Tesla Powerwall alternatives ?

[rand129678]

Hi what are the best budget Powerwall alternatives here in Australia?

 

Looking for minimum 10kWh and max 14kWh options

 

If you can indicate total price installed (of course will vary with different states but looking for ballpark numbers)

 

Other than the battery, what else does it need for installation? Extra costs or all inclusive?

 

Currently already have 6kW solar system and solar inverter obviously

 

 

Edited July 1, 2024 by rand129678

[brodricj]

Have a look here:

https://aokeepower.com/energy-storage-system/ozb-d01-48v300ah-2/

I've asked them if they have a distributor in Australia.

[Darryl]

I don't have a battery myself, but this youtube channel seems to have some useful information, and it's Australian.

 

[sloper]

l did the costings of adding  a battery to  our 6Kw solar and its just not worth it.

Our solar panels have paid us back many times over and had paid for themselves in 2.5 years.

Did buy  a 3.5kw generator for blackouts for the freezers.

 

With the high tariff ending at the end of the year we will just have to change how we use power.

Washers and dishwasher at off peak periods and weekends or when the sun is out.

 

regards Bruce

[rand129678]

11 hours ago, sloper said:

l did the costings of adding  a battery to  our 6Kw solar and its just not worth it.

 

Our 6kW solar generates 3x energy than we use, but still have a $1500 bill because they pay peanuts for the energy generated.

 

So a $10k battery installed (if such exists) would pay itself off in 10k/1.5k = under 7 years. Faster if electricity prices increase

 

Looking to see what the biggest battery for $10k would be (installed)

Edited July 2, 2024 by rand129678

[brodricj]

11 hours ago, sloper said:

With the high tariff ending at the end of the year...

I've had solar for probably 10 years. I only get 7.135 cents/kWh for my solar exported to the grid. So I run everything during the day to minimize the 7.135 cents/kWh electricity I sell to them that they on-sell to other users for 28.0109 cents/kWh.

[Kaynin]

11 minutes ago, rand129678 said:

 

Our 6kW solar generates 3x energy than we use, but still have a $1500 bill because they pay peanuts for the energy generated.

 

So a $10k battery installed (if such exists) would pay itself off in 10k/1.5k = under 7 years. Faster if electricity prices increase

 

Looking to see what the biggest battery for $10k would be (installed)

I’m in the same boat as you, installed my solar early last year.  Later in the year I asked the installer about a battery, but he said due to cost it’s only those who get black outs that fork out the money.  When he went through it, I agreed.  
 

I think they’re still far too expensive, but that won’t be forever.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Gov rebates start including just batteries for existing systems.  If you find a feasible option let us know, but I think we’re all still waiting.

[awayward]

An alternative perhaps.

[rand129678]

13 minutes ago, awayward said:

An alternative perhaps.

Thanks, for 10kWh battery, that seems to be the cheapest i've seen with installation.

 

For $7500, with our current bills at $1500 per year, it would pay itself off in 5 years.

 

That's pretty reasonable . But I need to check warranty

Edited July 2, 2024 by rand129678

[evil c]

1 hour ago, rand129678 said:

Thanks, for 10kWh battery, that seems to be the cheapest i've seen with installation.

 

For $7500, with our current bills at $1500 per year, it would pay itself off in 5 years.

 

That's pretty reasonable . But I need to check warranty

Batteries are not going to pay themselves off in 5 years, they aren't anywhere near totally replacing the electricity from your provider.

More like over 10 years or more, l crunched the numbers last year and lot of experts say you only save in the $100's .

Check it out for yourself first.

 

[rand129678]

4 minutes ago, evil c said:

Batteries are not going to pay themselves off in 5 years, they aren't anywhere near totally replacing the electricity from your provider.

More like over 10 years or more, l crunched the numbers last year and lot of experts say you only save in the $100's .

Check it out for yourself first.

 

 

As I said I currently generated 3x more power than I use.

 

10kWh will be more than I currently use - I know my useage is under 10kWh daily because I see it on my bill

 

Current bill is $1500 a year.

 

So if the battery stores all the power I need (and more...)

 

Then it is simply $7.5k/$1.5k = 5 years

 

Where is my maths off?

 

if electricity prices increase, it will pay itself off quicker

Edited July 2, 2024 by rand129678

[PKay]

13 minutes ago, rand129678 said:

 

As I said I currently generated 3x more power than I use.

 

10kWh will be more than I currently use - I know my useage is under 10kWh daily because I see it on my bill

 

Current bill is $1500 a year.

 

So if the battery stores all the power I need (and more...)

 

Then it is simply $7.5k/$1.5k = 5 years

 

Where is my maths off?

 

if electricity prices increase, it will pay itself off quicker

Your bill has a fixed line component which won’t go away. 
 

if your usage is so low you don’t need panels. Pretty soon we will be paying to export electricity. 
 

When I (and most people I know ) looked at the sums it just doesn’t make economic sense to get a battery. 

Edited July 2, 2024 by PKay

[rand129678]

Just now, PKay said:

Your bill has a fixed line component which won’t go away. 
 

if your usage is so low you don’t need panels. Pretty soon we will be paying to export electricity. 
 

When I (and most people I know ) looked at the sums it just doesn’t make economic sense to get a battery. 

 

Sorry but I don't understand your logic at all. THe fixed "supply" amount isn't much compared to the usage.

 

Unless there is something wrong with my maths above (please feel free to point it out, I'm open minded), it is straight forward to calculate.

 

Obviously your usage is different to mine  - I wouldn't tell someone it doesnt add up without seeing any numbers.

 

It might be more than 10 years pay off for your calcs, but not necessarily for everyone

 

Happy to be corrected though, if there is something specific

 

$7500 for 10kWh looks good

 

[PKay]

21 minutes ago, rand129678 said:

 

Sorry but I don't understand your logic at all. THe fixed "supply" amount isn't much compared to the usage.

 

Unless there is something wrong with my maths above (please feel free to point it out, I'm open minded), it is straight forward to calculate.

 

Obviously your usage is different to mine  - I wouldn't tell someone it doesnt add up without seeing any numbers.

 

It might be more than 10 years pay off for your calcs, but not necessarily for everyone

 

Happy to be corrected though, if there is something specific

 

$7500 for 10kWh looks good

 

Your $1.5k would include approx $300 for line fees.  It usually isn’t such a straight forward calculation but it might in your case so that’s great. 
 

As a simple example if you made a surplus 10kw a day which is easy with a 6 kw system and assuming $0.5 per kWh being peak you could save $5 a day. The reality is you consume a lot of electricity off peak and shoulder so the savings won’t necessarily be $5 a day. 
 

Also don’t forget that in the future we will be paying to export into an overloaded grid. 
 

On top of that the big unknown is how long your battery will retain peak  storage capacity. 

Edited July 2, 2024 by PKay

[PKay]

Another consideration is reliability. Since batteries contain so much energy they are almost impossible to put out when they catch on fire. I would want the best one I could afford. 

[rand129678]

5 minutes ago, PKay said:

As a simple example if you made a surplus 10kw a day which is easy with a 6 kw system and assuming $0.5 per kWh being peak you could save $5 a day. The reality is you consume a lot of electricity off peak and shoulder so the savings won’t necessarily be $5 a day. 

 

I just look at the total yearly bill , which is fairly consistent the last 3 years.

 

The entire bill will be saved, minus the fixed charge which is very small compared to useage.

 

Assuming the battery is sufficiently large enough to cover usage, I'm not sure why you need to look at peak and off-peak usage per day, when the entire yearly bill will be used (minus small fixed charge)

 

6 minutes ago, PKay said:

On top of that the big unknown is how long your battery will retain peak  storage capacity. 

 

These advanced LFP's should still be above 70% at > 8 years .

 

It would have paid itself off in my case, before then.

 

All theoretical of course.

 

5 minutes ago, PKay said:

Another consideration is reliability. Since batteries contain so much energy they are almost impossible to put out when they catch on fire. I would want the best one I could afford. 

 

Yes that's a fair one

Edited July 2, 2024 by rand129678

[PKay]

10 minutes ago, rand129678 said:

 

I just look at the total yearly bill , which is fairly consistent the last 3 years.

 

The entire bill will be saved, minus the fixed charge which is very small compared to useage.

 

Assuming the battery is sufficiently large enough to cover usage, I'm not sure why you need to look at peak and off-peak usage per day, when the entire yearly bill will be used (minus small fixed charge)

 

 

These advanced LFP's should still be above 70% at > 8 years .

 

It would have paid itself off in my case, before then.

 

All theoretical of course.

 

 

Yes that's a fair one

Great. Let us know how you go after a year.  $7500 is cheap for a battery. I was looking at Tesla when I did the callcs which was almost double the price. 

Edited July 2, 2024 by PKay

[rocky500]

23 minutes ago, rand129678 said:

 

The entire bill will be saved, minus the fixed charge which is very small compared to useage.

 

I find I get a lot of days where the sun does not shine so well. So I don't think the battery would charge that day, so no battery power on that night? Hows your Winter where you are?

I have a 8KW system (no battery).

My bills are around $250 each time. I do have a PC or 2 and cameras that run 24/7..... and some stereo components 24/7.

Edited July 2, 2024 by rocky500

[rand129678]

1 minute ago, rocky500 said:

I find I get a lot of days where the sun does not shine so well. So I don't think the battery would charge that day, so no battery power on that night?

I have a 8KW system (no battery).

My bills are around $250 each time. I do have a PC or 2 and cameras that run 24/7.

 

That's a good point. I was looking at the average daily generated but as you point out, it will vary daily, even if the average works out.

 

If you are planning to live in one house for 20 years I think it makes sense.

 

If you're unsure of whether you'll be in current house in 5-10 years, it might be a trickier decision.

 

[rocky500]

Just now, rand129678 said:

 

That's a good point. I was looking at the average daily generated but as you point out, it will vary daily, even if the average works out.

 

If you are planning to live in one house for 20 years I think it makes sense.

 

If you're unsure of whether you'll be in current house in 5-10 years, it might be a trickier decision.

 

 

How long does a battery last? I thought it was around 10 year.

[rand129678]

Just now, rocky500 said:

 

How long does a battery last? I thought it was around 10 year.

 

Should last longer than 10 years.

 

You're thinking to take the battery to next house, if moving? Yeh I guess why not

[rocky500]

I did look at batteries a couple of years ago and in some forums, I think they suggested roughly a 10 year batter life, then they may need replacing.

My memory could be a bit foggy on that one.

[rocky500]

Just googles it and

What is the life expectancy of a solar battery?

Solar battery systems for homes have a lifespan of 5 to 15 years.

[rand129678]

2 minutes ago, rocky500 said:

I did look at batteries a couple of years ago and in some forums, I think they suggested roughly a 10 year batter life, then they may need replacing.

My memory could be a bit foggy on that one.

 

Battery tech has really improved a lot and continues.

 

But they have 10 year warranty commonly

 

[rocky500]

I would make sure I bought from someone who I thought would be around in 10 years just in case I need to claim warranty.

 

Electric cars would be similar in battery life?