Musical Paradise MP-DX DAC

[xlr8or]

@MrBurns84 Can I suggest you please try the PCC88/7DJ8 tube in place of the E88CC/6922 tube and see how they go?

[MrBurns84]

15 hours ago, xlr8or said:

Unfortunately, one has to consult the services of a professional to study the circuit design and measure all the corresponding voltages to the tube sockets to determine where the correct operating points lie. Otherwise it easily becomes a big rabbit hole of spending more to second guess and establish which tube type works and sounds best.

Agreed.  Its definately one for the OCD audiophile.  

[MrBurns84]

12 hours ago, muon* said:

Interesting.

 

My valve amp was designed using the Sovtek 6H30 as drivers, and when I tried 6N6p's in it in place of the 6H30's the amp lost all It's life and dynamics and became a sloth. So not always a great sub for the 6H30 as that link suggests. My amp circuit was optimised for the 6H30, but not for the 6N6p, it can only be optimised for one or the other and not for both.

Now the 6H30-DR is a completely different animal again.

 

Edit: I actually tried two different versions of the 6n6p, the other being the 6n6p-i .

 

I've got both the EH and Sovtek 6H30s and the former does sound a tad warmer over the Sovteks on the MP Deluxe.  Would have loved to try a set of the 6H30-DRs but these go at crazy amounts of $$$

[muon*]

1 hour ago, MrBurns84 said:

I've got both the EH and Sovtek 6H30s and the former does sound a tad warmer over the Sovteks on the MP Deluxe.  Would have loved to try a set of the 6H30-DRs but these go at crazy amounts of $$$

 

Yup, they cost a packet when they turn up, have to watch out for fakes, Sovtek's relabeled as DR's.

 

How to identify fakes

http://www.aca.gr/index/hiend/hiendArticles?row=1988

[tata]

Hello,

 

New member here.

 

I have owned the MP-DX since last quarter of last year, and actually  my first foray into the current tube devices.

 

Using the DX's Rasp 4 Pi as a streamer and its DAC, together with the stock tubes from the factory was "clinically" too surgical for me.   I prefer to use my iFi Zen Stream as its source, the DX as the DAC only.  With the Zen Stream, the DX goes into another level of musicality....it becomes much sweeter and more palpable, so to speak.

 

I thought I was fine with it, (the stock tubes with the Zen Stream) until I changed into the Hitachi 6SN7-GTB and wow, I was surprised I was missing a lot!

 

Now I have tried to a pair of Toshiba 12BH7 and the sound got much better, more engaging, involving, has slam, hand-tapping pace, etc.

 

Btw, at present I use my Rogue Sphinx V3 tube preamp section, feeding the Vidar 1 power amp together with a pair of VPE LDW1 woofers and the LRS+.

 

Coming in, in a week or so, is a Musical Paradis MP-701 Mk3 preamp...then I will know how will this big boy pure Preamp compare to the Rogue's Sphinx V3 utilized as a Pre-amp only.

 

 

[ThoFi]

On 16/4/2024 at 7:17 PM, douxreveur131 said:

Good evening Thomas. 

 

This DAC is indeed equipped with a volume potentiometer.

 

I prefer to use it with the volume at 100% and use the FEZZ potentiometer.

So you set the pre amp at 100% and connect it via line-input to your integrated amp (Fezz)?

According to the data sheet the RCA output has 2.5V. So line level voltage…

Is 2.5V a common level for a pre amp output?

Edited May 20, 2024 by ThoFi

[douxreveur131]

3 hours ago, tata said:

Hello,

 

New member here.

 

I have owned the MP-DX since last quarter of last year, and actually  my first foray into the current tube devices.

 

Using the DX's Rasp 4 Pi as a streamer and its DAC, together with the stock tubes from the factory was "clinically" too surgical for me.   I prefer to use my iFi Zen Stream as its source, the DX as the DAC only.  With the Zen Stream, the DX goes into another level of musicality....it becomes much sweeter and more palpable, so to speak.

 

I thought I was fine with it, (the stock tubes with the Zen Stream) until I changed into the Hitachi 6SN7-GTB and wow, I was surprised I was missing a lot!

 

Now I have tried to a pair of Toshiba 12BH7 and the sound got much better, more engaging, involving, has slam, hand-tapping pace, etc.

 

Btw, at present I use my Rogue Sphinx V3 tube preamp section, feeding the Vidar 1 power amp together with a pair of VPE LDW1 woofers and the LRS+.

 

Coming in, in a week or so, is a Musical Paradis MP-701 Mk3 preamp...then I will know how will this big boy pure Preamp compare to the Rogue's Sphinx V3 utilized as a Pre-amp only.

 

 

 

Hello. 

 

Welcome to this post and congratulations on the purchase of this wonderful DAC. 

 

The choice of its Toshiba 12BH7 tubes is very interesting and many audiophiles also use them, under other brands, such as JJ 12BH7 (Gold), on the advice of Iam Mad on Youtube. The supreme choice, in my opinion, is the E-6SN7 Elite Linlai tubes. 

 

On the other hand, if you've chosen the basic model without any extras, I'd also suggest you think about changing the output capacitors. This is probably the most interesting way of achieving better musical quality. If, like me, you use an unbalanced RCA connection, only channels 1 and 3 are used. You can then completely remove the tubes and capacitors from channels 2 and 4, which are reserved for a balanced XLR connection. 

 

All you need is two capacitors. The choice is wide, and of course limited by the price, which can climb very quickly ! 

 

At reasonable prices, Iam Mad recommends Filmcap 2.2uF/800V 36x34mm Mundorf Supreme EVO AL OIL capacitors (in Europe, 60 euros for both). For my part, I'd suggest the VCAP ODAM 2.2UF (about 200 euros per pair), which have received a lot of positive feedback. They can be further improved by adding JDM 600 v 0.01 uF bypass Duelund cooper capacitors. This is even better, but not mandatory. Then, for the top of the range, the choice is vast and expensive! But it's undeniable. 

 

On the other hand, the raspberry is an economical solution for people who don't own a network drive. You were right to use your external network drive. 

 

Finally, congratulations on the forthcoming acquisition of a Musical Paradise pre-amplifier. Thomas made an excellent video on this device, but you're probably familiar with it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by douxreveur131

[douxreveur131]

2 hours ago, ThoFi said:

So you set the pre amp at 100% and connect it via line-input to your integrated amp (Fezz)?

According to the data sheet the RCA output has 2.5V. So line level voltage…

Is 2.5V a common level for a pre amp output?

 

Hello Thomas. 

 

Yes, this DAC provides a 2.5 volt unbalanced RCA output or a 5 volt balanced XLR output. 

 

I'm not in favor of using the DAC's digital potentiometer. I prefer to use the volume potentiometer on the integrated amplifier. 

 

[muon*]

3 hours ago, tata said:

Hello,

 

New member here.

 

I have owned the MP-DX since last quarter of last year, and actually  my first foray into the current tube devices.

 

Using the DX's Rasp 4 Pi as a streamer and its DAC, together with the stock tubes from the factory was "clinically" too surgical for me.   I prefer to use my iFi Zen Stream as its source, the DX as the DAC only.  With the Zen Stream, the DX goes into another level of musicality....it becomes much sweeter and more palpable, so to speak.

 

I thought I was fine with it, (the stock tubes with the Zen Stream) until I changed into the Hitachi 6SN7-GTB and wow, I was surprised I was missing a lot!

 

Now I have tried to a pair of Toshiba 12BH7 and the sound got much better, more engaging, involving, has slam, hand-tapping pace, etc.

 

Btw, at present I use my Rogue Sphinx V3 tube preamp section, feeding the Vidar 1 power amp together with a pair of VPE LDW1 woofers and the LRS+.

 

Coming in, in a week or so, is a Musical Paradis MP-701 Mk3 preamp...then I will know how will this big boy pure Preamp compare to the Rogue's Sphinx V3 utilized as a Pre-amp only.

 

 

Interesting choice the Toshiba 12BH7, I'm just reading a post on diyaudio by a member who said this.

 

"There are 2 types of 12bh7A , those manufactured by RCA license have an expending curves centered at -12Vg , and those manufactured by GE license have linear expansion always centered -12Vg. Only Toshiba from the Japanese is RCA type . RCA ,Westinghouse and Sylvania 12bh7a written Japan are manufactured by Toshiba .

The expending character of RCA type is the most sought for , as in MC 225 generates odd order harmonics but of opposite phase and expands the dynamic ."

[ThoFi]

15 minutes ago, douxreveur131 said:

 

Hello Thomas. 

 

Yes, this DAC provides a 2.5 volt unbalanced RCA output or a 5 volt balanced XLR output. 

 

I'm not in favor of using the DAC's digital potentiometer. I prefer to use the volume potentiometer on the integrated amplifier. 

 

Yes, it makes total sense to only use one volume control in the signal chain.

The output voltage levels are line level values.

Its confusing to me that pre amp can be connected to line level input because I think voltage peaks of an „true“ pre amp are much higher…

sry, off topic

I can’t imagine that I can hook my lector pre amp to a line level input of a integrated amp

Edited May 20, 2024 by ThoFi

[douxreveur131]

27 minutes ago, ThoFi said:

Yes, it makes total sense to only use one volume control in the signal chain.

The output voltage levels are line level values.

Its confusing to me that pre amp can be connected to line level input because I think voltage peaks of an „true“ pre amp are much higher…

sry, off topic

I can’t imagine that I can hook my lector pre amp to a line level input of a integrated amp

 

Unfortunately Thomas, I'm not at all technically qualified to answer your question. 

 

Sorry, Thomas ! (nice pre-amplifier !).

 

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by douxreveur131

[tata]

34 minutes ago, douxreveur131 said:

 

Hello. 

 

Welcome to this post and congratulations on the purchase of this wonderful DAC. 

 

The choice of its Toshiba 12BH7 tubes is very interesting and many audiophiles also use them, under other brands, such as JJ 12BH7 (Gold), on the advice of Iam Mad on Youtube. The supreme choice, in my opinion, is the E-6SN7 Elite Linlai tubes. 

 

On the other hand, if you've chosen the basic model without any extras, I'd also suggest you think about changing the output capacitors. This is probably the most interesting way of achieving better musical quality. If, like me, you use an unbalanced RCA connection, only channels 1 and 3 are used. You can then completely remove the tubes and capacitors from channels 2 and 4, which are reserved for a balanced XLR connection. 

 

All you need is two capacitors. The choice is wide, and of course limited by the price, which can climb very quickly ! 

 

At reasonable prices, Iam Mad recommends Filmcap 2.2uF/800V 36x34mm Mundorf Supreme EVO AL OIL capacitors (in Europe, 60 euros for both). For my part, I'd suggest the VCAP ODAM 2.2UF (about 200 euros per pair), which have received a lot of positive feedback. They can be further improved by adding JDM 600 v 0.01 uF bypass Duelund cooper capacitors. This is even better, but not mandatory. Then, for the top of the range, the choice is vast and expensive! But it's undeniable. 

 

On the other hand, the raspberry is an economical solution for people who don't own a network drive. You were right to use your external network drive. 

 

Finally, congratulations on the forthcoming acquisition of a Musical Paradise pre-amplifier. Thomas made an excellent video on this device, but you're probably familiar with it. 

 

 

 

 

When I ordered the DX, I have chosen the optional Vcap Odam and the MP-CLK external  battery-powered clock.  

 

Since it came already with those options,  I can't say what are their contributions to the over-all sound but I do say I enjoy my system now.

 

I just listened to my iFi Zen Stream feeding the DX as a DAC with a pair a NOS Mullard CV-2493, downstream to my Rogue Sphinx v3 used as a tube pre-amp (with RCA 12AU7) clear tops...down to a Schitt Vidar  and finally to my Magnepan LRS+ supplemented in the bass region by a pair of VPE LDW1 woofers.

My LRS+ are high-passed at 80hz, btw.

 

So far, the CV2493 in the DAC and RCA 12AU7 in the Rogue as a pre-amp has been my most liked combination with regards to airiness, depth, pace, bass musicality,  sweetness and natural tone of human voices, best compromise between warmth (which I like) and a bit of "sharpness" of electric guitars.

[douxreveur131]

2 minutes ago, tata said:

When I ordered the DX, I have chosen the optional Vcap Odam and the MP-CLK external  battery-powered clock.  

 

Since it came already with those options,  I can't say what are their contributions to the over-all sound but I do say I enjoy my system now.

 

I just listened to my iFi Zen Stream feeding the DX as a DAC with a pair a NOS Mullard CV-2493, downstream to my Rogue Sphinx v3 used as a tube pre-amp (with RCA 12AU7) clear tops...down to a Schitt Vidar  and finally to my Magnepan LRS+ supplemented in the bass region by a pair of VPE LDW1 woofers.

My LRS+ are high-passed at 80hz, btw.

 

So far, the CV2493 in the DAC and RCA 12AU7 in the Rogue as a pre-amp has been my most liked combination with regards to airiness, depth, pace, bass musicality,  sweetness and natural tone of human voices, best compromise between warmth (which I like) and a bit of "sharpness" of electric guitars.

 

Super !

 

[MrBurns84]

12 hours ago, tata said:

When I ordered the DX, I have chosen the optional Vcap Odam and the MP-CLK external  battery-powered clock.  

 

Since it came already with those options,  I can't say what are their contributions to the over-all sound but I do say I enjoy my system now.

 

I just listened to my iFi Zen Stream feeding the DX as a DAC with a pair a NOS Mullard CV-2493, downstream to my Rogue Sphinx v3 used as a tube pre-amp (with RCA 12AU7) clear tops...down to a Schitt Vidar  and finally to my Magnepan LRS+ supplemented in the bass region by a pair of VPE LDW1 woofers.

My LRS+ are high-passed at 80hz, btw.

 

So far, the CV2493 in the DAC and RCA 12AU7 in the Rogue as a pre-amp has been my most liked combination with regards to airiness, depth, pace, bass musicality,  sweetness and natural tone of human voices, best compromise between warmth (which I like) and a bit of "sharpness" of electric guitars.

For what its worth, @tata stick with the Odams.  They need a long time to break in, and when they do, you'll notice it.  Extreme patience is need to break in some caps, esp with the Vcaps and large Copper foils.  If you want to take it further, just add a 0.01uf bypass cap to them.

Also, The Zen Stream's usb out is not transparent and the usb reclocking tech is doing something funky to the output IMHO.  I've since reverted to using an RPI 4b + LPS and it sounded more transparent than the Zen Stream.  **Note that I only use the Pi as a roon endpoint.

With tubes, its all personal and subjective, just have the find the right combo that suits your listening taste.  

[tata]

47 minutes ago, MrBurns84 said:

For what its worth, @tata stick with the Odams.  They need a long time to break in, and when they do, you'll notice it.  Extreme patience is need to break in some caps, esp with the Vcaps and large Copper foils.  If you want to take it further, just add a 0.01uf bypass cap to them.

Also, The Zen Stream's usb out is not transparent and the usb reclocking tech is doing something funky to the output IMHO.  I've since reverted to using an RPI 4b + LPS and it sounded more transparent than the Zen Stream.  **Note that I only use the Pi as a roon endpoint.

With tubes, its all personal and subjective, just have the find the right combo that suits your listening taste.  

My previous system was the Zen Stream connected a Zen DAC v2.  Since then I have changed the Zen DAC with the DX and wow, what difference did it make, even in the DX's stock form.

 

I tried the internal Rasp 4  Streamer connected to its own USB A to B configuration, as recommended by Garry to further improve its sound quality, the same way you observed in your post above.

 

I agree with you that with the above mentioned set-up,  the Rasp 4 was more transparent...yet, to my ears,  while it has more clarity and some positive qualities most people look for, the Zen Stream and the DX as a DAC only, the sound was more "musical", sweeter and more involving,,, and more depth and wider soundstage.   I have tried these configurations back and forth, several times, to the same songs on Tidal.....yes, the transparency of the Rasp 4 is there, but time and again it failed to "ignite" my soul, so to speak.  It was worse with Qobuz, which is more transparent than Tidal....so "clinically"  transparent that somehow the overall involving, engaging ambience of the recording gets lost.

 

 

[tata]

On 21/05/2024 at 8:38 AM, MrBurns84 said:

For what its worth, @tata stick with the Odams.  They need a long time to break in, and when they do, you'll notice it.  Extreme patience is need to break in some caps, esp with the Vcaps and large Copper foils.  If you want to take it further, just add a 0.01uf bypass cap to them.

Also, The Zen Stream's usb out is not transparent and the usb reclocking tech is doing something funky to the output IMHO.  I've since reverted to using an RPI 4b + LPS and it sounded more transparent than the Zen Stream.  **Note that I only use the Pi as a roon endpoint.

With tubes, its all personal and subjective, just have the find the right combo that suits your listening taste.  

I wonder how long is a "long time" to break-in the Odams?

 

 My recently arrived MP-701 Mk3 preamp have Odams too and up to this very moment, I had them running non-stop approx 3 days already and I plan to end the burn-in after 240 hours or 10 days.

 

[muon*]

4 hours ago, tata said:

I wonder how long is a "long time" to break-in the Odams?

 

 My recently arrived MP-701 Mk3 preamp have Odams too and up to this very moment, I had them running non-stop approx 3 days already and I plan to end the burn-in after 240 hours or 10 days.

 

I'd ask V-Cap

https://www.v-cap.com/odam-capacitors.php

[douxreveur131]

4 hours ago, muon* said:

I'd ask V-Cap

https://www.v-cap.com/odam-capacitors.php

 

Hello.

 

Probably something like 250 hours. Miflex says 500 hours, but they're huge !

 

 

[an-eagalach]

Some advice please?  This is a decidedly nontechnical question, but it is clear that some members here have successfully communicated with MP. I am trying to purchase an MP-DX, and have sent several questions on the website regarding accepted methods of payment. I have had zero response.  From other audio forums I understand that one of Musical Paradise’s strengths is their quick response times to inquiries. Is everything OK with the company/website?

[tata]

Go to Aliexpress, look for the dealer Funkenya....I got my DX and 701 Mk3 from them.

 

Look for Ken...he also have direct access to Garry Huang.

[tata]

12 minutes ago, tata said:

Go to Aliexpress, look for the dealer Funkenya....I got my DX and 701 Mk3 from them.

 

Look for Ken...he also have direct access to Garry Huang.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005955330781.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.3bf958d9LwPV57

[douxreveur131]

 

Hello. 

 

I also used Aliexpress and this same seller Funkenya to pay for my MP-DX DAC in 4 instalments using Paypal.

The contact with this seller was really excellent in every way. As for the difficulty of communicating with Musical Paradise at the moment, it's due to the fact that the brand is swamped with orders, particularly for the pre-amplifier and high-end amplifier. 

 

https://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=55

The order book is exploding! And has even completely exceeded production capacity, at least temporarily. And all those who have ordered these two devices are constantly e-mailing to find out when they will be delivered, which is perfectly understandable. That's the price of success !

 

But having asked Garry myself by email about the purchase of an external precision clock, he always ends up replying, even a few days late.

 

Edited July 19, 2024 by douxreveur131

[MrBurns84]

Tagging @the-chauffeur 

[douxreveur131]

I received the Musical Paradise precision clock a few days ago. I've only been able to do a single listening session for the moment, as my fiber internet connection is down for a few days. However, I thought it would be interesting to give you some initial feedback. Of course, the battery was fully charged before listening.

I was a bit worried because I'd read a few users saying that this clock made no difference to them when listening. I guess it depends on a lot of things, the person's audio system and also, I guess, whether the precision clock used internally and externally was the same or not. For my part, the internal clock is a Crystek CCHD-950 Femto Second, while the external clock is fitted with an Accusilicon AS338 Femto Second, admittedly a little more powerful, but here we have two excellent precision clocks.

On first listening, I immediately noticed a completely black background sound. This DAC is very quiet with the internal clock, but this is really striking with the external clock.

In addition, the bass is much better defined, more precise, more embodied, more legible. The rubbing of a bow on a double bass or cello is more pronounced. The sound image is more precise and even broader. The overall analysis is more advanced, with a very natural quality, which is a very important aspect for me. Voices are even more natural, and timbres are purer and richer in harmonics.

As far as I'm concerned, on my little audiophile system, given the modest price of this external clock, the experience is very conclusive.

In my opinion, this is the last purchase to be made, after upgrading tubes, output capacitors and probably a good SR Purple fuse. If all this is done, then yes, the option of an external clock makes sense and makes this DAC, in the end and for its price, one of the best bargains around, with a musicality that brings it very close to a good LP turntable, which is no mean compliment.

 

Edited July 19, 2024 by douxreveur131

[the-chauffeur]

Hello folks

 

As @MrBurns84 knows, I've been beavering around in the MP-Pre thread, mumbling on about the MP-DAC that arrived recently.  Probably best that I post stuff about the DAC here . . . 

 

Despite it's recent arrival, I've already started modding it, with a new control knob to match those on my Pre (like the ones in this image).  The stem on the control pot is w-a-y too long and will almost certainly need cutting down if you want to change the knob.  This time, I was more careful than when I cut down the Pre volume stem, so I've retained all the functionality (unlike the Pre, where I think I managed to knock out the volume control motor).  I also needed to drill and tap a hole to move the position of the grub screw that fixes the knob to the pot.  Photo to follow.    

I've recently upgraded the output caps in the Pre and moved the outgoing caps I was using (Mundorf EVOs) into the DAC.  I've also swapped the valves for Electro-Harmonix 12BH7s.  Not cheap given that I'm using the XLR outs from the DAC to feed a DSP, so four of everything . . .  

 

More invasive plans include changes I've already made to the Pre - a filter IEC socket, rewired power switch and soft start board.  I've also got some black bodied, LED illuminated switches that I'm toying with to replace the silver power buttons.  They'll be more in keeping with the black control knobs I've fitted.

 

In addition, I got the offboard clock and I reckon the board will fit in the chassis when removed from its own housing.  If it does, I'll be looking for a 5v power feed and a relay to cut the 5v power when the main unit is switched on (so the device runs on battery only) and charges while the main unit is off.  I may also see if I can pick up one of the alternate clock chips and fit it to the empty socket in the main unit so I can A/B them both in the main unit and in the offboard clock.