Long interconnects advice

[Avalanche]

Hi all,

 

I need some advice in regards to buying 5m long interconnects for my system. I've recently moved into a new smaller house and my setup placement needs to change. 

 

My Weston Acoustics amps are to one side of the room, while my Gyrodec turntable and Zesto Andros PS1 phono amp now will have to sit in-between my Osborn Eclipse tower speakers. I need a 5m RCA interconnect between my phono amp and my preamp. 

 

I was using Inakustik NF-803 interconnects in that position previously and happy with them, but always happy for an upgrade if possible.

 

I noticed a post about Australian made cables and like the idea of buying locally made. The only locally made cables I've used are Osborn ones and I was impressed. Unfortunately Greg can't made them that long.

 

To sum it up, has anyone had experience with long interconnects that they could recommend. 

Budget around $1000.

 

Thanks,

 

Peter

 

 

[cafe67]

You could try Geoff at Aurealis Audio and discuss what you want with him. - https://www.aurealisaudio.com.au/rca-interconnects/

 

but having a Quick Look around , doesn’t seem you’d have problem sourcing 5m cables from most manufacturers ?

 

https://www.spacehifi.com.au/cables-and-connectors/rca-cables/audioquest-sydney-rca-to-rca-interconnect-cable

Edited September 20, 2024 by cafe67

[David A]

This would be my recommendation based on what you stated, and should be under $1kAUD for a pair of 5 meter rca's - https://viablue.de/en/cables/analog-interconnect-cables/rca-cables/nf-s1-t8-cinch-pair/.

 

Viablue Cables are made in Germany and are sensational value imho. I first heard them at the Australian Hifi Show in Sydney earlier this year paired with Pylon Audio speakers & a Fezz Audio integrated, and was impressed. The local Distributor is Maxmedia. And there is atleast one Melbourne Dealer I know of who carries those cables - Klapp Audio in Windsor. Hope that helps.
 

Edited September 20, 2024 by David A

[sir sanders zingmore]

5m is quite long for single ended ICs, can you not have the amp in the centre too - close to your TT and phono stage?

[muon*]

AS above by Trev', I'd try and shorten that distance as much as possible.

 

Edit: then have a chat with Geoff at Aurealis Audio.

Edited September 20, 2024 by muon*

[Avalanche]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely look into them.

 

Unfortunately the setup has to stay as is, for better or worse I simply don't have the space to have them closer the way the room is used.

 

I appreciate it's not ideal, but trying to make the best out of it.

[SonicArt]

I used to have my setup the same and ran 5m cables with no issue,  phono one side and pre the other.  my Silver Line mk2 compete with cables well above their price,  made here by an SNA sponsor,  cable designed by me and manufactured to my specs in the USA Milspec factories.

[Addicted to music]

21 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

5m is quite long for single ended ICs, can you not have the amp in the centre too - close to your TT and phono stage?

This,

 

keep low level voltage transmission to a minimal.  

[betty boop]

i've used upto 8 and 10m RCAs without issue.. there are some good brands about...

 

if looking or a decent quality long RCA that wont break the bank, can recommend the SVS sound path that can get in singles or pair.

 

https://www.lenc.com.au/products/svs-soundpath-rca-audio-interconnect-cable?

 

one caveat to above is if running RCA between turntable and phono stage.. this needs to be very short.... as its a very low level signal.. post the phono stage can run a long length rca... to pre or integrated... 

[POV]

5m is a long run for unbalanced low level signal.  I would recommend looking for alternatives.

There’s a reason that most reputable cable manufacturers don’t make unbalanced RCA above 3m.

 

[Vinylear]

I've used a 6m RCA between pre and power amp for years and recently found a long run of XLR cable and used that instead. I couldn't hear a difference. I was expecting something but no.

I made the RCA cable up myself using a Neotec cable and some WBT plug knock offs leaving the screen unconnected at the receiving end.

Maybe you could make your own.

[audiofeline]

I made a 5m cable for between the pre and TV, I used NeutriK RCA's and Belden cable that had lower capacitance to try to compensate for the length.  It's worked fine, but I acknowledge that the source (TV) isn't audiophile quality.  It does the job I want it to very well. 

Your budget will allow for better quality, which is advisable between the pre- and power amps.  For that length I would want to ensure I was using shielded cable. 

[betty boop]

4 hours ago, Vinylear said:

I've used a 6m RCA between pre and power amp for years and recently found a long run of XLR cable and used that instead. I couldn't hear a difference. I was expecting something but no.

I made the RCA cable up myself using a Neotec cable and some WBT plug knock offs leaving the screen unconnected at the receiving end.

Maybe you could make your own.

yep i ran a 8m one between a pre and power and sub woofer and ac processor and my 2ch gear for over decade.. my pre power though by design i discovered was able to drive upto 10m lengths ..so no wonder all good  

 

unless your pre is a passive one.. i'd suggest be no issue... .

[andyr]

On 20/09/2024 at 8:53 PM, sir sanders zingmore said:

5m is quite long for single ended ICs, can you not have the amp in the centre too - close to your TT and phono stage?

 

5m RCA cables are fine, Trev - provided they're not between a TT and a phono stage.  

 

In my previous house - power amps were at one end of an 8m room ... with preamp and sources at the other.  When I had short RCAs - and 11m spkr cables - my Naim power amps would shut down when playing Pink Floyd, loud!  (Thermal shutdown.   )

 

After I changed to 11m interconnects and 1m spkr cables ... I had no more problems.

On 20/09/2024 at 6:00 PM, Avalanche said:

I need some advice in regards to buying 5m long interconnects for my system. I've recently moved into a new smaller house and my setup placement needs to change.

 

Will send a PM.

 

[muon*]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

5m RCA cables are fine, Trev - provided they're not between a TT and a phono stage.  

 

In my previous house - power amps were at one end of an 8m room ... with preamp and sources at the other.  When I had short RCAs - and 11m spkr cables - my Naim power amps would shut down when playing Pink Floyd, loud!  (Thermal shutdown.   )

 

After I changed to 11m interconnects and 1m spkr cables ... I had no more problems.

 

Will send a PM.

 

An older NAIM amp like the ones that did not like high capacitance cables?

 

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by muon*

[andyr]

Just now, muon* said:

An older NAIM amp like the ones that did not like high capacitance cables?

 

Don't know whether it was the high capacitance ... or high inductance, Ian - from the 11m spkr cables, that was upsetting the 250.  But I was using Naim spkr cable!  

 

Then - as I said - when I changed to long interconnects ... and 1m spkr cable, the thermal shutdown never happened again.  (Then I moved from Naim amps to Hugh Dean's amps!   )

 

[POV]

18 minutes ago, muon* said:

An older NAIM amp like the ones that did not like high capacitance cables?

 

It was an inductance issue, specific to  older Naim amps output stages (which is why they recomended their own speaker cables and had specific lengthe requirements as inductance varies with length of cable run). That is a specific example associated to Naim amp designs; in practice for most situations if you must choose between long speaker cable run or long single ended interconnect run it's a more sensible choice to go with the longer speaker cable run (provided you are using suitably designed very low resistance speaker cable). 

 

In reality neither are ideal and folks should beware that examples from people in their specific circumstances and systems working does not make it a sensible plan.  If there is no option but to have a very long cable run, then this is where it actually does make sense to utilise fully balanced equipment with balanced cables.

Edited September 23, 2024 by POV

[andyr]

My, point, POV - was to give a real-life counter to Trev's statement, where very long (11m) interconnects ... worked fine.

 

18 minutes ago, POV said:

It was an inductance issue, specific to older Naim amps output stages (which is why they recomended their own speaker cables and had specific lengthe requiremetns as inductance varies with length of cable run). That is a specific example associated to Naim amp designs;

 

Naim actually specified minimum spkr cable lengths for their old amplifiers.  This was so that there was a sufficient inductance load - provided by the cables (as Julian had decided to save a few pennies of mfring cost, by leaving off the output inductor which all other ss amp mfrs generally include.

 

18 minutes ago, POV said:

in practice for most situations if you must choose between long speaker cable run or long single ended interconnect run it's a more sensible choice to go with the longer speaker cable run (provided you are using suitably designed very low resistance speaker cable). 

 

That is your opinion.  My opinion is that - long, single-ended interconnects can work just fine.

 

18 minutes ago, POV said:

In reality neither are ideal and folks should beware that examples from people in their specific circumstances and systems working does not make it a sensible plan. 

 

The OP specified his particular situation - which requires 5m interconnects.  My post was to reassure him that this will sound perfectly fine.

 

18 minutes ago, POV said:

If there is no option but to have a very long cable run, then this is where it actually does make sense to utilise fully balanced equipment with balanced cables.

 

What a woolly statement!    What do you mean by "very long"?  In a pro situation - like a rock band, on stage ... then for 30-50m interconnects I would agree with you; balanced would be better.

 

But for 5m - and even 11m (as in my previous residence) ... RCA interconnects are perfectly fine.  (Of course, I made them myself (using one of the late, great Allen Wright's recipes) - so they were a low capacitance design.)

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by andyr

[David A]

1 hour ago, POV said:

 

It was an inductance issue, specific to  older Naim amps output stages (which is why they recomended their own speaker cables and had specific lengthe requirements as inductance varies with length of cable run). That is a specific example associated to Naim amp designs; in practice for most situations if you must choose between long speaker cable run or long single ended interconnect run it's a more sensible choice to go with the longer speaker cable run (provided you are using suitably designed very low resistance speaker cable). 

 

In reality neither are ideal and folks should beware that examples from people in their specific circumstances and systems working does not make it a sensible plan.  If there is no option but to have a very long cable run, then this is where it actually does make sense to utilise fully balanced equipment with balanced cables.

You raised a valid point about inductance in long cable runs (being electrical resistance caused by magnetic fields around the conductor). And i'd add capacitance (being the temporary storage of electric charge in the cable). In my next system, my longest cables will be my speaker cables @ 2 meters, which admittedly isn't that long. Still they are specifically designed to prevent capacitance and inductance issues, so i'm good.
 

Edited September 23, 2024 by David A

[POV]

21 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

 

 

That is your opinion.  My opinion is that - long, single-ended interconnects can work just fine.

 

 

 

Fair enough and I'm simply trying to help the OP out, not looking for some kind of argument with you Andy.  My opinion is based on a bunch of academic work and 30 years of working in specialised signal transmision and system design.

 

21 minutes ago, andyr said:

The OP specified his particular situation - which requires 5m interconnects.  My post was to reassure him that this will sound perfectly fine.

 

My simple point is that you cannot possibly know if it will sound fine in the OPs specific circumstance and system set-up.  It may (probably will) be fine, but there could be problems depending on a variety of factors.  Low level signals can be sensitive and different components do different things with both input and output stages.  That's why I am saying that it's good to beware of peoples specific examples from their systems where things were allegedly fine and assuming that will be applicable to all circumstances and systems.  If it's possible to avoid it's best to do so.  If it's not possible to avoid then fair enough and I hope it works out for the OP.

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by POV

[andyr]

1 minute ago, POV said:

 

My simple point is that you cannot possibly know if it will sound fine in the OPs specific circumstance and system set-up.  It may (probably will) be fine, but there could be problems depending on a variety of factors.  Low level signals can be sensitive and different components do different things with both input and output stages.  That's why I am saying that it's good to beware of peoples specific examples from their systems where things were allegedly fine and assuming that will be applicable to all circumstances and systems.  If it's possible to avoid it's best to do so.  If it's not possible to avoid then fair enough and I hope it works out for the OP.

 

 

Fair enough.  

 

[muon*]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

Naim actually specified minimum spkr cable lengths for their old amplifiers.  This was so that there was a sufficient inductance load - provided by the cables (as Julian had decided to save a few pennies of mfring cost, by leaving off the output inductor which all other ss amp mfrs generally include.

This is correct.

 

High capacitance cables are usually low inductance and that was not liked by the old NAIM amps for that reason.

Edited September 23, 2024 by muon*

[andyr]

1 hour ago, muon* said:

This is correct.

 

High capacitance cables are usually low inductance and that was not liked by the old NAIM amps for that reason.

 

And yet low inductance spkr cables are better than high inductance spkr cables - as inductance acts as a brake on current ... and currents certainly flow in spkr cables!

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by andyr

[andyr]

2 hours ago, David A said:

In my next system, my longest cables will be my speaker cables @ 2 meters, which admittedly isn't that long. Still they are specifically designed to prevent capacitance and inductance issues, so i'm good.
 

 

How do you design spkr cables specifically "to prevent capacitance and inductance issues"?

 

As Ian noted:

 

1 hour ago, muon* said:

High capacitance cables are usually low inductance 

 

There is a direct relationship between spkr cable inductance and spkr cable capacitance; high inductance means low capacitance - and vice versa.  (Think Naim spkr cable (low capacitance / high inductance) vs. the classic '48-pair' braided spkr cables of the 80s & 90s (extremely high capacitance / extremely low inductance)!  )

 

[betty boop]

I use vdh magnum are they high inductance / low capacitance or other way …

 

I’ve typically seen this kind of table for speaker cable …the magnum are 8 gauge !  

 

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/blog/speaker-cables

 

longer speaker cables might be cheaper than having all

your interconnects longer

Edited September 23, 2024 by betty boop