWXXY with plans to upgrade to 77" OLED (Sony or Samsung).
AV Receiver: ARCAM AVR 360 *Note: No eARC, HDMI 1.4 only which limits streaming audio to Dolby digital only* 
Front L&R + Centre: QUAD L2 Series 12 + Centre 

 

Option 1 - Upgrade to budget Dolby Atmos 5.1.2 - Suggestions? 
AV Receiver: Denon AVR-X2800H - $1530 (with $170 cash back)
Rear Surround L&R: JENSEN® EHT-3 IN-CEILING SPEAKERS (PAIR) - $400
Atmos Overhead L&R: Krix  Holographix In-Ceiling Speakers Pair - $395
12" Subwoofer: SVS SB1000 CLASSIC SEALED SUBWOOFER - $770
Total $3095

 

Option 2 - Upgrade to budget 5.1 - Suggestions?
AV Receiver: Denon AVR-X2800H - $1530 (with $170 cash back)
Rear Surround L&R: JENSEN® EHT-3 IN-CEILING SPEAKERS (PAIR) - $400
12" Subwoofer: SVS SB1000 CLASSIC SEALED SUBWOOFER - $770
Total $2700

 

Option 3 - Upgrade to higher end 5.1.2 - *OVER BUDGET* Suggestions?
AV Receiver: Denon AVR-X2800H - $1530 (with $170 cash back)
Rear Surround L&R: Krix IC-32 (Hemispherix A20) In-Ceiling Angled Speaker Pair - $850
Atmos Overhead L&R: Krix  Holographix In-Ceiling Speakers Pair - $395
12" Subwoofer: - SVS SB1000 CLASSIC SEALED SUBWOOFER - $770
Total $3545

 

Option 4 - Please suggest?
AV Receiver:
Rear Surround L&R:
Atmos Overhead L&R:
Subwoofer:

 

Cheers Chris

Edited February 26, 2024 by chrishdt
Formating

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Hi Chris, unfortunately if going Atmos you wont be able to use ceiling speakers for the rears, the rears need to be bed layer down with the front LCR. I have the same issue in my room atm so know the limitations well.

 

Checkout the Dolby website for layout options that may suit you room.

https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/5.1.2-overhead-speaker-setup-guide/

 

I'd expect the Denon you have chosen wouldn't sound as good as the Arcam 360, at that level of Denon, Arcam are on another level as far as power goes (I've owned an Arcam 360). FWIW I would much rather a more powerful and room filling 5.1 than adding Atmos.

 

Id also suggest looking into Receivers with Dirac Room Correction, they are the class leader and can make huge improvements into the overall sound of a room and sub integration.

 

If I was in your position id probably suggest putting the atmos speaker cash into the receiver for now, if you end up adding atmos somehow in the future that cost will be down the track when more funds permit.

 

In the low $2k range if buying new you could look at these:

https://www.videopro.com.au/product/onkyo-receiver-9-2ch-dolby-atmos-120w-8k-uhd/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA84CvBhCaARIsAMkAvkKJnK07Iv_AwAjnuNoPQ55ujMYFIs4erfmNlFA_Al6iZY-qca9QbaMaAufxEALw_wcB

Pioneer, Onkyo and Integra all use the same platform so you could buy any of them and get similar performance.

 

 

 

[chrishdt]

Thank you for the reply, very much appreciated!

 

Ok, Atoms isn't going to work so 5.1 setup is the way to go for the room .

 

I have been diving down the rabbit hole on this forum as there is lots of great info and advice.... I now have been bitten again by the Hi-Fi / HT bug haha!

 

So... I'm now considering lots of different options (considerably upping the budget ~$8k ish) including Floorstanding speakers (Krix Harmonix + Vortex center perhaps), Velodyne - DB-12 Sub and using AV processor with Dirac 'Live' room correction as this seems like the next big thing, coupled with 2 channel power amp for front L/R and using the Arcam 360 to power center and rear channels. 

 

However there's not a lot of affordable processor choice with Dirac and multi channel output! The Onkyo RZ50 is a good suggestion and  can do it all.  But now find my self wanting to avoid putting lots of cash into AVR's and then it's outdated in a few years as with the AVR360 and the previous Onkyo owned, when technology/codecs etc.. come along.

 

Decisions, decisions...

 

 

 

[AudioGeek]

Start with a sub and rears and use your existing avr. That may be enough to give you that cinema sound experience. 

 

Then if you feel the need get an avr with quality room correction and modern connection standards.

 

I recently picked a 98inch qled over more expensive but smaller oled. Sometimes screen size trumps ultimate image quality.

 

Cant go wrong with whatever you chose, the process can be fun!

Edited March 1, 2024 by AudioGeek

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Gee difference a few days can make!

 

if only you posted a few weeks ago, I just sold a pair of Harmonix and Nad receiver with Dirac very cheaply!

 

re processor, you are right processors are a very expensive way to achieve what an avr can do for far less. That said they do audio at a higher quality hence the price increase.

 

failed to mention Anthem, their room eq for some is as good as Dirac and definitely worth a look

 

I personally wouldn’t bother with a stereo power amp and the arcam for rears, bit messy and a decent ht power amp would do as good all round, especially if using the AV pre pro or receiver as your processor.

[AudioGeek]

Ah, did I get that wrong? Is the Arcam only stereo? Or pre only?

How is the centre running?

[Guest]

On 26/02/2024 at 12:46 PM, chrishdt said:

Ceiling option for the rear surround speakers due to set up of the house/room. 

Yours will have to be 5.1...

 

1 hour ago, chrishdt said:

But now find my self wanting to avoid putting lots of cash into AVR's and then it's outdated in a few years as with the AVR360 and the previous Onkyo owned, when technology/codecs etc.. come along.

The only major technology change in recent years is HDMI 2.1 for 8K video.  But if you ignore that, you can pick up used AVR bargains that can last you for many years.  

 

So suggest waiting for something to pop up in the Classifieds.  Aim for a mid to high end used AVR which tend to have better power.   Ideally, with Dirac Live (DL) or Anthem Room  Correction ARC) because it will make a difference in your shared room. 

 

However, if you want the assurance of warranty, then consider something with DL (note that you may have to pay extra in some instances) or Anthem MRX 540 with ARC. Your budget will likely be exceeded if buying new.

[RCADees]

On 01/03/2024 at 12:10 PM, chrishdt said:

Thank you for the reply, very much appreciated!

 

Ok, Atoms isn't going to work so 5.1 setup is the way to go for the room .

 

I have been diving down the rabbit hole on this forum as there is lots of great info and advice.... I now have been bitten again by the Hi-Fi / HT bug haha!

 

So... I'm now considering lots of different options (considerably upping the budget ~$8k ish) including Floorstanding speakers (Krix Harmonix + Vortex center perhaps), Velodyne - DB-12 Sub and using AV processor with Dirac 'Live' room correction as this seems like the next big thing, coupled with 2 channel power amp for front L/R and using the Arcam 360 to power center and rear channels. 

 

However there's not a lot of affordable processor choice with Dirac and multi channel output! The Onkyo RZ50 is a good suggestion and  can do it all.  But now find my self wanting to avoid putting lots of cash into AVR's and then it's outdated in a few years as with the AVR360 and the previous Onkyo owned, when technology/codecs etc.. come along.

 

Decisions, decisions...

 

 

 

 

Home Cinema and everything related to it only has the sky as a limit (and your budget) but you can keep going and going.

 

If wanting to keep it within limits (at least for the time being) yet achieve a very satisfying result, I strongly suggest that before you consider Atmos speakers and the AVR that you would need to do this, you get the bed layer as good as possible. If your bed layer is not good, the rest will not follow.

 

A number of studies have been done related to psychoacoustics, and humans are really accurate when it comes down to audio at a horizontal plane. But at the same time we are terrible when it comes down to working out the position of an object on the vertical plane. This is why when you are walking on the street and you hear a plane above, you may think it is somewhere in particular, when it is actually in a different position, front or behind etc.

So we rely heavily on visual clues to work out the position of an object in the vertical space.

This is the reason a well thought of, well calibrated 5.1 system will kill a not properly set up Atmos system.

 

Check out this video below at 34m:45s

Psychoacoustic Mechanisms of Elevation

 

I suggest you invest your time and money for now in getting the bed layer right. Once this is right you can expand.

 

On 01/03/2024 at 12:10 PM, chrishdt said:

But now find my self wanting to avoid putting lots of cash into AVR's and then it's outdated in a few years as with the AVR360 and the previous Onkyo owned, when technology/codecs etc.. come along.

 

I think that used to be the case, because all of these surround systems used to be "speaker" based. Meaning the experienced was completely dependent on the number of speakers you had and where exactly they where located in order to try to replicate the mix of the content.

However, this has now changed and we are now living in the "objects" based system era. In which sounds are put anywhere within a 3D space by the mixer and the AVR will use the speakers you have and try to place the sound there in space, not necessarily in the speaker. In my view the future changes in AVRs which are object based is only the power and processing required for the user to be able to place more speakers in their space. And if you can't place more speakers in your living area, then that is not going to change by getting a new AVR in the future.

 

As mentioned by others the Arcam is a great machine, so I suggest you first spend your money in a good sub and L-R surrounds.

Look for surround speakers which will not only match your front LCR but also lately match the ceiling Atmos speakers in timbre and size. Ideally same brand and model etc.

 

I have the same issue like you have in relation to the rear surrounds. I investigated in ceiling speakers with an angle from 20 degrees to even 45 degrees but in the end I abandoned this idea as you need clear separation between the bed layer (horizon 5.1 or 7.1) and the height Atmos layer.

 

If you focus on getting the bed layer as good as possible (including best position for L-R surrounds) and you add a good subwoofer, you will have a great system which will make you wonder if you are actually missing much more.

As funds allow you can then spend the money on a good AVR with Atmos capability and high current and continue to expand when you are ready.

 

In my case I focused on the 5.1 bed layer and at the time had an old 7.2 capable AVR Yamaha (non-Atmos) and it sounded very good as a 5.1.

Once I upgraded to a Marantz Cinema 40, the entire presentation changed and now I was having sound coming from almost everywhere. In fact the change was so dramatic that now I get phantom imaging in between the side surrounds and the front L-R speakers, it truly is amazing but because I spent time getting the L-R surrounds in the right place.

 

I have only used Audyssey but paid particular attention to the calibration(s) and the result is fantastic. Do I need Dirac? It is expensive and it may improve the result again even more, but for now I don't need it, but the AVR will allow me to do it in the future, just like perhaps more Atmos speakers.

Do you need Dirac now? Can you save the money and when you are ready get the AVR you want so that you can expand to Dirac and Atmos speakers?

 

I recently installed a pair of in ceiling Atmos speakers and spent lots of time calculating the right location.

The result is really good, it does feel like a bubble all over. But it is because a lot of it is the fact that the Atmos speakers are working in conjunction with the bed layer correctly and there are no gaps in between and have separation to the bed layer as well. So the whole experience is very seamless. However I am sure that if my L-R surrounds were not in the right position, this would have not been achievable. Sure calibration works, but much harder and not optimal if your bed layer speakers are too much out of whack.

 

So I reckon, get you Horizon right so that you can then fly to the Sky!