Cafad Posted March 3, 2024 Posted March 3, 2024 It took a while but I have finally been able to lay my hands on an Edge A. There has been a lot written about the Edge series, Cambridge Audio's 50th year Anniversary series. They are statement pieces which are stunning to look at and, as it turns out, pretty damn stunning to hear too. If you read through some of the reviews below you will likely come to a few conclusions that I'll address below: https://www.stereophile.com/content/cambridge-audio-edge-integrated-amplifier https://www.avforums.com/reviews/cambridge-audio-edge-a-integrated-amplifier-review.16997/ https://www.stereonet.com/au/reviews/review-cambridge-audio-edge-a-integrated-amplifier https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/cambridge-audio-edge-a https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/integrated-amplifiers/cambridge-audio-edge-a-integrated-amplifier-review/ https://twitteringmachines.com/review-cambridge-audio-edge-a-integrated-amplifier-a-complete-package/ https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/1345-cambridge-audio-edge-a-integrated-amplifier-dac That third link is the Stereonet review from Mark Gusew, which by way of fortuitous coincidence, is the exact same component that I now have gracing my lounge. There it is, after one of the most complicated unboxings I've ever had to experience (very creative, and showy, I'll give it that but unnecessarily multi staged. What's wrong with a traditional double box?) there it is in all it's clean-faced glory. As it is in the picture above it did not sound its best, those speaker cables did not work with it, however I did find a pair that did and I'll get to the details of those as I go along. When I put the Edge into my system I connected it up as an analogue amp with the Orchard Audio Pecan Pi+ DAC doing the decoding duties. I did this because I'd had the Pecan Pi+ in the system for a while and I wanted to hear the Edge as an amp, its DAC side could come later (I had also heard a whisper that the DAC was not as good as the rest of the amp, a whisper that I have not been able to find mention of anywhere on the net but I will sure as hell investigate as I go). And try it I did. This amp is an absolute treat to listen to. Feed it a slow and sultry song, it gives me slow and sultry, feed it hard and fast it gives me hard and fast, feed it electric guitar, drums and powerful vocals (the song "Turning Gold" by The Pretty Reckless is a good example) and it puts one hell of a smile on my face . I now believe pretty much every positive word written about it in every review above. There were some that claim it didn't give them great bass, I do not understand that, the bass I get from this amp is extraordinarily good (were they using the internal DAC maybe?) I think I'm going to have to pull out my old test tracks and make some notes because the Cambridge is so good I'm thinking it is likely to become my reference amp for all things integrated. And then there is the DAC. Using the Orchard Audio DAC the Edge A impressed me. It had impact, depth and fullness to the bass and it had a mid range full of clarity and definition with extremely good vocals. Changing over to the internal DAC (using the coax input) reduced impact, depth and fullness to the bass and reduced the mid range vocals from extremely good to fairly good. I am not a fan of the internal DAC. I have not trialed the other inputs yet but I will. When it comes to the aesthetics I don't have strong feelings really. The double dial looks fairly cool (I don't love the clean shaven look, but I feel that it does suit the amp so I'm OK with it) and it's functional, the lights telling you which input you have selected are a bit hard to read but then you can set up 4 buttons on the remote as presets for inputs and starting volumes so that fairly effectively removes the difficulties once you have set it up. I will have to set things up for a full review session with notetaking and that may take me a little while to get to but I feel it may be worth it because my curiosity is piqued. Is this amp actually as good as I think it is? I really want to know. Bear with me and I'll see if I can find out. (I'm working with some GaN power amps too ATM so things might take a while) 9
blakey72 Posted March 15, 2024 Posted March 15, 2024 @Cafad A Cambridge Audio amp really good??? I think you must be getting soft in your old age mate Nah, they have been getting better and better over the past 20 years so I'm not surprised. Last time I heard/owned a goodish Cambridge amp was around 2002 (an Azur 740A amp?? I think). They've come some way since then I believe. I look forward to your more in-depth thoughts
Cafad Posted March 16, 2024 Author Posted March 16, 2024 I'm leaning into the class D GaN stuff just now Blake but I'll get back to the Cambridge before too long. I have some comparo plans that I am working on for the Edge A. Not small plans, but as not-so-small-plans they may take some time to implement. I'll keep you posted.
Cafad Posted June 2, 2024 Author Posted June 2, 2024 Finally got around to this Cambridge-Heschl-Sansui-Audio Analogue Comparison. I know the Edge A is a good amp, I’ve been quite enjoying it as my main amp for several weeks now and I can’t really fault it, but that isn’t the same as knowing if it is actually a better amp than any other. So, just how good is it? And is it actually good enough to be a 50th anniversary statement amp? The only way to answer that question is to compare it directly with some other amps that are all stand outs in their respective fields. Or at least, that’s my view on the matter, so let’s get to it. To start I thought I’d get down to brass tacks with the Heschl HAL-350 and the Cambridge Audio Edge A. Using them both as whole units, feeding them a digital signal and letting them do their thing so we are testing out both the DAC and amp side of each. My test song here is Jennifer Warnes “Way Down Deep” from her album “The Hunter”. The Heschl HAL-350 does not disappoint. It gives deep bass, clean and expressive vocals and an ever-so-slightly-warm midrange. It might be just a touch soft in the top end via the coax input and a little more solid in the bass. Through the usb the top end opens up and the soundstage widens and the mid range gets less warm and more expressive. Now this is listening! However, in the spirit of “you just can’t have everything you want” female vocals are a little sweeter through the coax input than they are through the usb. The Edge A, via the coax input, has bass that is just as expressive but not quite as deep or solid as the Heschl. It has a little more happening in the treble, it gives a bit more love to the stick taps and the drum brushes. Female vocals are on a par with the usb input of the Heschl but not as good as the coax input. So coax to coax I’d give the win to the Heschl, but not by a great deal. If the Heschl scored 8.5 out of 10 on the bass and the vocals the Edge would be at about 8.2 to 8.3. In the treble the Edge pulls ahead but not by enough to counter the Heschl’s lead in both the vocals and bass. I’d love to evaluate the Edge via usb but I can’t get my music server to recognize that the Edge is there. It plays nice with the Heschl but I can’t get it to even notice the Cambridge. A pity, but it is what it is. I messaged Cambridge about this matter and the reply I received was that the Edge A DAC was designed to be connected directly to a computer via usb and as such it was unlikely to work with a music server. So, it’s coax all the way for the Edge A. Poor show Cambridge! If everyone else can do it why can’t you? Now a drum test, using Guns and Roses version of “You Could Be Mine” from the Remastered, Super Deluxe version of “Use Your Illusion”. The Edge A is fast and furious but also articulate and resolving. The Heschl is much bigger, fuller and just a little slower on coax, it narrows the gap on usb by gaining speed and more resolution but it feels just a bit too full to give you the necessary level of speed and impact. However the Heschl does fill the room much easier than the Cambridge. While the Edge gives you full on drums played by a world class drummer the Heschl gives you full on, bigger drums played by a super heavy weight boxer. There’s quite a difference in scale. As much as the Heschl is impressive here (and it is, it really is) I have to give the win to the Edge on my system. Now for a little electric guitar, curtesy of Joe Satriani. There are many tracks of his I could have chosen but in this case it is “Oriental Melody” from his “Strange Beautiful Music” album. The Heschl gives me goosebumps via the usb, such growl, such howl, and that feedback seems to resonate with my spine and send tingles along it. Just superb. Via coax it is crisper and tighter, but less full. I have this strange feeling that it actually sounds better via coax but feels better via usb. The Edge A steps up, it beats the Heschl’s coax performance but doesn’t quite make it to the level of the usb. It matches the howl, but only almost gets to the growl level needed to give me chills. One more win to the Heschl. Now for some comparisons with the DACs involved. I’ll spend a little time comparing the DACs in the Edge and the Heschl with the Orchard Audio PecanPi+ that is fast becoming my favorite DAC. The Edge A DAC sounds nice but it doesn’t have the detail or the treble depth or soundstage width of the PecanPi+. The PecanPi+ can be both more forward and deeper in as the passage calls for it, the Edge A DAC is smaller and “more introverted” in nature. And on vocals it just isn’t in the same league, Jennifer sounds very nice on the Edge but on the PecanPi+ she is a songstress worthy of worship. I’m afraid the DAC side of the Cambridge Edge A can be called “decent” and “reasonable” and maybe even “good” but it can’t be called “impressive”. Whereas “impressive” is a very reasonable word to use in the description of the PecanPi+. G&R’s drums are good on the Edge A’s DAC, but the PecanPi+ is a far more satisfying listen. I would use the word “awesome” to describe the PecanPi+ performance here, I would not use it to describe the Cambridge DAC. Joe’s guitar is more expressive, more nuanced and presented across a wider soundstage with more depth to it when using the PecanPi+. I’m not saying the Edge A DAC sounds bad or anything, but if it’s a 7.5 then the PecanPi+ is at least an 8.5. So, no contest, the PecanPi+ DAC is a far more satisfying DAC to listen to. And I will fool around with the Cambridge Edge A’s internal DAC no longer. It can now sleep forever (with the possible exception of its optical input, because I have to get the TV audio into the stereo somehow). Comparing the Heschl DAC with the PecanPi+ is a much closer call. With the Heschl fed via usb there is very little difference in the treble or mids but the bass is stronger and deeper when fed with the PecanPi+. I like this on slower songs but it can come across as too much bottom end at times. I would say the DAC comparo here is very close but at the end of the day I think I’d prefer to listen to the Heschl via its internal DAC fed via usb but I would rather listen to it fed from the PecanPi+ than use its coax input so these DACs are neck and neck. With both amps being fed with the PecanPi+ there is a distinct difference in their sound. The Heschl has more power and that comes through with more bass presence, deeper and stronger. Both amps are very good at treble presentation and separation with the Cambridge being just a little more crisp and the Heschl a little more warm. I don’t feel like I can say which is better than the other as such as I think opinions will vary on that and it will depend very much on whichever song is being used to test them. In the mid range the Edge is a little more open with a slightly wider sound stage while the Heschl feels a little rounded in around the edges. I think I like the Edge a touch more in the vocals but honestly it’s a very close race to call. It isn’t exactly a fair comparo (because when is it ever?) as I’ve had to convert the balanced output of the PecanPi+ to unbalanced via the use of balanced connectors and then balanced to unbalanced cables (from benchmark audio, as recommended by Orchard Audio, the third pin has to be floating and not connected to shield or it will damage the PecanPi+) so it is entirely possible that I’ve disadvantaged the Heschl (or given a slight advantage to the Edge A, if you prefer) but that’s what happens in these comparisons. You have to work with what you have. And now on to the slightly simpler amps. Audio Analogue Puccini. (Anniversary Edition) Wow! As the lowest powered amp here I had lowered my expectations a little for the Puccini, but as it turns out I need not have bothered. It has a slightly snappier sound than either the Edge A or the Heschl HAL 350 with a bit more treble energy on display, but not harder, just a bit more resolving and lively. Vocals are maybe a little less sweet than the first two amps but only a little. Joe’s Guitar is better than the Heschl via coax and the Edge A via coax but not quite as good as the Heschl via usb or the Edge A using the PecanPi+. And G&R’s drums are astoundingly good, so fast, so snappy, this is what fast and hard drums should sound like. It doesn’t have the bass depth of either the Edge A or the Heschl but the detail and the resolution within the upper and mid bass is definitely superior to either of the other amps. I’ve never heard the Puccini sound this good, but then this is the first time I’ve used it in the latest incarnation of my system with the WB Discoveries and the speaker cables made by BRMSlash. It really likes that combination, and so do I. Don't worry, the cables will get put away eventually, but not before I'm finished with them. Sansui 907Ltd. This model Sansui is widely acknowledged as the best integrated amp that Sansui ever produced, and I am about to tell you at least some of the reasons why that is. The treble energy is about equal to that of the Puccini but the ability of the amp to let the listener hear the layering of instruments within that treble is better again than the Puccini. It doesn’t come across as quite as lively as the Puccini but it is definitely letting more detail shine through. Female vocals are on a par with the Puccini and so not quite as sweet as on the Edge A or the Heschl but they can be heard more easily at lower volumes, which is interesting. Drums are not quite as astounding as they are on the Puccini but they have a little more depth and fullness to them. And Joe’s guitar is very much on a par with the Puccini as well. But what I can’t quite describe is the cohesion that the Sansui offers as a combination of all of these traits. And that detail it has, it comes with a level of clarity and delicacy that none of the other 3 amps can replicate. If you want to be able to listen into the instruments being played around the singer then the Puccini will let you do that (while the Edge and the Heschl will not, or at least not on my currently chosen speakers they won’t) but the Sansui will let you do it much more easily. And enjoyably. This had been an interesting exercise. However, I don’t really think I should be comparing some of these amps directly. The Cambridge and the Heschl both have large power reserves and a powerful bass delivery. The Puccini and the Sansui focus much more on detail, resolution and transparency, they still give you bass but they won’t let it overwhelm anything in the mid range or the treble. So comparing the Heschl and the Cambridge is fairly easy, and comparing the Puccini and the Sansui is easy, but comparing between the two groups is hard. Any potential listener is going to lean strongly towards one type of presentation or the other and is unlikely to be swayed from their innate preference. Sure was fun though. So, to answer the question that started me on this particular adventure. I believe the Edge A is a very good amp with a good-but-not-great DAC. It performs well and is decent value for money but, IMO, it would benefit greatly from a better digital section. I like it, I like it quite a bit, but I can’t help but feel it should be just that little bit better. 4 1
Cafad Posted June 28, 2024 Author Posted June 28, 2024 (edited) You know how it is right? There's always a next step in every journey, even when you think it's over. In fact, especially when you think it's over. Because in this hobby it's never over, because when the fat lady sings things are only just getting started. I've had something of a week, probably the most packed week work wise of the year so far, so when I got home this afternoon all I wanted to do was heat something from the freezer up in the microwave, eat it, shower and drag my tired ass into bed. But I didn't do that, because then I would have suffered tomorrow, no I decided to get all of my suffering out of the way today. So I cleaned, I vacuumed, I cooked and I ate (cooked tomorrow's breaky too) and then I cleaned the bathroom and dunny too. I did all of this because if I did it tomorrow then I would have had a crappier tomorrow, I've already had a crappy today so why not continue and forge through the crap and then enjoy Saturday as much as possible? Sounds like a plan, right? So tomorrow I sleep in, get up late and I can flip the bird at all the housework that will not need to be done. That was the plan. But the plan changed a little when, after wiping down the dunny with pine-o-clean, I returned a missed call to a certain friend of mine who lives in Woodford. Mark was wondering if I would be interested in getting together in the next few weeks and doing a bit of evaluative listening to a few different DACs, so of course I said yes. After hanging up of course my audiophilic lobe (you know, the one just behind the frontal lobe and directly between the ears) continued to think audio related thoughts and so, I decided to change out my amp. (Damn you Kirby, you enabler you.) Of course, when I make these decisions the question is always "What amp am I going to change to?" Sometimes this stumps me and I end up balking and just closing the door to the garage (AKA the Room Of Amplifier Storage) and continuing on with something else but no, I was determined to make a change now so that I could then enjoy it tomorrow. So I chose... Simon's back breaker of an integrated amp, the Zeus. (It's OK spine, you can rest easy tomorrow, because you've already slipped a disc today) I hauled out the Zeus, removed the two amps that had just been hanging around in my lounge for the heck of it, and removed the Cambridge Edge. And this is the point where those who aren't interested in the non-audio related waffle above can jump in, because who has time to read the reasons behind why something might have happened when you just cut right to the chase. So, in this particular case, I paused the music, swapped out the Edge and swapped in the Zeus (pausing only to make a chiropractic booking for tomorrow afternoon) and then un-paused the music mid song. And holy snapping duck doo-doo batman, the difference was about as subtle as a slap in the face with a frozen Spanish mackerel. The soundstage deepened and widened, the female vocals softened but also gained more breath (and more sweetness than an entire case of sherry). The middle of every note could now be heard in detail, it's as if I'd just gone from a gutless wonder of an amp to a torque monster of one. I had actually been enjoying listening to the Edge on my new speakers, but now, I looked down at the Edge at one point and I swear it just looked ashamed. And now I have to do some listening to different amps again, because it has been a very long time since I've had this many jaw drops in a single hour. Have a musical weekend everybody! (and you know I mean that when I say it, right?) Edited June 28, 2024 by Cafad 3 1
blakey72 Posted June 28, 2024 Posted June 28, 2024 @CafadOh well that's good and dandy. You've done it now! I'm swappin' out the Exposure and moving in the Plinius
Cafad Posted June 28, 2024 Author Posted June 28, 2024 1 hour ago, blakey72 said: @CafadOh well that's good and dandy. You've done it now! I'm swappin' out the Exposure and moving in the Plinius If you have to do it then there's no reason to fight it. 1
Grimmie Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 Loving this thread Cafad, loving the writing style too. The fact that I have active speakers (SGR MT3.2's) means I'll never (now there's a word and a half) need a integrated amp but it's still fun to read all about them knowing the extensive experience you have. One thing would help and improve the 'reviews' fab as they are, price is always a HUGE factor in comparisons. I know the sound is the sound and that's what matters most in any comparison but apples to apples, grapes to melons, it does make a more informed insite if we get a comparison of the values of each component. - IMHO of course. KUTGW.
Cafad Posted June 30, 2024 Author Posted June 30, 2024 7 hours ago, Grimmie said: Loving this thread Cafad, loving the writing style too. The fact that I have active speakers (SGR MT3.2's) means I'll never (now there's a word and a half) need a integrated amp but it's still fun to read all about them knowing the extensive experience you have. One thing would help and improve the 'reviews' fab as they are, price is always a HUGE factor in comparisons. I know the sound is the sound and that's what matters most in any comparison but apples to apples, grapes to melons, it does make a more informed insite if we get a comparison of the values of each component. - IMHO of course. KUTGW. Hi Grimmie. I was starting to wonder if anyone was reading my integrated writings anymore (there certainly doesn't seem to be anywhere near the level of interest that there used to be), thanks for the reply mate, and the suggestion. Price is an interesting characteristic isn't it. It's often the most important governing factor, but it's also the most variable. A piece of gear will sound the same no matter if you have bought it new or gotten hold of it second hand so the price you pay can vary greatly, particularly if you are buying a non-current or a run-out model. I don't always mention it because it can sometimes detract from the rest of the review, but since you ask. The Cambridge Audio Edge A retails at about $11.5K aussie. There are demo and other discounted models available for about $7K. It is a current model. The Audio Analogue Puccini Anniversary retails for almost $12K (Wow that seems high, I'm sure that's gone up since the last time I looked) and second hand units are available for between $3K and $5K. It is a current model. The Heschl HAL 350 came out at $25K but the price was later dropped down to $20K. I don't believe the HAL 350 is being made anymore, (although I am pretty sure it can still be purchased new) Heschl are selling a power amp version for half the price and developing a new hybrid integrated (or so my informants tell me). The Sansui 907 Limited cost 410000 yen back in 1994, (historical exchange rates seem to indicate an average of about 75 yen to the aud back in 1994 so that makes an aussie price of around $5.5K. Adjust that for inflation and last year that would be an RRP just shy of $12K. But that's just for reference. I paid a second hand price, I can't really remember how much exactly but I do remember it was cheap because one channel wasn't working. I took it to Andy, (back when he was operating) who found an oxidized contact was to blame, and got it fixed for the high price of $80. They can be found on Yahoo Japan and HiFido (on and off, they only made a few hundred of them) for between $2.5K and $6K aussie. And the Zeus, well that's a story all on its own. Simon built it using just over $3K in parts, I believe. It would be higher now as this was pre-COVID, and I don't believe the pre section he used is still available so it's pretty much a one of a kind. I know people say that the final price of brown goods is generally a multiple of the parts cost but I can't remember what multiple that is (it's been too long since I've read one of those themed threads) but it should be easy to apply. Specs on the other amps are easy to find but they simply don't exist on the Zeus so I'll mention those here too. It is a, 250 into 8 and 450 into 4, watt amp with 45K input impedance. It sports a 1KVA Torroidy transformer and 88000uF of capacitance per channel. Anything more than that and I'd have to contact Simon for details. On the new speakers so far I've only used the Edge A and the Zeus (and another amp which sounded a little odd, I'll have to investigate that further at some point). I'll get to others, I just need the time and since work has once again been impinging on my weekends that could be a while. But I'll get there. 2
Grimmie Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 Brilliant mate, defifitely puts thing sin perspective. Didn't realise Cambridge had gone that high in price, so that made it a much more even playing field. Thanks for the effort. Right! off to golf for the morning.
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