Baseline Integrated Amplifier Purchase Opinions

[LINN88]

29 minutes ago, PKay said:

I settled on a Sugden A21 SE. My previous Lavardin IT was a significant improvement as well. The Rega Aethos is also better. I found the Exposure amp wasn’t anywhere near as enjoyable in comparison. I also had a Sonneteer Alabaster while I was waiting for the Sugden and a friends Naim Supernait. I thought all of them were better but  that’s just my opinion. 
 

I think the exposure was the 3510 pre and monos from my recall.

 

my speakers are Graham LS 5/9 so not a difficult load. 

Sugdens are a great amp , nearly bought one many years ago the earlier series talked to the man himself

but horses for courses the Sudgen A21 SE is double the price of my Exposure 2510 new !........stakes are raised higher on this thread now,

waiting for the McIntosh's to turn up next

 

[Bronal]

My view is that the average person will not have heard of most of the brands recommended so far - perhaps Rotel excepted.

 

So, I suggest that the base amp be one from one of the mainstream brands - ie:  Marantz, Yamaha, Rotel, Denon etc.  Surely one of them has a model within the price range that is worthy of consideration?

 

The Yamaha A-S 1200, for example, has been getting excellent reviews.  I know it's listed for $3699, but surely it can be had for less.

Edited July 26, 2024 by Bronal

[LINN88]

2 hours ago, rantan said:

This won't be popular and I am ok with being the outlier but I just don't get the Exposure love affair. I would n't be so arrogant as to say it is bad, but whenever I have heard one ( in several set ups) I found it to be just MEH.

I won't comment further on it because I like this thread and its author and my impressions don't really help the thread.

 

Interesting times ahead @Cafad. I will be watching this closely.

Reallyactually I got the Exposure because quite a few on the "list" weren't really suited to my speakers I could change the summation from " meh " to bright ...oops.

[Cafad]

28 minutes ago, PKay said:

The integrated could also be a lot better. A lot of people underestimate how good an integrated amp can sound. 

 

 

[LINN88]

4 minutes ago, Bronal said:

My view is that the average person will not have heard of most of the brands recommended so far - perhaps Rotel excepted.

 

So, I suggest that the base amp be one from one of the mainstream brands - ie:  Marantz, Yamaha, Rotel, Denon etc.  Surely one of them has a model with the price range that is worthy of consideration?

 

There were no mainstream setups so to speak at the Hi-Fi show last year, which was a shame, but plenty for those with full wallets of gold cards,

I got lambasted on the HiFi show forum thread for mentioning entry mid-level systems, one guy posted ' you don't attend car shows to see Toyotas' 

[Bronal]

6 minutes ago, LINN88 said:

 

There were no mainstream setups so to speak at the Hi-Fi show last year, which was a shame, but plenty for those with full wallets of gold cards,

I got lambasted on the HiFi show forum thread for mentioning entry mid-level systems, one guy posted ' you don't attend car shows to see Toyotas' 

 

I am merely trying to reflect the aims that Cafad stated when he started this thread - 'It isn't really so much about my budget, it's actually as much about identifying an amp that is well known and can be found in stores by an average joe/beginner audiophile as it is about performance.  That way readers may be able to relate more easily to any comparisons I draw in reviews.  So I guess "popularity" is more important that usual in this particular case.'

 

It is typical of discussions like this to concentrate on what are essentially niche products barely known outside of audio circles.  I'm not saying that they aren't worthy of consideration as a final choice - I am one of those who recommended the 3510 - but I do think that Cafad needs to consider casting his net wider.  Just as you need to consider the Yaris and Corolla GRs when looking for a small hot sedan. 

[mattd2308]

Just perusing retailers with offerings under 3k, NAD seem to have a few, Leak 130 and 230 amps, Hegel H95, Denon PMA -1700NE. 

[rantan]

So the game is afoot and the quest remains.

Personally, I hope it stays around a while. No rushed decisions here.

[Cafad]

I made my decision back on page 2 guys.

 

I appreciate the assistance, the suggestions and the enthusiasm, I really do, (and I guess I may reconsider the Rega if a strong argument can be made for a different candidate) but I've already gone through the process and stated my reasoning as I went.

 

If you'd like me to try to explain my decision in even more detail I'll give it a shot but in my mind I'm pretty content with the final outcome.

[rantan]

6 minutes ago, Cafad said:

I made my decision back on page 2 guys.

My apologies mate. I obviously missed the decision post.

Now you can engage in the black arts of system matching.

[Cafad]

Postage from Victoria is not what it used to be.  I guess I just continue to wait then.

[Cafad]

And the wait ends. I now have a Rega Elex Mk4 (apparently the "R" is old news).  Actually I've had it for a fortnight now but the speakers only showed up last week.  

 

And here's some pictures.

 

 

The box was quite securely stapled.  

 

And an internal shot.

Is there some joker somewhere that just writes random stuff on circuit boards?

The top plate with its grounding tab.

 

 

And the sides are 3mm steel plate.  Nice!

 

I've got it and the speakers running in, about 50 hours on them both so far.  Hope to hit my 100 hour minimum limit by next weekend, after that I feel like I'm free to comment on the musical performance.

 

Have a good weekend everybody.

 

 

 

[Cafad]

I was thinking of starting another thread for the speakers but I don't know if there's a need since I've already made the call on them.  

 

I've selected the Fyne F500 SP standmounts.  For various reasons.

 

The first is that I really like Fyne speakers in general.

The second is that I really liked the Fyne F500 speakers when I had them a few years ago.

The third is that I saw a demo pair on sale at GC HiFi and they just looked so damn pretty.  Gloss Walnut is a very difficult finish to resist.

The fourth is that I know a guy who now owns my old pair of Fyne F500's and he wants to upgrade but doesn't want to spend any money to do it.  So I've been giving him some crap about that.  I sent him the link to these F500 SP speakers and he didn't do anything, so I bought them myself.

The fifth is that I've heard a pair of F700s at GC HiFi recently and they were very impressive but I think they would be a bit on the expensive side for this exercise and the F500 SPs seemed like a fair alternative, especially for .

 

When I told him he came around and bought his speakers (my old pair of F500's) to compare, and left them with me for a couple of weeks so I could do a lengthy comparison between the two.  

 

So I currently have 2 sets of F500's on hand.  How cool's that?

 

 

Edited August 26, 2024 by Cafad

[blakey72]

On 24/08/2024 at 9:14 AM, Cafad said:

Is there some joker somewhere that just writes random stuff on circuit boards?

Look it can be fixed easily. With the amp plugged in and switched on take your fingernail and gently scrape off the ''DANGER MAINS VOLTAGE ON PCB', rubbish writing  

[rantan]

@Cafad

 

Have you heard the Fyne speakers paired with the Rega.

 

Given that I am a master of understatement, I think you will find the combination very lively and energetic. No pipes, slippers, robes and hot chocolate required!

[blakey72]

@Cafad There's a typo you need to fix too. Geez still have to proof read your work..........

 

In GREEN - for................... new paragraph..

Edited August 26, 2024 by blakey72

[Cafad]

27 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

@Cafad There's a typo you need to fix too. Geez still have to proof read your work..........

 

In GREEN - for................... new paragraph..

This is why I shouldn't type up posts with music playing, I get distracted pretty easily.

 

I seem to have deleted a line or two don't I.  Hmmm, I wonder what those lines contained.

 

Hang on, I'm thinking I inserted that "The fifth" line after typing the line below, didn't really finish up that thought.  Oh well.

 

There we go, all fixed now.  I just crossed out the offending words and added a full stop. (For those of us who find that sort of thing important, just thinking of your mental well being there Rantan.)

[rantan]

4 minutes ago, Cafad said:

, just thinking of your mental well being there Rantan.)

 

Thanks for that but I wasn't the pedant in this instance. That honour goes to @blakey72

 

[Cafad]

45 minutes ago, rantan said:

@Cafad

 

Have you heard the Fyne speakers paired with the Rega.

 

Given that I am a master of understatement, I think you will find the combination very lively and energetic. No pipes, slippers, robes and hot chocolate required!

 

You make a valid point sir.  

 

I have made note of some additional treble on display.  I am hoping my system tuning skills are up to the task of taming it. 

 

We shall see.

[rantan]

1 minute ago, Cafad said:

We shall see.

 

In the interim, it might pay to get a full set of Nike or Puma or Everlast gym clothing. I think they call it active wear, but hey, at least it isn't Lycra

[JukKluk2]

26 minutes ago, rantan said:

at least it isn't Lycra

I once wore cycling Lycra for a photo shoot for a Qantas ad (for the Sydney Olympics) in the UK. My Lycra-contained jelly rolls graced full pages of the broadsheets a short time later. Not a sight to inflict on the young and/or innocent. I still have a copy of it somewhere.

[Cafad]

2 hours ago, rantan said:

 

In the interim, it might pay to get a full set of Nike or Puma or Everlast gym clothing. I think they call it active wear, but hey, at least it isn't Lycra

I think I have an old Adidas T-shirt somewhere.  That's about as  close to "active wear" as I get.

 

But yes, I do understand where you are coming from.

[THOMO]

My experience with compression driver tweeters is that they are extremely revealing compared to domes and will highlight treble differences between amplifiers.Some amplifiers that might sound good with more forgiving dome tweeters will not sound good with compression drivers. Especially ones with a lot of negative feedback. I guess for reviewing that might be good but it is something you need to be aware of.

[Cafad]

Yes Gentlemen you were correct.  These Fyne F500SP speakers do have quite a bit of treble and it can be both blessing and curse but I would argue that those two are not in equal measure.  I would estimate 67% blessing and 33% curse.  

 

While running in the speakers I discovered these fellows.  

 

 

So I dialed up the album and then went outside to mow the front lawn.  I returned in time for the last few songs and found that my good mate BRMSlash had turned the volume up into the 80s (that's db).  It sounded amazing!  So damn good I left the volume up for the next few songs (until the album ended and some random music started coming up).  

 

Now I have played some songs that sound quite hard, but that hardness is only really irritating when you crank the volume, keep the volume down below the mid 70's and it's more a feature than a bug (so to speak).  

 

The F500 speakers (the non-SP model) are pretty much the same as the SPs tonally (no surprise there) but they are easier to listen to at higher volume on songs that can come across as "a bit hard" on the SPs.  So if you are sensitive to treble then the standard speakers are a choice worth thinking about since the only real difference between the two is the resolution and detail above the upper mids.  

 

I started out using some Canare 4S8 cable using it in a bi-wire configuration (and this is what I was listening to Bozzio Levin Stevens with).  This worked, but it could get a bit hard and edgy when listening to songs that aren't "audiophile approved".

So with Malia, London Grammar, Jennifer Warnes, etc, the Rega and Fyne F500SPs sounded very good indeed but when I veer towards other works such as Def Leppard or Guns and Roses the treble could be "a bit much".  Particularly on 16/44 music straight from my hard drive,  easier to listen to 24/192 files via streaming but even that wasn't quite as consistent as I would have liked.

 

Changing speaker cables to a set of Aurealis UP series cables (with jumpers since my Aurealis cables are not bi-wired versions) the top end calmed quite nicely.  That treble is still noticeable but it isn't as dominant as it was while using the Canare 4S8.

I have another pair of cables to try but I'm still getting to know the Rega/Fyne/Aurealis sound ATM.  Once I'm happy I've got a handle on it, then I'll swap out the speaker cables again.  I'm confident I'll get there, but it isn't as easy as I was hoping it might be.

 

I should say though, I am quite impressed with the ability of the DAC in the little Rega.  I've run it as a DAC through a couple of other amps and on other speakers (mostly for fun, but also because I'm curious) and I have not been able to fault it.  Excellent work for something that seems like it was just added in order to improve market appeal via increased connectivity.

 

 

 

 

[Cafad]

The little Fynes have been patiently sitting in the corner of my listening room waiting for me to finish my procrastination and get back to them for quite a while now.  And yesterday, after a truly horrific week at work I felt like I was in need of some musical assistance to maintain my will to live so I hauled them out of the corner and set them up.  

 

They sounded just as I recalled, "a bit too much on the trebly side of things".  So I swapped out the aurealis speaker cables for a pair of HiDiamond 7 speaker cables.  They made a big change for the better.  However, I had taken the lazy approach and set up the Fynes with the gear that I had been recently using on my Wilson Benesch ACTs and that was not really the point of my old mission.  So out went the Mola Mola gear and in came the Rega Elex.  

 

Yes, now this was working for me.  The top end was sweetened quite nicely and the mids smoothed out a touch, this was a sound I could definitely live with.

 

There was only one problem.  The price of the HiDiamond 7 cables is only a smidge less than the Rega Elex itself, and to me that means that it seems very unlikely that many potential buyers of the Fyne/Rega combination would be willing to spend the same amount on speaker cables as they did on the Rega amp.  So while I had succeeded in arriving at a very nice sounding combination it was not the type of combination that I wanted to find.  I still listened to it for a while, and that was good because my will to continue on was given a healthy shot of enthusiasm.

 

So if I could get that level of adjustment with some expensive speaker cables does that mean I could get it with some less expensive speaker cables?  I'd already tried the Canare cables and they were not a good match.  The Aurealis UP series cables were a slight improvement but not enough of one really.  I did try some ribbon cable at one time but that was way too bright, what I needed was a cable that was pretty much the opposite of that, less top end, maybe more body to the mids, that kind of thing.

 

I don't have that big a collection of speaker cables and I'd tried all of them bar the ones that I couldn't use because they had some bizarre connections on them, except for one.  The pair of Aurealis Duelund cables that I usually forget about and have not really used since I moved on the Halcro gear.  I found them a good match with the Halcro power amp as the Halcro sound is cool and lean and these speaker cables gave it some soul in the vocals and a bit of body to the mids, and that's pretty close to what I was chasing with the Fyne/Rega combo.  So, I had to give them a try.

 

And I have to say, they are pretty damn good!

 

I could live with these (of course I'd have to get off my arse and move the ACTs out of the room so I could move the Fynes back and get the sound stage set up properly, and I could do that, but I'd have to make some room in the garage for the ACTs first, so moving them would be a multi step process)  I'd prefer to be using the HiDiamond 7s as they give me better vocals and a slightly sweeter top end but considering the price of $250 for a 2 meter pair these Duelund cables are a great match with the Fynes and the Rega.  I admit the price is probably more than most would like to pay for speaker cables but when you mix that $250 in with a $6K spend to get the Fynes and the Rega Elex it certainly shouldn't be a deal breaker.

 

So I could make the Rega and the Fynes work guys, I just had to put in quite a bit more effort than I first thought and take near-on forever to do it.  

 

Now, time to get that lazy Saturday afternoon I've been dreaming about for the last 5 days well and truly started!

 

Cheers Everybody.