Camac Posted September 29, 2024 Posted September 29, 2024 Hello again. Can I use a HDMI cable or does it have to be specifically I2S ? What is the difference between HDMI and I2S. I will be connecting PS Audio Air Lens to a PS Audio Gold DAC. Thanks again for your knowledge, much appreciated. Cam.
rockeater Posted September 29, 2024 Posted September 29, 2024 Although I do not know the PS product, they should be the same. I mean protocol should be the same and the difference being only in cables / connectors. Normally I2S has 3 cables sending 3 signals. HDMI has many more pins and can run these 3 signals on one cable. 1
awayward Posted September 29, 2024 Posted September 29, 2024 I2S doesn’t have a standard specification, many manufacturers use bespoke pin configurations to implement I2S, , I think the PS Audio specification is the most widely used, but you will need to confirm that the hdmi cable is compatible. 1
muon* Posted September 29, 2024 Posted September 29, 2024 Any HDMI cable will work, as long as the sending and receiving devices are pin compatible. Given both devices are PS Audio, I'd be surprised if they are not pin compatible, so yes, any HDMI cable will work, get as short a cable as you can. 3
Camac Posted September 29, 2024 Author Posted September 29, 2024 Just read that I2S has three wires and hdmi has 19. i.e. 9 pairs and one extra. Sent signal does not have to be condensed and then separated at the receiving end when using I2S specific cable. Sounds to me like when using HDMI cables for I2S trans/rec, you are only using 3 of the 9 wires available. Maybe the 3 wires in I2S cable are heavier duty than ones in HDMI and there offer a better signal transfer?
rockeater Posted September 29, 2024 Posted September 29, 2024 5 hours ago, Camac said: Maybe the 3 wires in I2S cable are heavier duty than ones in HDMI and there offer a better signal transfer? They do not. I2S is a SPDIF 1.5Mhz signal split into 3. Any decent HDMI cable sold today (say 1.4 spec) can carry 4k video which has a huge bandwidth. You don't need heavy duty cables, for the signals will be low voltage and low current. In general, if you ask question and you are given an answer which you don't believe, why ask? 1
Camac Posted September 29, 2024 Author Posted September 29, 2024 Wowa buddy, easy on the attitude! Just trying to get a bit of info and work out in my uneducated mind how these things work. You did say that the I2S signal is sent through 3 cables and HDMI has many more. To me that equates to 3 bigger dia cables as apposed to 19 smaller dia cables which in my mind means the signal is being transported in smaller dia cables and I'm picking up that with HiFi gear, the smaller the dia cable, the less quality. I also watched a vid online whereby it was stated that the signal needed to be compressed and then separated at the other end when using HDMI as apposed to I2S which does not have that issue. So do me a favour will you, if your going to be a dick about it then please refrain from answering any future questions I may post. I'm just trying to collate info from many sources to get an informed educated answer. How am I supposed to believe an answer until I received one so not asking in the first place makes no sense. Have a nice day and thanks for your contribution, much appreciated.
muon* Posted September 29, 2024 Posted September 29, 2024 (edited) I think the ETI HDMI cable I use is the older 1.1 1.4a spec, plenty for audio. This I used after using more current spec ones, the difference of the higher quality ETI cable made a positive difference SQ wise compared to the cheaper higher spec cables I tried previous to it. SO try and get the best quality, and shortest HDMI cable you can. i2s was never meant to go long distances, so that's why I suggest as short as possible. Edit: corrected, my ETI cable is the older 1.4a spec. Edited September 30, 2024 by muon*
muon* Posted September 29, 2024 Posted September 29, 2024 Just be a bit picky with what you take from some online and you-tube stuff, it is a minefield of a mix of truth and misinformation out there. It is difficult when new to all this. With audio signals the diameter of conductors are relevant to the level of the signal, this is why we don't use thick speaker cables for interconnects. We all start out where you are now, and learn as we go, some of it through others and some from our own experience. as we go. 2
brodricj Posted September 30, 2024 Posted September 30, 2024 9 hours ago, Camac said: ..Maybe the 3 wires in I2S cable are heavier duty than ones in HDMI and there offer a better signal transfer? You are over thinking this. Any passive HDMI cable will work. 1
brodricj Posted September 30, 2024 Posted September 30, 2024 9 hours ago, muon* said: Given both devices are PS Audio, I'd be surprised if they are not pin compatible, so yes, any HDMI cable will work... Just to elaborate on this, the pin assignments on AL are changeable so if you connect it to a non-PS DAC which uses non-PS pin assignments it's not an issue. Just flip some dip switches on the AL to match the DAC pins and all is well. As a few here have said, any passive HDMI cable will work. But I don't agree with the "short as possible" sentiment. Noe to OP. If you want all-in PS Audio they used to sell I2S cables, you might find used ones for sale in the usual places. I own a few of these, but I didn't think the build quality was very good.
muon* Posted September 30, 2024 Posted September 30, 2024 (edited) I compared a 1.5m ETI cable with the same ETI cable in 0.9m, I'm using the 0.9m one after listening to both. Edit: i2s was designed for communication from chip to chip, not component to component. Edited September 30, 2024 by muon*
brodricj Posted September 30, 2024 Posted September 30, 2024 Certainly in video applications short (and long) HDMI cables cause issues. In video 2m is the shortest recommended length. Given HDMI cables are used in both applications I stick with 2m+ length so the cable can be used for both.
muon* Posted September 30, 2024 Posted September 30, 2024 1 minute ago, brodricj said: Certainly in video applications short (and long) HDMI cables cause issues. In video 2m is the shortest recommended length. Given HDMI cables are used in both applications I stick with 2m+ length so the cable can be used for both. It's not used here for HDMI it's used for connecting i2s.
brodricj Posted September 30, 2024 Posted September 30, 2024 My point remains. I only use 2m+ HDMI cables for both video and audio applications because shorter cables can cause issues with video. A 2m HDMI cable I can use for i2S. A shorter cable might not work for video. So if all my cables are 2m+ I have the flexibility to interchange without issue.
Robbiefest Posted January 24 Posted January 24 On 30/09/2024 at 10:30 AM, brodricj said: You are over thinking this. Any passive HDMI cable will work. Didn't work for me on my Eversolo A6me to Gustard X26pro. Tried several HDMI cables. I2s is a different pin configuration than standard HDMI I believe. It's designed by PS Audio. Why anyone would go away from standard HDMI wiring is totally beyond me. Let's design a pin configuration where you can't use a standard wired HDMI. BRILLIANT!!!!! The only reason I can see anyone doing that is to make people buy your propriety cable. 1
muon* Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) OK, you tried to connect two incompatible devices/connections. The eversolo is HDMI NOT i2s, HDMI is a protocol in of Itself and different from i2s, it will never work as a i2s connection. HDMI is NOT superior to i2s as a connection for audio. Edited January 25 by muon*
muon* Posted January 25 Posted January 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, Robbiefest said: Didn't work for me on my Eversolo A6me to Gustard X26pro. Tried several HDMI cables. I2s is a different pin configuration than standard HDMI I believe. It's designed by PS Audio. Why anyone would go away from standard HDMI wiring is totally beyond me. Let's design a pin configuration where you can't use a standard wired HDMI. BRILLIANT!!!!! The only reason I can see anyone doing that is to make people buy your propriety cable. From the Eversolo manual. "HDMI output: This port connects to a multi-channel AV amplifier and supports DSD64 Native multi-channel/PCM192KHz multi-channel source code output (up to 5.1 channels)." It is not a i2s connection and will never work with a i2s connection, different protocol, different technology. i2s was NOT designed by PS Audio, It was designed long ago by Philips. Also PS Audio was not the first to use HDMI connectors for i2s transfer, and only the HDMI connectors and cables are the same as HDMI, totally incompatible electrically, it is not HDMI. Read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I²S Edited January 25 by muon* 3
Robbiefest Posted January 25 Posted January 25 6 hours ago, muon* said: From the Eversolo manual. "HDMI output: This port connects to a multi-channel AV amplifier and supports DSD64 Native multi-channel/PCM192KHz multi-channel source code output (up to 5.1 channels)." It is not a i2s connection and will never work with a i2s connection, different protocol, different technology. i2s was NOT designed by PS Audio, It was designed long ago by Philips. Also PS Audio was not the first to use HDMI connectors for i2s transfer, and only the HDMI connectors and cables are the same as HDMI, totally incompatible electrically, it is not HDMI. Read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I²S It's all very confusing when things like this are on the net, esp when they're talking HDMI 2.1. https://www.linsoul.com/products/gustard-i2s
POV Posted January 25 Posted January 25 Just don’t use i2s, there’s no benefit to it. Use USB if you can.
bob_m_54 Posted January 25 Posted January 25 1 hour ago, Robbiefest said: It's all very confusing when things like this are on the net, esp when they're talking HDMI 2.1. https://www.linsoul.com/products/gustard-i2s Yeah that is a bit misleading. It's a cable that can be used for either HDMI or I²S data transmission, but it is not actually telling you they are the same thing.
muon* Posted January 25 Posted January 25 (edited) Yup, just appears to be a HDMI cable, and as long as the two devices are i2s protocol and pin compatible any HDMI cable will work with them, when they employ HDMI connecting interfaces. The difference is only some of the conductors of the 18 in the HDMI cable will be being used, 8 I think. I use a decent quality normal HDMI cable to connect my two i2s devices. Edited January 25 by muon*
Robbiefest Posted January 25 Posted January 25 16 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: Yeah that is a bit misleading. It's a cable that can be used for either HDMI or I²S data transmission, but it is not actually telling you they are the same thing. Very misleading and confusing. I actually thought the Gustaf cable was wired for hdmi out and I2s in. It seems though the 2 formats are not compatible and those who've tried get hash noise and very low volume.
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