Help me choose a CD Player

[Assisi]

4 hours ago, POV said:

I really struggle with why so many of these discussions seem to turn into a ‘vs’ type vibe where folks seem compelled to pick a side.

As you have said, the thread started with a request for help choosing a CD player.  The advice came from various posters and a choice was made.  Except that for the one post I made regarding tracks I had not posted even though I had read the thread out of interest.  I had nothing useful to say as I have no recent experience with CD players in the price range.

 

The matter of Vs. for me only arose when there were recent posts that were not correct.  To me to suggest that a DAC or streamers should cost no more than $1000/1500 was not useful.  From now on I will always use compare instead of Vs.

 

I do have experience with relatively expensive components.  Not as expensive as some systems that I know of.  As I said, well chosen expensive components and depending on the rest of the system there always will be listening benefit outcomes.  I understand about affordability.   It may be useful for forum members to find opportunities to listen to expensive set ups from time to time to provide a bench mark as to what is achievable.    Rather than just read what is written on the forum which also has a benefit.  Listening to other systems at least provides a level to aspire to if the possibility arises.  We all have our audio fantasies.

 

In my case I have invested my resources and effort into streaming.  I consider that I have achieved a remarkable outcome.  If I went down the CD path, I have no idea what the outcome would have been.  Too late now to find out

John

[JkSpinner]

18 hours ago, maximus said:

@JkSpinnergood luck with the Marantz and P1 Mini in the near future, sounds like a quality product, but do remember at this price bracket a used Lumin P1 might well be another option.

Regarding bookshelf speakers in a lounge area, be very cautious which speaker you decide upon. I've had over 20 pairs over the years and IMHO only one brand, possibly two consistently stood out re ; bass reproduction, the others all failed. Sub woofers will be the only solution.

 

 

I will be keeping my eyes on the used market, a used Lumin U2 became available last week, so I will give HEOS a go, it might just work for me, if not, keep an eye out.

I have moved my 2 ch back to the HT / Lounge so the large speakers work just fine.   I had the SQ issue when I moved the 2ch to the smaller room behind the lounge, my feel is the room was totally wrong, and required lots of treatment, and was to small.

[JkSpinner]

16 hours ago, Irek said:

There is plenty of BS online nowadays. Those brands that you mentioned before  (Marantz, Denon, advanced Paris, Simaudio Moon, Arcam, Primare, Yamaha) have a reputation of sounding good. Your maratz is both a CD player and a streamer. Don't belief that some new toy/streamer is better than your Marantz because some reviewers are saying so.   

I agree, that is one of the challenges of this whole process, not to get caught up in all the hype.  And I realised, that the best source unit or any product is only as good as the room size, shape, treatments etc and your other devices + interconnects, power etc, can go on and on.  I am very happy with my purchase, cannot wait for delivery, spent hours moving everything around in the TV cabinet yesterday in preparation.

[JkSpinner]

16 hours ago, Steff said:

+1 where the music sound is concerned.

 

In terms of playback utility, playlist creation, collection steering, playback visualisation, etc....

...is it fair to say that Marantz have not invested R&D to keep up with the competition (and no longer offer a standalone streamer in their range). I'd be happy to be schooled otherwise, I love the brand.

As streaming is not my main source, although it may be one day, I am hoping HEOS will suffice for now.  If not, I still wanted a CDP,  so I have time to search for a more suitable streamer

[JkSpinner]

16 hours ago, rockeater said:

They only sell them for $1000+ now, because there are people who buy them.

I think you mean $10,000 +

I am not suggesting profiteering, there may be a lot of development in all this bit rate DSD / PCM 128 / 256/ 512 + conversion, but we can buy a quality streaming amp for the same price, it’s just hard to justify the $10k + purchase, especially when the technology changes so rapidly.

[JkSpinner]

11 hours ago, POV said:

Yep! seems like @JkSpinner has done it right.  Sought information, considered his use case, checked out the options and bought something that fits inside a budget he is comfortable with.  I hope it brings him much enjoyment  however he chooses to use it!

Been busy moving things around in the entertainment unit getting ready for its arrival.  As I have moved the TT closer to the amp, everything does not fit to well.

[ThirdDrawerDown]

On 15/06/2024 at 6:03 AM, rockeater said:

I have no time to do it now, but if people want, I could take few screenshots of circuits, which could then enable anyone to easily identify if a system is balanced or not.

 

I've been here over a decade and am still learning. I'd be genuinely interested in this, in due course at some stage if possible please.

 

Declaration (Disclaimer)?: SA14S1 owner

[doogie44]

On 16/06/2024 at 5:46 PM, POV said:

I really struggle with why so many of these discussions seem to turn into a ‘vs’ type vibe where folks seem compelled to pick a side.  Do both (streaming services and CD) there is not one good reason not to.  Also run Vinyl, and a good Internet radio source as well.  All sources are and can sound good and be enjoyable.

 

Not everyone has your generous breadth or depth of consideration.

 

Picking a side (and voting or choosing) is how the binary mind works. Polarities then come naturally to the observed--but unexamined--world of either/or, good/bad, right/wrong. If it isn't one it must be the other. Identifying with your choice. That kneejerk thinking is the cause of most human misery and conflict and it starts small but ends up big...and don't think it's just others who indulge!

 

If I said "You're looking well", would you think, "Why? Was I looking sick yesterday?!".   If I told you I didn't vote for Labour, would you assume I voted for the other side (I avoid them all, but still)?

 

This is the kind of tribal thinking that can get you killed. 'If you're not for me, you're against me'. See the Russian Revolution and any US election, or politics generally, for further examples.

 

If you're in a relationship, what do you do about the partner's dark side (faults & failings)? Oh dear. Acceptance must mean accepting that stuff as well as all the rest. As well they might do for you and your dark side (what? My dark side??). A very big subject.

 

Of course I would like it on record that none of these failings apply to me personally...I do not judge, but merely observe the numerous faults of others.

 

In the world of hifi there's plenty of room for 'AND' thinking,as POV states, rather than 'either/or' thinking.

 

As part of one translation of the great Buddhist text the H'sin H'sin Ming  states:

 

The Great Way is not difficult, just don’t pick and choose.
If you cut off all likes or dislikes everything is clear like space.

Make the slightest distinction and heaven and earth are set apart.

If you wish to see the truth, don’t think for or against.

Likes and dislikes are the mind’s disease.

Without understanding the deep meaning
You cannot still your thoughts.

 

From The Hsin Hsin Ming, Verses on the Faith-Mind by Seng-t'san, the third Chinese patriarch of Zen

 

Things were simpler in the 6th century one assumes. No electricity, for one thing.

[Keith_W]

16 minutes ago, doogie44 said:

Things were simpler in the 6th century one assumes. No electricity, for one thing.

 

And no vinyl and CD either. But they did have Keith Richards. 

[David A]

On 11/06/2024 at 10:39 PM, ThirdDrawerDown said:

But what I can recommend, having heard, are the better models of the Audia Flight brand.

+ 1. Around that price point the Audia Flight FL CD Three S is the best bang for buck cd player imho, and is well built & quite musical sounding. There are also several local Dealers i'm aware of that sell that player.

Edited July 10, 2024 by David A

[crisis]

Mostly when you ask this kind of question people will recommend what thy have so why not?

My vote for the Primare CD35 which I have wired up to a Primare I32 and MA Silver 8 speakers. This combo is very revealing and what I might call “neutral”. The amount of micro detail I can hear with my old cloth ears is excellent. Cymbals are crisp with nice decay. Pianos are represented from the hit of the hammer on the string to the resonance of the frame/body. Bass guitars are clearly discernible and tuneful. It plays busy music very well without getting cluttered. It was a definite upgrade from my previous CD22. So much so that its eft me not really wanting to upgrade again. Its also nicely built and understated in appearance if that matters.

[Peter_F]

The Rotel Diamond Series DT-6000 CD Player is interesting to me, particularly at the runout price of $1749 down from $3499, https://www.audiotrends.com.au/rotel-diamond-series-dt-6000-cd-player.html?color=136

 

It seems quite well reviewed but unfortunately it's not possible to be auditioned in store. Being a vinyl tragic I'm loathe to spend that much on a CDP that might sound slightly better than a half decent DVDP. There also doesn't appear to be any comparisons or shootouts with other CDP's at that price point which I thought was quite unusual. 

[Irek]

I have Primare I25 with DAC + external Primare streamer/transport + Yamaha CD player as a transport. It sounds as you described. 

[Irek]

10 minutes ago, Peter_F said:

CDP that might sound slightly better than a half decent DVDP. 

People are saying that online and later you discover that they are using entry level AV receiver with budget speakers. 

[rockeater]

1 hour ago, Peter_F said:

unfortunately it's not possible to be auditioned in store.

What outfit is this? Just an online shop?

I would never buy anything that I couldn't hear first.

In the old days, I used to borrow stuff from stores and when buying speakers I had 5 pairs at home at the same time.

Times have changed...

[Neo]

2 minutes ago, rockeater said:

What outfit is this? Just an online shop?

I would never buy anything that I couldn't hear first.

In the old days, I used to borrow stuff from stores and when buying speakers I had 5 pairs at home at the same time.

Times have changed...

You are right, people audition in stores and buy online or secondhand. So opportunity to hear things that are in stock is far and few in between, as retailers only stock what sells in reasonable volumes. 
Neo

[Peter_F]

31 minutes ago, rockeater said:

What outfit is this? Just an online shop?

West Coast HiFi.

[POV]

My view is that auditioning equipment in stores or other rooms/venues than your own has limited value (unless we are talking about head-fi).  Home auditions are highly valuable, but much harder to arrange now than what they used to be, even in the higher end market.

[crisis]

12 hours ago, rockeater said:

What outfit is this? Just an online shop?

I would never buy anything that I couldn't hear first.

In the old days, I used to borrow stuff from stores and when buying speakers I had 5 pairs at home at the same time.

Times have changed...

Yeah well meanwhile in Adelaide that’s pretty much impossible. there are very few dealers and I’ve never come across one that would loan equipment to try.

The last dealer I bought a system from was a place called Atmosphere (now gone). Fortunately they had the speakers, the cd and amp I was interested in. Challenge is one of the few I think that are still around and have survived.

 

[rantan]

15 hours ago, Peter_F said:

The Rotel Diamond Series DT-6000 CD Player is interesting to me, particularly at the runout price of $1749 down from $3499, https://www.audiotrends.com.au/rotel-diamond-series-dt-6000-cd-player.html?color=136

 

It seems quite well reviewed but unfortunately it's not possible to be auditioned in store. Being a vinyl tragic I'm loathe to spend that much on a CDP that might sound slightly better than a half decent DVDP. There also doesn't appear to be any comparisons or shootouts with other CDP's at that price point which I thought was quite unusual. 

 

Hey Pete.

That Rotel player is really very good and would be light years ahead of any universal disc player.

It uses uses a lot or trickle down technology from the new Michi series and the only reason they have become discounted is that there was/ is no real market for something in between the Michi and the regular Rotel range.

At $1749 it is a stone cold steal and if I had cash and didn't have three CD players already, I would absolutely buy one...........and in your situation, even un auditioned.

I am quite risk averse when buying gear but I reckon that Diamond Series player is a definite winner..

Here is a link to a very accurate review of the DT-6000

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2024 by rantan

[rockeater]

3 hours ago, rantan said:

That Rotel player is really very good and would be light years ahead of any universal disc player.

Light years ahead of OPPO  UDP-205? These rather than being discounted are being sold second hand for $1000 more than when they were new.

Rotel is a very good brand that makes solid product. Inside, they are very well made and (in their higher players) use highest quality components. I have this RCD-991 AE which is full of Black Gates and other goodies and couple of decades back, it was my main CD player.

But their circuit design was not quite there with the best. It is not a Levinson or Wadia. When they made a balanced output, they'd merely create a cold leg with op-amp inversion, rather than having a proper, dedicated channel. 

 

[rantan]

@rockeater

 

Fair enough,but my post was made in the light of discovering that the player could be purchased for $1749 and I really cannot think of any  new player at that price point that would be equal or better.

I also understand that it is ,in no way, high end or reference standard and what I said should be taken in context of the street price and not the RRP ( which would definitely rule it out ) .

I have no skin in this game. I have three wonderful CD players ,all of which I would prefer to the Rotel.

However,at its discounted price the Rotel it is a clear and evident bargain.

 

I hope this helps to put my other post in context.

[crisis]

5 hours ago, rantan said:

 

Hey Pete.

That Rotel player is really very good and would be light years ahead of any universal disc player.

It uses uses a lot or trickle down technology from the new Michi series and the only reason they have become discounted is that there was/ is no real market for something in between the Michi and the regular Rotel range.

At $1749 it is a stone cold steal and if I had cash and didn't have three CD players already, I would absolutely buy one...........and in your situation, even un auditioned.

I am quite risk averse when buying gear but I reckon that Diamond Series player is a definite winner..

Here is a link to a very accurate review of the DT-6000

 

 

 

 

 

Certainly looks cool. And if its any good then that is a great price.

[HamishC]

22 hours ago, Peter_F said:

The Rotel Diamond Series DT-6000 CD Player is interesting to me, particularly at the runout price of $1749 down from $3499, https://www.audiotrends.com.au/rotel-diamond-series-dt-6000-cd-player.html?color=136

 

It seems quite well reviewed but unfortunately it's not possible to be auditioned in store. Being a vinyl tragic I'm loathe to spend that much on a CDP that might sound slightly better than a half decent DVDP. There also doesn't appear to be any comparisons or shootouts with other CDP's at that price point which I thought was quite unusual. 

I bought one recently with that sale price (from Audio Trends!) and did a bit of a comparison against my last CD player - I've been very happy with the Rotel. It's definitely a quality piece of gear and I'm really enjoying the details it brings to life in my CDs - its ability for soundstage and separation is a real winner for me. I'm also running a WiiM Pro through it to use its high-quality DAC for streaming music as well. 

 

[Peter_F]

9 hours ago, rantan said:

 

At $1749 it is a stone cold steal 

I am quite risk averse when buying gear but I reckon that Diamond Series player is a deinite winner..

 

Hi Lindsay,

 

It does seem like a good price at $1750, but also interesting/concerning having a significant 50% price drop. Was it well overpriced and couldn't compete with other CDP's at that price point and is the new price reflective of where its performance sits in the wide world of CDP's? In hifi, you don't get anything for free!   Plus $1750 buys a shed load of vinyl, but I am trying to 'embrace' digital and the 1800 CeeDees I own! 

 

Pete

 

10 hours ago, POV said:

My view is that auditioning equipment in stores or other rooms/venues than your own has limited value (unless we are talking about head-fi).  Home auditions are highly valuable, but much harder to arrange now than what they used to be, even in the higher end market.

 

I would find an in store demo extremely helpful:

• I can compare directly with my CDP and it would be easy to quantify if its better (or not).
• I can assess the build quality, the tray operation and rigidness, ascertain if loads fast, reads fast and has a decent remote and functionality.
• I can compare it to other CDP's in the store, I may prefer a different CDP.

 

5 hours ago, rockeater said:

These rather than being discounted are being sold second hand for $1000 more than when they were new.

 

Hi Roman, I see a lot of dumb things in hifi! 

 

37 minutes ago, HamishC said:

I bought one recently with that sale price (from Audio Trends!) and did a bit of a comparison against my last CD player - I've been very happy with the Rotel. It's definitely a quality piece of gear and I'm really enjoying the details it brings to life in my CDs - its ability for soundstage and separation is a real winner for me. I'm also running a WiiM Pro through it to use its high-quality DAC for streaming music as well. 

 

 

Thanks for that Hamish.

 

Funny thing is I've read a few online audio reviewers' reviews and they say the same thing in essence, but there isn't a lot of consumer's feedback online, particularly compared to say the Marantz CD6007 (for example) with tons of reviews by consumers, good and bad. These are the 'reviews' I find most helpful. 

 

Pete