Most of my records are now arriving warped - are yours? What to do about it?

[Zardoz]

After years of reliably buying vinyl online, I started to see warped records arrive.  This was firstly one or two, but now seems to be consistent.  One music dealer in Europe has good pricing so I've had a few shipments from them, and about 50-60% of their records are arriving warped.  Sometimes the replacements, if I bought direct, would work, but in the case of the Euro dealer, some copies that were sent out as replacements arrived worse than the ones I rejected.

 

I'm now starting to see the same from other vendors including Discogs, and a friend in the states who was very careful to not let anything sit on the porch etc.

 

This is getting concerning; I'm sure I threw my cantilever out on my Empire 2000z (and that thing would jump on some records).

 

Is tis a climate issue? Is everything sitting in the sun at DXB or LHR or LAX before it makes its final destination here?  Or is there an issue closer to the pressing plant? For example, the blue indie release of the recent Billie Eilish album has a pretty big reputation on Discogs for this, and all five copies, four received from overseas and one from a supplier in Brisbane, all exhibit the issue, and the two replacements from overseas have significant surface noise in line with the warp.

Examples
Moloko MOV, Groove Armada LP1 Le Matos Bllie Eilish copy 1 copy 2 Hoobastank Parcels (slight) but surface noise

Am I just too picky?

 

I also presume there's impact to quality, even if I use a flattening service (there's one in a Melboune-based record store that looks worthwhile, potentially).

 

This whole ordeal is making this hobby disheartening, especially given I like to keep most of my records sealed until I decide to play them.  I don't want to cause damage to my cartridge or cantilever, nor do I want to cause damage to the records themselves, given the amount of effort required to set up a cartridge right, I'm assuming any warp that brings things out of spec is going to be a bad outcome.

[David A]

I can't speak to the trend in records arriving warped as I don't own a record player. But if I did, I'd have this indispensible tool in my kit bag - https://www.afi-record-flattener.com/afi_flat_duo.htm

[Hydrology]

1 hour ago, Zardoz said:

 

 

I also presume there's impact to quality, even if I use a flattening service (there's one in a Melboune-based record store that looks worthwhile, potentially).

 

Based on your videos, and assuming the flattening service you mention uses Orb, Furutech (made by Orb) or the AFI machines, you should be fine without introducing any impact to audio quality. Your videos don't look like the records exhibit any groove deformation, so they should be fine.

I have an Orb and have zero issues with sound quality as a result of the technique. However if a record has groove deformation, you would be wasting your time.

[SonicArt]

my albeit limited experience with warped vinyl had a common theme,  regular thickness records, and shrink wrapped sleeves.  the shrink wrap really pulls on some,  I had some German BoneyM from Rarewaves come warped, the shrink wrap was pulling them into a state of twist.  likely been sitting in the shelf for a while before I got them.

I used to hunt for Concord jazz,  got a lot of nos from OS, and shrink wrap was prevalent.

Now I keep 100 pack of new sleeves on hand,  the ones with the seal edges,  and rip any shrink wrap off immediately and replace it.

Edited October 18, 2024 by SonicArt

[Zardoz]

1 hour ago, SonicArt said:

my albeit limited experience with warped vinyl had a common theme,  regular thickness records, and shrink wrapped sleeves.  the shrink wrap really pulls on some,  I had some German BoneyM from Rarewaves come warped, the shrink wrap was pulling them into a state of twist.  likely been sitting in the shelf for a while before I got them.

I used to hunt for Concord jazz,  got a lot of nos from OS, and shrink wrap was prevalent.

Now I keep 100 pack of new sleeves on hand,  the ones with the seal edges,  and rip any shrink wrap off immediately and replace it.

Interesting! I don't think I've had this happen, but I do think there's a situation with records sitting on a shelf for a while in temperature uncontrolled environments before they are shipped.

 

I've seen warped 180g records, too.  

[Zardoz]

8 hours ago, Hydrology said:

 

Based on your videos, and assuming the flattening service you mention uses Orb, Furutech (made by Orb) or the AFI machines, you should be fine without introducing any impact to audio quality. Your videos don't look like the records exhibit any groove deformation, so they should be fine.

I have an Orb and have zero issues with sound quality as a result of the technique. However if a record has groove deformation, you would be wasting your time.

A few mentions of the Orb doing an alright job.  I don't plan on buying one, as there's a place here in Melbourne that can do it for a small fee.  How can I tell if I have groove deformation?

 

I'd be less concerned of the Orb making any audio issue worse vs the warp having introduced issues in the first place.  The two copies of the latest Billie Eilish album I have on hand (different to the ones in the video) have surface noise/crackle in line with the warp; I suspect that won't go away.

 

I'll give the place with the Orb a shot for some of my records to see how I go.

[Jebediah]

This is an affordable option

 

recordpi.com/products/record-pi-connected-vinyl-record-flattening

 

[Hydrology]

23 minutes ago, Zardoz said:

The two copies of the latest Billie Eilish album I have on hand (different to the ones in the video) have surface noise/crackle in line with the warp; I suspect that won't go away.

 

Which is why I clean each and every record both BEFORE and AFTER they go into the flattener.

If the noise is baked in to begin with, not much you can do, but cleaning every record, especially brand new and sealed ones, for me has made a vast improvement on reducing or eliminate erroneous noise.

[mikizee]

It's for this reason I try to avoid buying records from overseas during the northern hemisphere summer months. I broke my rule a couple of times this year buying records from the US, and both records arrived warped.

 

Fool me once...

[Zardoz]

8 hours ago, mikizee said:

It's for this reason I try to avoid buying records from overseas during the northern hemisphere summer months. I broke my rule a couple of times this year buying records from the US, and both records arrived warped.

 

Fool me once...

I am going to do another order from the Euro supplier shortly, and will compare results to see if there's a difference.   Have you observed better results when buying during their winter?

 

It's frustrating how I just want to buy records and have them arrive in the condition I expect, and what I paid for. 

 

I'd prefer not to invest in a device to flatten records if I could avoid it - but will see if I can get some of mine flattened by an Orb in the short term, and then will see where this goes.

[andyr]

11 hours ago, Zardoz said:

I don't plan on buying one, as there's a place here in Melbourne that can do it for a small fee.

 

I can provide a record-flattening service, in Melbourne - I use a 'RecordPi' - as mentioned here:

 

10 hours ago, Jebediah said:

recordpi.com/products/record-pi-connected-vinyl-record-flattening

 

PM me next time you have a warped LP.  

 

[Felton]

I agree that about 80% of all records coming through the mail are warped in the last 2 years.Increasing frustration led me to buy an Orb record flattener online.

Couldnt be happier with the machine.

Use the Lo setting for coloured vinyl, Med for 120/140 g vinyl and Hi for 180/200g vinyl.

98% successful.Only 2/100 need a second go through.

Records sound better when they are flat.

Wished I had bought one sooner.

[aussievintage]

 

I have found that mildly warped records (as I would describe yours)  tend to flatten themselves when stored vertically on shelves with enough records to fill the shelf space fully.  By this I mean, not half a shelf full where they all tend to lean to one side.

 

I often put on a record I haven't played for a while, that I knew to have a small warp - to pleasantly discover it is often flat or much improved.

 

Of course I live in Queensland, so the records are softer up here  

[mikizee]

21 hours ago, Zardoz said:

I am going to do another order from the Euro supplier shortly, and will compare results to see if there's a difference.   Have you observed better results when buying during their winter?

 

If I can help it, which is not always, I try to buy in the milder months, spring and autumn. That seems to work.

[arthur63]

Bought a Jason Mraz LP as a birthday gift for a friend early last year when it was winter in the Northern Hemisphere.

When it arrived I knew from the cardboard mailer this wasn't going to be pretty.

Contacted the seller and sent these photos.  They sent a replacement which luckily was fine.

Didn't bother opening the record until recently after trying to flatten it under some box sets.

Still looks like a pringle.

  

Edited October 24, 2024 by arthur63

[Zardoz]

Wow that's a bit extreme!

 

Yesterday I received a record from a UK-based supplier. Obvious damage on the mailer and the record. Didn't open it, sent them a message and a replacement is on the way.

 

But check out this from Amazon! Fortunately the two mailers inside the box seem to be unharmed, but still....

 

[arthur63]

@Zardoz I bet your heart sunk when you saw the state of the Amazon box, so lucky your records were in still in their mailers.

 

My recent Amazon order from the US was not so fortunate as the record wasn't in a mailer.

The box was packed with brown wrapping paper and the record placed on top with no protection on top.

In transit the box must have been up against another parcel which caused large creases on two corners of the cover - not happy.

Also, the record itself was slightly dished.

 

Luckily Amazon returns are quite easy to arrange so sent it back for refund.

 

[Guest Moon 600i V2]

9 hours ago, arthur63 said:

@Zardoz I bet your heart sunk when you saw the state of the Amazon box, so lucky your records were in still in their mailers.

 

My recent Amazon order from the US was not so fortunate as the record wasn't in a mailer.

The box was packed with brown wrapping paper and the record placed on top with no protection on top.

In transit the box must have been up against another parcel which caused large creases on two corners of the cover - not happy.

Also, the record itself was slightly dished.

 

Luckily Amazon returns are quite easy to arrange so sent it back for refund.

 

This is how I get them in Canada. I know the people doing the packaging are earning minimum wage and are allowed only seconds to process each order but would they pack glassware like this? At least make the outer box the same dimensions as the LP so that it doesn't shift about. Same with CDs, I had to buy jewel cases to replace the ones that get delivered because the packaging is insufficient for the job and they throw the envelope onto my front steps. Can they not adopt the robust packaging that Acoustic Sounds use?

[frankn]

It seems that vinyl flatness has become a “lucky dip” with respect to pressing /  storage & shipping. 
I mainly purchase from a store as it is easier to return if I have issues and it doesn’t appear to matter a what price point the purchase is. 
I’ve returned MoFi One Step albums, this week a replacement turned up and has a similar issue. It’s playing fine but it is annoying if I look at the arm/stylus following a roller coaster movement at one point on the album. 
On the other hand, I just picked up an ECM Luminessence pressing which is great, and so quiet wrt surface noise etc. 

[Anodecap]

I no longer buy new vinyl full stop. Warped, off centre, noisy, large pops due to pressed in flaws, questionable source material. I can't justify $50 plus for inferior crap. I am sure all of the overseas dealers save the warped records for Australia as we are more likely not to send them back. I suspect many also warp in transit. 

It is no wonder that vinyl sales are dropping as new and second hand prices are ridiculous. 

[arthur63]

I too am getting to that point where I’m considering not buying new vinyl as it has become a lucky dip whether you score a fit for purpose or defective product.  
Only problem is I’m addicted

[Guest Moon 600i V2]

If a retailer is going to charge me to return a defective record to, oh let's say, the US then it is no deal. No one else demands such punitive conditions on a consumer. I have one order left with Acoustic Sounds and then I'm done. I received a defective Atlantic 75 Abandoned Luncheonette that is flawed on one side. It cost me $126 CDN to get it because of exchange, duty, shipping and broker fees. No thanks. I'll get the SACD when Amazon.ca has it. When I get a bad CD from Amazon, the vendor sends me a new one and doesn't require the old one back for the same reason that I wouldn't return it. COST.

[stevoz]

On 24/10/2024 at 10:32 PM, Zardoz said:

Wow that's a bit extreme!

 

Yesterday I received a record from a UK-based supplier. Obvious damage on the mailer and the record. Didn't open it, sent them a message and a replacement is on the way.

 

But check out this from Amazon! Fortunately the two mailers inside the box seem to be unharmed, but still....

 

As soon as I saw that first mailer picture, I said "that's a Rarewaves mailer!" and sure enough, it is.

Both my brother and I have spoken to them about their crappy mailers after getting defective LP's from them (including warped) and then getting replacement items (which admittedly they are good for), imploring them to send international orders in stronger mailers.

They have completely ignored us.

It's a real pity because they have a good range of LP's at generally great prices and usually free postage.

Having said that, I don't generally have an issue with warped LP's coming from Europe or anywhere for that matter,  at any time of year. 

Edited October 29, 2024 by stevoz

[Guest Moon 600i V2]

The most common reply that I get when this happens is that it occurred in transit and is therefore not their fault. Well, if they were packaged like Acoustic Sounds or some of the better Discogs vendors, transit would not be a problem. I use my Record Pi flattener more often than anticipated even when I only purchase during the cooler months in North America. Buying from storefront vendors is no guarantee of quality either because if you don't examine the product before leaving the store, any damage is your fault. Even then, the vinyl can be noisy or poorly pressed and not obviously sub par to the naked eye. After all this, China gets the blame for poor quality and I have never received an LP from China but GZ Media is a cowboy outfit! These vendors have a lot in common with drug dealers who hook us on their product and going cold turkey on vinyl is not an attractive option.

[Zardoz]

On 24/10/2024 at 10:44 PM, arthur63 said:

@Zardoz I bet your heart sunk when you saw the state of the Amazon box, so lucky your records were in still in their mailers.

 

My recent Amazon order from the US was not so fortunate as the record wasn't in a mailer.

The box was packed with brown wrapping paper and the record placed on top with no protection on top.

In transit the box must have been up against another parcel which caused large creases on two corners of the cover - not happy.

Also, the record itself was slightly dished.

 

Luckily Amazon returns are quite easy to arrange so sent it back for refund.

 

 

I have the same record - and fortunately this one arrived perfectly, and one of the few that didn't cop warp somehow along the way.  Sadly the red copy of Sunsetter I ordered from the same vendor arrived with a significant warp.  Big yikes on the packing on yours!

 

Worrying that others have observed similar situations.  I'm assuming that in terms in absolute sound quality, de-warping a warped record won't restore the original sound quality, ever so slight as it may be.  

 

I think there's some good points here relating to environmentals, shipping quality and processes in packing, and even pressing quality (the Billie Eilish album has a bit of a reputation on Discogs for being hot garbage, which is a shame as I love the album).  Is it sad that I am literally thinking of getting back into collecting CDs? At least I trust the media.