Help me choose a CD Player

[Irek]

On 01/06/2024 at 11:19 AM, JkSpinner said:

 I have browsed Marantz, Denon, advanced Paris, Simaudio Moon, Arcam, Primare, Yamaha  and others.  

 

and now is the time to audition all of them with your favourite music. 

[Chigurh]

Have you spotted the fancy Yamaha in the classifieds? Big $$$ savings on a new one. 

 

[JkSpinner]

2 hours ago, Chigurh said:

Have you spotted the fancy Yamaha in the classifieds? Big $$$ savings on a new one. 

 

Nice CD Player.   I just bought the Marantz SACD 30N today

[JkSpinner]

So I finally bought a source unit.  Yesterday I purchased Marantz SACD 30N.  I did not meet all of my criteria, but I think it was the best all round decision.  My journey started with my Oppo 105 dying a terrible painful death two or three months ago.  I went searching for a replacement only to discover that CD’s were dead or dying, and that Hi Res streaming was the thing of today.  After much research on here and google, and some shopping at local retailers I kind of settled on the Lumin P1Mini.  Although I have always struggled with the price of any of the decent streamers, it appears that any brand name streamer with a decent DAC and linear power supply start at about $10k and go up from there.  I have struggled to understand how you can buy the same qualities in a CD player for $2 or $3k.  Anyway after settling on the Lumin, and while waiting on the Lumin to arrive in stores in Australia, I started my search for CDP again, as ultimately, I still wanted a CDP.

so with the Marantz trade in offer, I was able to secure the new Marantz for $4k, but in the process, have learnt that it will not only act as my CD Player, be able to play my FLAC files, but it is also a reasonable streamer, good enough for me to dip my toe into streaming for a while.   If I decide I require a better streamer in 12 months time, I can resume my search again.

i decided to stop chasing the best or my best even, I do not have the perfect amp, speakers or best shaped room, and my room can certainly do with some treatments.

so I think the 30n will fit my needs perfectly, and come within my $5k per device budget. (Not really a budget, I just feel $5k is a good figure. During this process, I have learnt a lot, and gained much knowledge and insight from this site which has not been put to waste.

i have invested in some isoacoustic  isolation feet, made a Turntable Plinth, moved my HiFi and TT around to shorten the distance from my TT to my amp, moved my TT out of the corner, invested in some Aurealis interconnect upgrades (some of these should have been done years ago) for the TT, will invest in some power lead upgrades this week, have changed from silver speaker cable to Kimber copper speaker cable including jumper cables (to try and tame the high end a little).

I have also moved my 2 channel to three different rooms trying to find the best balance between sound and location.  You see, I do not sit and listen often, I walk around and listen.  I have learnt that Best SQ and Best location do not match in my house, so I have settled with moving the 2 ch back to where it has been for years, in the lounge / HT room, but now I am finding that I sit and listen in the lounge more often, instead of sitting in the family room, while the music was playing in another room.

now that I have decided on a room, I will now tackle room treatments.  But as this is a lounge in a house, and not a music room, this will probably comprise of bookshelf’s (the wife will be happy), acoustic wood paneling (with rubber and foam backing) heavy curtains, including curtains on walls just to match other walls, and maybe curtains in areas that open to the entrance and front door, so that sound does not escape etc, you get the idea.  
I have started posts / asked questions on this forum under many topics, CDP vs CDP, streamer questions, to DAC or not to DAC, some questions on Turntables, and others on room treatments.
so onwards and upwards.

[doogie44]

You are following the music. Listening more to the music. Relaxing with the music. Lounging with the music. You are on the musical journet! 

[maximus]

@JkSpinnergood luck with the Marantz and P1 Mini in the near future, sounds like a quality product, but do remember at this price bracket a used Lumin P1 might well be another option.

Regarding bookshelf speakers in a lounge area, be very cautious which speaker you decide upon. I've had over 20 pairs over the years and IMHO only one brand, possibly two consistently stood out re ; bass reproduction, the others all failed. Sub woofers will be the only solution.

 

 

[Irek]

There is plenty of BS online nowadays. Those brands that you mentioned before  (Marantz, Denon, advanced Paris, Simaudio Moon, Arcam, Primare, Yamaha) have a reputation of sounding good. Your maratz is both a CD player and a streamer. Don't belief that some new toy/streamer is better than your Marantz because some reviewers are saying so.   

[Steff]

35 minutes ago, Irek said:

Don't belief that some new toy/streamer is better than your Marantz because some reviewers are saying so. 

+1 where the music sound is concerned.

 

In terms of playback utility, playlist creation, collection steering, playback visualisation, etc....

...is it fair to say that Marantz have not invested R&D to keep up with the competition (and no longer offer a standalone streamer in their range). I'd be happy to be schooled otherwise, I love the brand.

[rockeater]

5 hours ago, JkSpinner said:

to discover that CD’s were dead or dying,

Interestingly, the owner of Addicted to Audio in Perth told me that they are on the way back, with all major manufacturers having a new CD players in their offering now, after an absence of about a decade.
 

 

5 hours ago, JkSpinner said:

and that Hi Res streaming was the thing of today.

for people who do not really like the music and say: "google, play me the type of music I heard on the radio on my way to work today"

I don't think that people who have thousands of records in their collection have switched to streaming.

 

Also, streaming might be the thing for people who like pop music. When I searched for avant-garde jazz, there was precious little available. A friend who once had a fully paid up version of Pandora, did a search for me and thay had 7 tracks of Ken Vandermark. The guy released 136 albums back then, now probably well over 150.

it would be interesting to see if current streaming platforms have more.

Could anyone of the streaming guys look Ken Vandermark up, please?

5 hours ago, JkSpinner said:

Although I have always struggled with the price of any of the decent streamers, it appears that any brand name streamer with a decent DAC and linear power supply start at about $10k and go up from there.  I have struggled to understand how you can buy the same qualities in a CD player for $2 or $3k

It would take too much time to write in detail on the subject, but it is either profiteering (by major players) or a matter of small, boutique companies that do not have scale of manufacturing.

There is nothing in any streamer (as opposed to an amp or even CD player now where the mechanism would need to be developed and made), that should cost more than $1000 or maybe $1500. Like in Cambridge streamers. DACs are cheap and streamers use very little power, so there is no need for huge power supplies.

It is like phono stages that cost $1000 up. Other than transformer and the case, there is $10 worth of components in them. Every amplifier up until 90s had one on board and it took two square inches of board real estate at most. It added $5 to the cost of the amp. $10 if both MM and MC were available due to the cost of the switch. They only sell them for $1000+ now, because there are people who buy them.

[rantan]

52 minutes ago, rockeater said:

Interestingly, the owner of Addicted to Audio in Perth told me that they are on the way back, with all major manufacturers having a new CD players in their offering now, after an absence of about a decade.

 

And why would they not ?

 

Streaming is (all-you-can-eat ) and you never own anything. It is music for rent.

  The  the sheer convenience, ease of use and lack of ongoing  issues make CD a compelling case for a main source for your music

[Keith_W]

1 hour ago, rockeater said:

Could anyone of the streaming guys look Ken Vandermark up, please?

 

 

On Tidal: 

 

[Addicted to music]

46 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

And why would they not ?

 

Streaming is (all-you-can-eat ) and you never own anything. It is music for rent.

 

 

A music buffet….

[Assisi]

2 hours ago, rockeater said:

Could anyone of the streaming guys look Ken Vandermark up, please?

I found 25.  The first one released 1999

[Assisi]

2 hours ago, rockeater said:

There is nothing in any streamer (as opposed to an amp or even CD player now where the mechanism would need to be developed and made), that should cost more than $1000 or maybe $1500. Like in Cambridge streamers. DACs are cheap and streamers use very little power, so there is no need for huge power supplies.

It is like phono stages that cost $1000 up. Other than transformer and the case, there is $10 worth of components in them. Every amplifier up until 90s had one on board and it took two square inches of board real estate at most. It added $5 to the cost of the amp. $10 if both MM and MC were available due to the cost of the switch. They only sell them for $1000+ now, because there are people who buy them.

 

Everything is relative.  To me there is correlation between quality, cost and outcome.  It is not an absolute correlation.  Well chosen and compatibility with everything else in a system setup is extremely important.   No weak links.  There are so many variables impacting between affordability, outcome and the law of diminishing returns.  A $1K DAC or Streamer Vs a $50K DAC or Streamer can produce a similar but not exactly the same the musical outcome.  The outcome with either setup will  be different.  The important thing is to be satisfied with what is spent and the outcome.

 

You mention a case.  The DAC that I have has two different metal cases. One inside the other for isolation purposes.  Probably costs serious $ (Swiss Francs ) just to manufacture.  Is it necessary?  The two cases are just part of the entire design and engineering of  the best DAC I have ever had.  Is it the best DAC available?  Probably not. It suits the rest of my system.  It is all I can afford and the outcome is wonderful.  It took many weeks just to settle in.

John 

[POV]

I really struggle with why so many of these discussions seem to turn into a ‘vs’ type vibe where folks seem compelled to pick a side.  Do both (streaming services and CD) there is not one good reason not to.  Also run Vinyl, and a good Internet radio source as well.  All sources are and can sound good and be enjoyable.

 

I’ve said it before and will say it again, nothing compares to internet radio for discovering new music, but streaming services are a close second. Once you find new music you really enjoy then purchase it via CD, Vinyl, Digital Download or all of the above.

 

Edit: and if you really care about supporting artists you love turn up to live shows and buy merch, as this is where the majority of them actually make their living.

 

Edited June 16, 2024 by POV

[evil c]

4 hours ago, rockeater said:

Interestingly, the owner of Addicted to Audio in Perth told me that they are on the way back, with all major manufacturers having a new CD players in their offering now, after an absence of about a decade.
 

 

for people who do not really like the music and say: "google, play me the type of music I heard on the radio on my way to work today"

I don't think that people who have thousands of records in their collection have switched to streaming.

 

Also, streaming might be the thing for people who like pop music. When I searched for avant-garde jazz, there was precious little available. A friend who once had a fully paid up version of Pandora, did a search for me and thay had 7 tracks of Ken Vandermark. The guy released 136 albums back then, now probably well over 150.

it would be interesting to see if current streaming platforms have more.

Could anyone of the streaming guys look Ken Vandermark up, please?

It would take too much time to write in detail on the subject, but it is either profiteering (by major players) or a matter of small, boutique companies that do not have scale of manufacturing.

There is nothing in any streamer (as opposed to an amp or even CD player now where the mechanism would need to be developed and made), that should cost more than $1000 or maybe $1500. Like in Cambridge streamers. DACs are cheap and streamers use very little power, so there is no need for huge power supplies.

It is like phono stages that cost $1000 up. Other than transformer and the case, there is $10 worth of components in them. Every amplifier up until 90s had one on board and it took two square inches of board real estate at most. It added $5 to the cost of the amp. $10 if both MM and MC were available due to the cost of the switch. They only sell them for $1000+ now, because there are people who buy them.

 

l suspect bit of trolling looking for a reaction but your misguided opinion is staggering, and the worry is others will be sucked into believing any of it!

Cloth eared and budget conscious people deserve respect,  as long as they stay in their own lane - and don't try to sabotage others, seeking to achieve a good outcome system wise!,

Viva Streaming , CD and vinyl!,

Edited June 16, 2024 by evil c

[Irek]

41 minutes ago, POV said:

Do both (streaming services and CD) there is not one good reason not to.  

 

That is why Marantz SACD 30N SACD/CD player/network streamer does everything (almost). 

[POV]

8 minutes ago, Irek said:

That is why Marantz SACD 30N SACD/CD player/network streamer does everything (almost). 

Yep! seems like @JkSpinner has done it right.  Sought information, considered his use case, checked out the options and bought something that fits inside a budget he is comfortable with.  I hope it brings him much enjoyment  however he chooses to use it!

[muon*]

1 hour ago, POV said:

I really struggle with why so many of these discussions seem to turn into a ‘vs’ type vibe where folks seem compelled to pick a side.  Do both (streaming services and CD) there is not one good reason not to.  Also run Vinyl, and a good Internet radio source as well.  All sources are and can sound good and be enjoyable.

 

I’ve said it before and will say it again, nothing compares to internet radio for discovering new music, but streaming services are a close second. Once you find new music you really enjoy then purchase it via CD, Vinyl, Digital Download or all of the above.

 

Edit: and if you really care about supporting artists you love turn up to live shows and buy merch, as this is where the majority of them actually make their living.

 

I have a good reason, budget!

I had to fit my own brake rotors and pads as I didn't have the money to pay a shop do it.

[POV]

1 minute ago, muon* said:

I have a good reason, budget!

I had to fit my own brake rotors and pads as I didn't have the money to pay a shop do it.

 

Fair enough, and I'm certainly not trying to cast judgement on budget.  In my mind though streaming is likely cheaper than CD based systems but perhaps not if already have a big CD collection (which I know you do)

 

Sorry to hear you are doing it tough, hope things improve. 

[brodricj]

4 hours ago, rantan said:

...The  sheer convenience, ease of use and lack of ongoing  issues make CD a compelling case for a main source for your music

Huh? You mean streaming being the compelling case for a main source, not CD, right?

[muon*]

6 minutes ago, POV said:

 

Fair enough, and I'm certainly not trying to cast judgement on budget.  In my mind though streaming is likely cheaper than CD based systems but perhaps not if already have a big CD collection (which I know you do)

 

Sorry to hear you are doing it tough, hope things improve. 

What was tough was walking down stairs the next morning

 

Edit: was a nice feeling of satisfaction doing it myself, instead of paying a shop 2 or 3 times the retail price for the parts alone.

Edited June 16, 2024 by muon*

[brodricj]

1 hour ago, POV said:

...Edit: and if you really care about supporting artists you love turn up to live shows and buy merch, as this is where the majority of them actually make their living.

I paid over $2000 for three Coldplay tickets, and $90 for a tour merch t-shirt. They don't really need my support to make a living. But I'm doing it again in October and forking out even more money for the experience. Thus making them just a tiny little bit richer, and me a lot poorer.

[JkSpinner]

1 hour ago, POV said:

I really struggle with why so many of these discussions seem to turn into a ‘vs’ type vibe where folks seem compelled to pick a side.  Do both (streaming services and CD) there is not one good reason not to.  Also run Vinyl, and a good Internet radio source as well.  All sources are and can sound good and be enjoyable.

 

Well said prec

[rantan]

24 minutes ago, brodricj said:

Huh? You mean streaming being the compelling case for a main source, not CD, right?

 

Actually no, not at all, nada, nyet,nein

Do you require further comment or shall we leave this here?