Cafad Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 Good Morning Everybody. I'm thinking about getting a bit more into the reviewing side of things again* and I was wondering, if I were to get an integrated amp for the purpose of using it as a baseline to compare other amplifiers to, what should it be? I've tried this before, bought an Onkyo 9070 for just this purpose, and found that I highly disliked the sound of it (far too deep and soft and dark, no excitement or energy to it) so that didn't work. This time I thought I might elicit some opinions before I go down the path of actual purchase. I'm thinking an amp between the $2K to $3K mark, expensive enough to be decent but still affordable to most (if they're serious about it). So I'm thinking of amps including, but not limited to, the Roksan Attessa, Audiolab 7000A or 8300A, Creek Evolution 50A or 100A, Hegel H95, Rotel RA 1572, etc, etc. So, my question to the wider SN community is, what other amps should I consider (or, if you prefer, what other amps would you consider if you were thinking the same thing) and why? What makes an amp a good baseline comparison amp? Let me know, and I'll come up with a list to consider. When I eventually make a decision I promise to explain my reasoning as fully as possible. * If you read that as "I'm tired of actual work and really want to spend more time sitting down in my future" then your interpretation of my intentions would not be inaccurate) 1
Bronal Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 (edited) You might consider the Exposure 2510 (75 Wpc). With a RRP of around $3500 it's a little above your budget, but I'm sure you could get it for less.. It consistently gets excellent reviews and would be an amp I'd seriously consider if I was in this market (I'm not; I prefer separates). Edited July 19, 2024 by Bronal 1
Cafad Posted July 19, 2024 Author Posted July 19, 2024 Hey Bronal. I have heard the 2010S2 (the predecessor to the 2510) and it was indeed excellent. If I were considering a new amp for personal listening I would certainly have the 2510 on my list. But I have other considerations in this case/thread. It isn't really so much about my budget, it's actually as much about identifying an amp that is well known and can be found in stores by an average joe/beginner audiophile as it is about performance. That way readers may be able to relate more easily to any comparisons I draw in reviews. So I guess "popularity" is more important that usual in this particular case.
David A Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 (edited) Based on what you described, I'd look around for a good pre-owned Yamaha AX-900 integrated. My brother owned a Yammy A-1020 integrated in the mid-80's which sounded great, had good bass and dynamics, and also good build quality and tactile feel. I was jealous of his amp tbh. The AX-900 was a later flagship integrated which was in production from 1989-1990, and was better again and had more power than the A-1020. People know how good that amp is, so they only occasionally come up for sale. I couldn't find one on Audiomart currently, but I found two wanted ads. You can look in the usual places if searching locally, otherwise Hifishark is a good site to look for o/s examples to have voltage converted to AU voltage. Here is a link to some info - https://audio-database.com/YAMAHA/amp/ax-900.html Otherwise if you've ruled out vintage amps, you might be able to find a pre-owned Audia Flight FL Three S integrated at the top end of your budget. That amp is surprisingly powerful, musical and well built (made in Italy) - https://www.audia.it/products/fl_three_s-3/integrated_amplifiers-1/fl_three_s-2.html Edited July 19, 2024 by David A 1
Cafad Posted July 19, 2024 Author Posted July 19, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, ray4410 said: Stello AI500 I've done the Stello AI500 Ray. I'm pretty sure there is a post or two about it on one of my "Addicts Guide" threads. I liked it but it was a little dry for my taste if memory serves me correctly. It also isn't a current model so no one can walk in to a retailer and listen to one. 2 hours ago, PKay said: Rega Elex R Hmmm, I had not thought of that model. I've heard the Brio R and the Elicit but not the Elex. And it does have some good write ups out there. OK, definitely a contender, I'll add it to my list. 1 hour ago, David A said: Based on what you described, I'd look around for a good pre-owned Yamaha AX-900 integrated. My brother owned a Yammy A-1020 integrated in the mid-80's which sounded great, had good bass and dynamics, and also good build quality and tactile feel. I was jealous of his amp tbh. The AX-900 was a later flagship integrated which was in production from 1989-1990, and was better again and had more power than the A-1020. People know how good that amp is, so they only occasionally come up for sale. I couldn't find one on Audiomart currently, but I found two wanted ads. You can look in the usual places if searching locally, otherwise Hifishark is a good site to look for o/s examples to have voltage converted to AU voltage. Here is a link to some info - https://audio-database.com/YAMAHA/amp/ax-900.html Otherwise if you've ruled out vintage amps, you might be able to find a pre-owned Audia Flight FL Three S integrated at the top end of your budget. That amp is surprisingly powerful, musical and well built (made in Italy) - https://www.audia.it/products/fl_three_s-3/integrated_amplifiers-1/fl_three_s-2.html I'm not really looking for a vintage amp for this purpose mate. And the Audia Flight is probably a bit exotic for most people. I'd prefer an amp that's a bit more mainstream (so basically the opposite of what I am usually looking for). 11 minutes ago, petng said: Naim nait 5si. Maybe, not really widely available here in Oz (at least in the past) but I they have become more mainstream down under in recent years. Edited July 19, 2024 by Cafad 1
rantan Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 Ok, I am putting my head on the block, waiting for the collective axe but I will say it anyway. A Rotel RA-1572 Mk ii, I must stress the Mk ii version though, because they have made may internal changes which make it far more melodious and far less steely than previous iterations. It is a brand that most people know, it is widely available and it is a sort of Swiss Army Knife with phono stage, DAC, Bluetooth Apt X etc It isn't a card carrying audio geek's amplifier, not dos it have any snob value at all, but it will power anything it is even remotely likely to be paired with it, sounding quite neutral in the process, and as such, is a great base line amp for not much cashola outlay. Now I await my execution 1
Darryl Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 Before I got to rantan's reply I was thinking along the same lines. For someone reading your reviews in future a Rotel would be an easy amp to audition as there are plenty of dealers. That way they can hear the baseline amp and get a feel for where you're going with reviews of other products.
Cafad Posted July 19, 2024 Author Posted July 19, 2024 OK, to tell the truth I was a little concerned that things might go in the direction of a Rotel. While I quite like the older 800 and 900 series the newer 1000 and 1500 models really sound a bit thin and squawky to me. However, if the mk2 version is a decent upgrade over the mk 1 then I'm at least a little less apprehensive about allowing it space on my list. Thanks for the suggestions and info rantan, your additional insight is appreciated. I do like the fact that the Rotel would be widely available. What would rival it for availability? Is the Rega brand so widely spread? I'm thinking Creek and Roksan from my original post are not that easy to find. What about Hegel and Audiolab, they are pretty widespread I believe.
Hydrology Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 As a self-confessed Hegel fan-boy, I would definitely recommend the Exposure 2510 as @Bronal said. It would be my pick of the litter from a performance point-of-view. But going back to Hegel, they are incredibly neutral and perhaps this is a good baseline, for a baseline, if you know what I mean? 1
rantan Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 20 minutes ago, Cafad said: What about Hegel and Audiolab, they are pretty widespread I believe. If you are not enamoured by an amplifier being dry, I would give the Audiolab a very wide berth. My learned friend @Hydrology loves the Hegel amps, but with due respect, I feel that they are so neutral and straight laced as to be devoid of emotion.
Hydrology Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 2 minutes ago, rantan said: If you are not enamoured by an amplifier being dry, I would give the Audiolab a very wide berth. My learned friend @Hydrology loves the Hegel amps, but with due respect, I feel that they are so neutral and straight laced as to be devoid of emotion. As the consideration is for @Cafad to consider jumping into reviewing, a neutral amp, speaker, etc would always be the perfect baseline to work with and I am trying to follow the brief of the question posed to us. I have substantial experience with Hegel both in terms of sales and ownership and as it was on the list, it was the most neutral of the brands he had suggested. I would consider any other neutral (dry) product for this specific task, but if this is about absolute enjoyment of music playback, I stand by my Exposure suggestion 100% What we use for work and what we use for recreation can be very different requirements. 2
rantan Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 (edited) @Hydrology Fair enough and a view well made. I really wasn't trying to be critical of you, but if it seemed that way, it was never intended at all. Edited July 19, 2024 by rantan 1
Jeddie Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 How about Musical Fidelity M3si Integrated Amplifier? 1
rantan Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 3 minutes ago, Jeddie said: How about Musical Fidelity M3si Integrated Amplifier? A good idea. The M5si would also work very well. 1
Hydrology Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 1 hour ago, rantan said: @Hydrology Fair enough and a view well made. I really wasn't trying to be critical of you, but if it seemed that way, it was never intended at all. Always good mate - we're tight! 1
Cafad Posted July 19, 2024 Author Posted July 19, 2024 1 hour ago, Hydrology said: What we use for work and what we use for recreation can be very different requirements. Exactly. 1
Cafad Posted July 19, 2024 Author Posted July 19, 2024 And an MF M2 or M3si would be a fair choice as well, I feel.
rantan Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 I should add that the Rotel amplifier is not something I would personally use for recreation, but it remains a great choice for work.
Bronal Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 Quot homines, tot sententiae. (There are as many opinions as there are people.) 2
David A Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 7 hours ago, Cafad said: I'm not really looking for a vintage amp for this purpose mate. And the Audia Flight is probably a bit exotic for most people. I'd prefer an amp that's a bit more mainstream (so basically the opposite of what I am usually looking for). No worries. Good luck finding the right amp
blakey72 Posted July 19, 2024 Posted July 19, 2024 I've been pushing the Exposure amps for years and no one has seemed interested. I personally think it's an amp people don't seem to be attracted to for some reason. Maybe it's plain looks or maybe it's 75w/ch vs cost. Anyway, I think the MF suggestion is a very good one. Also something from Cambridge Audio are a good solid all rounder at a decent price. Maybe the CXA81 MkII? 1
Cafad Posted July 22, 2024 Author Posted July 22, 2024 OK, so far we have. Rega Elex R Naim Nait 5si Rotel RA-1572 Mk2 Hegel, probably the H95 MF M3si Possible Cambridge? 3 votes for the Exposure 2510 (maybe I should be considering it?) No love for Audiolab at all, I thought they were fairly well thought of. Oh well, these things happen. The more I think about this the less clear the outcome seems to be. If I go down the popular but more neutral track then yes, the amp I choose will be widely available but I may not really like to listen to it and I'm thinking that is likely to come out in my writing and my attitude. A decision in this area sounds good logically but not good emotionally, I think I would live to regret it down the track. If I go down the most popular suggestions track then I'll be getting an Exposure 2510, I expect I'll quite enjoy listening to that but it's a bit more expensive and is not as widely available and so more out of reach and less likely to be an option for many potential readers/buyers. In the middle are the Rega, Naim and MF amps. Sooooooo... I guess that means I've narrowed it down to 3. Rega Elex R at about $2400. MF M3si at about $2700 (or maybe the M2 which seems to be almost exactly the same amp minus the usb input) Naim Nait 5si for about $3K. And I seem to have lost power to half of my flat. OK, best see what I can do about that, I'll get back to this later.
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