Power Cord Quality and Sound. An exercise in Curiosity.

[Cafad]

3 hours ago, muon* said:

Not wanting to add controversy, but have all these leads had at least 100hrs run time previous to these tests?

Personally I have no idea if it makes a difference with power cables.

Just curious

In order to be fair (or possibly equally unfair, which amounts to the same thing in this case)  to all contestants none of them have had a 100 hour run in.  Some of them have been used in the past for an unknown amount of hours but most of them are brand new.  Those that have been used, namely the Yellow Spots and the Blue Penguins, have not been used recently.  They have had at least 6 months of storage.

 

 

[wasabijim]

we must be a similar wave length @Cafad without coming across this thread, in the last couple weeks I also swapped in a bunch of OC medical type pwr leads (but no keyring in my order?!?!) One way or another one of those Zebras had made it into the system and I found myself second guessing the workmanship, claimed vs actual design, and safety.  I took the opportunity to tidy up and better separate the nest of pwr and signal leads, and thought I'd experiment with clipping on some  ferrite beads to add a degree of shielding/cleaning up. 

I'm not trying to pin point exactly what did what but just as you described I got that improved leading edge, more tick and firmer "bah" in the bumps and booms.   

  

[Cafad]

5 hours ago, wasabijim said:

we must be a similar wave length @Cafad without coming across this thread, in the last couple weeks I also swapped in a bunch of OC medical type pwr leads (but no keyring in my order?!?!) One way or another one of those Zebras had made it into the system and I found myself second guessing the workmanship, claimed vs actual design, and safety.  I took the opportunity to tidy up and better separate the nest of pwr and signal leads, and thought I'd experiment with clipping on some  ferrite beads to add a degree of shielding/cleaning up. 

I'm not trying to pin point exactly what did what but just as you described I got that improved leading edge, more tick and firmer "bah" in the bumps and booms.   

Cool!

I'd be interested to hear your results with the ferrite beads.  I tried them in various ways long ago and couldn't really pick out any changes, but then I didn't have my current set up back then so maybe things would be different now.  I'm pretty sure I've got a few sitting in a box somewhere, maybe I'll go and look for them once I'm done with what I've already started here.  

[andyr]

On 04/12/2024 at 4:54 PM, Cafad said:

Cool!

I'd be interested to hear your results with the ferrite beads.  I tried them in various ways long ago and couldn't really pick out any changes, but then I didn't have my current set up back then so maybe things would be different now.  I'm pretty sure I've got a few sitting in a box somewhere, maybe I'll go and look for them once I'm done with what I've already started here.  

 

I can't see how ferrite beads installed around a power cord can actually do any good.  

 

They will increase the inductance of the power cord - and, as inductance acts as a brake on current ... this can't be a benefit.  

 

[bob_m_54]

11 hours ago, andyr said:

 

I can't see how ferrite beads installed around a power cord can actually do any good.  

 

They will increase the inductance of the power cord - and, as inductance acts as a brake on current ... this can't be a benefit.  

 

Which is why they are generally fitted to DC voltage feeds to equipment, to supress AC and hash on the DC voltage.

[POV]

On 05/12/2024 at 9:46 PM, andyr said:

 

I can't see how ferrite beads installed around a power cord can actually do any good.  

 

They will increase the inductance of the power cord - and, as inductance acts as a brake on current ... this can't be a benefit.  

 

 

At low frequencies (like 50Hz), the inductance impact is negligible.   Ferrite beads, when effectively deployed are designed to operate within specific frequency ranges.

 

Sadly with these aftermarket power cables many seem to have them thrown on by people that don't understand their application, the frequencies they are seeking to suppress, or where to place them on cables. 

 

In the regular world, where design decisions are based off the practical application of accepted theory, ferrites are used as a cure rather than a randomised hope based 'preventative'.

[andyr]

On 06/12/2024 at 9:39 AM, bob_m_54 said:

Which is why they are generally fitted to DC voltage feeds to equipment, to supress AC and hash on the DC voltage.

 

So I today fitted a 'snap-on' type of ferrite cylinder around the DC power umbilical to a phono stage.  As I could hear some hiss and hum from the spkrs before I did this ... I was hoping that the snap-on ferrite would reduce this.

 

Unfortunately, it did SFA.  

 

6 minutes ago, POV said:

At low frequencies (like 50Hz), the inductance impact is negligible.

 

Aah, OK - so it won't have any (negative) inductance effect on 50Hz mains.  

 

Then, pray, what frequencies do they have an effect on?

 

[klm]

Ferrite rings are most commonly found in visual display units and usually involve passing a single wire multiple times looping through the hollow core. The only company that used them on power cables in this manner was Cardas and only for a short time as the fabrication process was complex and time consuming. I have also used them for phono tonearm leads in the same manner when the cable was small diameter and could be looped at least 3 times. As you said, simply clamping one around an existing cable will achieve nothing as that is not how they are intended to work.

[Cafad]

How fast do SMPS's switch?  Could a ferrite bead be used to attenuate switching noise?  

Edited December 7, 2024 by Cafad

[bob_m_54]

9 hours ago, andyr said:

So I today fitted a 'snap-on' type of ferrite cylinder around the DC power umbilical to a phono stage.  As I could hear some hiss and hum from the spkrs before I did this ... I was hoping that the snap-on ferrite would reduce this.

 

Unfortunately, it did SFA.  

You need to work out what's causing the hiss & hum first. And as noted by @POV they'll do SFA for hum, being in the lower frequency range. You need to have a look at The DC supply to the Phono stage with an oscilloscope, while it is operating, to see if there is actually any HF hash on the line, causing the hiss.

[bob_m_54]

8 hours ago, Cafad said:

How fast do SMPS's switch?  Could a ferrite bead be used to attenuate switching noise?  

Generally 20kHz to around 100kHz, or even higher in some. Any decent SMPS will have very low noise on the output anyway. The best ones are in the order of a couple of mV output ripple @ say 12VDC. The main source of noise from SMPS is radiated EMI/RFI, but again, the better ones will have very low emissions anyway. So to answer your question, possibly, but not likely.

 

[audiofeline]

On 17/11/2024 at 12:14 PM, Cafad said:

... the three power cords that came with my pre/pwr combo units.  They look to be fairly standard cords of 1mm square copper cables.  I do like the yellow clips as they look cool, but I don’t believe they mean anything special.  I’ll call them the “Yellow Spots”....

...Looking back at my group picture I noticed that the Yellow Spots were not on a good angle and that from that picture it would be a complete mystery as to why I named them as I did.  So, just to help clear up that little mystery, here is a picture from a different angle. 

 

See?  Yellow clips.  Hence the “Yellow Spots” name....

Those "yellow clips" remind me of a power cord I had that came with a PAT tester I used several years ago (except the powercord and clips were blue).  The IEC was inserted into a matching socket, with a "click", and the clip would prevent the cord from being accidentally pulled out.  Press the button to remove it.  I would expect the amps the cables came with would have the matching sockets, if they don't I don't know why they would have supplied those cords. 

[Cafad]

On 10/12/2024 at 10:57 PM, audiofeline said:

Those "yellow clips" remind me of a power cord I had that came with a PAT tester I used several years ago (except the powercord and clips were blue).  The IEC was inserted into a matching socket, with a "click", and the clip would prevent the cord from being accidentally pulled out.  Press the button to remove it.  I would expect the amps the cables came with would have the matching sockets, if they don't I don't know why they would have supplied those cords. 

I don't know either but I bought the Kalugas second hand and they came with the yellow spot cords and the Makua new, and it came with a yellow spot cord, so I'm assuming those cords are the default cords.  It seems pretty likely.

 

And now for the next episode.

 

I did not end up using the Viborg cords that were in the original pic back in the first post.  (because I remembered them being buggers to work on and I didn't really want to have to pull them apart again) So I found some cords on Aliexpress and bought 3 of them, but they came with US power plugs on them so I had to work on them anyway to change out the ends. They didn't turn out to be as bad to work with as I seem to remember so things worked out OK overall.

 

Anyway they are shielded as advertised, all wires shielded individually and then both a foil and braid shield over the whole three again.  Electrical testing shows that there is indeed a good connection between the ground and the shield so they are indeed what I was expecting to be using.

 

Freya's vocals were top notch through the Viborgs.  As if she was singing the song again but this time while she was at the absolute top of her game (or perhaps in those same mountains on an even clearer, more windless day).  Rich, sultry and playful.  Absolutely gorgeous! 

Alan's voice, the guitar, the ringing effect at the beginning of the song, everything actually, is just as good as it is through the EGMs.  

Ditto for Jennifer and all the instrumentals on Bird on a Wire, and I listened to the whole song just to see if I could find anything that I considered different.

Let's Get Rocked was slightly cleaner and clearer than I thought it would be, almost as if it was a recording that was produced more conventionally and not one that had been tweaked to deliberately sound more like it was being played by a bunch of hooligans.  That was interesting.

 

And so, impressed but also intrigued, I continued on.  I went through another two songs with no real findings and then went back to Guns and Roses version of You Could be Mine and there it was (or rather wasn't) no slap or tap to the smaller drums.  Damn it!  So while the Viborgs are very good indeed, and may well be as good as the EGMs, they are not perfect.

 

Of course this got me thinking, since EGM recommend using thicker cables for power amps and thinner ones (but with multiple runs) for preamps I was starting to wonder if I was skewing the results by using the Black Pearl for the Makua when I'm using the EGMs but using all three different cables when I use each of the other contestants.

 

So, just for kicks, I took the Viborg cable off the Makua (but left them on the Kalugas) and put in the Black Pearl.  And the tap and the slap, they came back,  but Freya isn't quite the same. 

 

I have to think on this.  I may require a third EGM Emerald.

 

 

[Dingbat]

Just stumbled on this thread. I have to come back later and read it again in more detail. Really useful. I've been grappling myself with just how much I want to experiment on the power side. I'm philosophically opposed to spending ridiculous amounts of money on anything other than the actual HiFi system itself. I was thinking that I might just have to buy either second hand or new, a couple of power chords and also experiment, but haven't embarked on that yet because the permutations are endless. I don't really want to spend a lot of time and money piss farting around with this side of things.

[Cafad]

On 18/12/2024 at 2:54 PM, Dingbat said:

Just stumbled on this thread. I have to come back later and read it again in more detail. Really useful. I've been grappling myself with just how much I want to experiment on the power side. I'm philosophically opposed to spending ridiculous amounts of money on anything other than the actual HiFi system itself. I was thinking that I might just have to buy either second hand or new, a couple of power chords and also experiment, but haven't embarked on that yet because the permutations are endless. I don't really want to spend a lot of time and money piss farting around with this side of things.

I hear you.  I think it's a crazy world that we live in where it is possible to spend more on a power cord than on the mono-block that it plugs in to.  That's why you have to weigh up each and every option and determine if it is worth the cost to you.

 

I really like that EGM don't charge thousands of bucks for their top of the line product, even though I feel that they are expensive-ish they aren't so damn expensive that you have to be a person who could seriously consider owning a Ferrari in order to outfit your system with their power cords.  They are also an Ozzie business so that's a bonus too as I get to support a local industry.  There are other options out there of course, I've just stopped my comparing at a point that seems to make sense to me.  I could have kept going but I think I'm done, for now at any rate.

 

I've just done a quick 1,2,3 between the EGM Black Pearl, EGM Emerald and a Viborg on the Makua pre while keeping the Kalugas fed with Viborgs.  

With percussion the Black Pearl is the winner, with vocals the Viborg is the winner, as an all rounder the Emerald is the winner as it does percussion damn near as good as the Black Pearl and vocals that are damn near as good as the Viborg.  There is something more going on there with the Emerald but it's hard for me to explain so I'll just call it a slightly superior sense of tonal correctness and leave it at that.

 

With the Kalugas on the Viborgs and the Makua on the EGM Emerald the Mola Molas are sounding better than they ever have so I think I'll leave this comparison here for now.  (Although I am curious as to the difference the Emeralds may make to the sound of the Heschl, maybe I'll get to that on Boxing Day.  That could be a good stereo-related thing to do post-Christmas.)

 

Happy Holidays Everybody!

[Dingbat]

@Cafad - Really excellent the level of detail you are giving comparing the various power cords, and the write up on what EGM do. I agree, on one level, the top model EGMs are somewhat expensive, but on the other hand, there are other power cables that cost even much more than that. HiFi can be such a slippery slope.

[scuzzii]

thanks for this thread @Cafad.  I've not come across EGM cables before and have been quite happy with my Audio Principe power leads (another aussie maker).  Food for thought.

 

I have the signature shielded model

 

[075Congo]

About 4 months ago I completed a DIY Power Cord project.......I put together 2 by 2 meter Furutech power cords using the TCS21 bulk power cord and Furutech IEC and Furutech AUS/NZ power plugs. There is an online you-tube clip made by Furutech which takes you through all the construction steps, A rough estimate of cost is approx $500 per cable. All materials were sourced through AV Gallery. Resulting cables are very flexible and work very well with my system components. My only reservation re EGM and the various ISOTEK cords is the quality of the connectors used compared to Furutech.

[ray4410]

21 minutes ago, 075Congo said:

About 4 months ago I completed a DIY Power Cord project.......I put together 2 by 2 meter Furutech power cords using the TCS21 bulk power cord and Furutech IEC and Furutech AUS/NZ power plugs. There is an online you-tube clip made by Furutech which takes you through all the construction steps, A rough estimate of cost is approx $500 per cable. All materials were sourced through AV Gallery. Resulting cables are very flexible and work very well with my system components. My only reservation re EGM and the various ISOTEK cords is the quality of the connectors used compared to Furutech.

you do know that Curiosity killed the cat Mick 

[075Congo]

Took all possible precautions in my DIY project so the Cat is both alive and still curious. I am also using 2 Furutech Flow 15 Plus Inline Power filters attached to my power cords. See attached photo from AV Gallery website. I don't use a power conditioner so these Furutech Filters seem pretty effective in improving the quality of power going to my components.

[Gryffles]

On 18/02/2025 at 3:07 PM, 075Congo said:

About 4 months ago I completed a DIY Power Cord project.......I put together 2 by 2 meter Furutech power cords using the TCS21 bulk power cord and Furutech IEC and Furutech AUS/NZ power plugs. There is an online you-tube clip made by Furutech which takes you through all the construction steps, A rough estimate of cost is approx $500 per cable. All materials were sourced through AV Gallery. Resulting cables are very flexible and work very well with my system components. My only reservation re EGM and the various ISOTEK cords is the quality of the connectors used compared to Furutech.

I like Furutech and I understand people use them as they make AU/NZ plugs. I'd encourage you to try some of the offerings from Oyaide and IeGo

 

I can vouch for the Oyaide AC004 Armoured series and the Iego Gold plugs. I have an Inakustik power filter so change the sockets to suit the plug. Stillpossible to try some of them by using the IEC plugs

 

Its a rabbit hole though haha

[Cafad]

On 18/02/2025 at 3:07 PM, 075Congo said:

About 4 months ago I completed a DIY Power Cord project.......I put together 2 by 2 meter Furutech power cords using the TCS21 bulk power cord and Furutech IEC and Furutech AUS/NZ power plugs. There is an online you-tube clip made by Furutech which takes you through all the construction steps, A rough estimate of cost is approx $500 per cable. All materials were sourced through AV Gallery. Resulting cables are very flexible and work very well with my system components. My only reservation re EGM and the various ISOTEK cords is the quality of the connectors used compared to Furutech.

Nicely done Mick.  Would you happen to have taken any pics? 

 

3 hours ago, Gryffles said:

I like Furutech and I understand people use them as they make AU/NZ plugs. I'd encourage you to try some of the offerings from Oyaide and IeGo

 

I can vouch for the Oyaide AC004 Armoured series and the Iego Gold plugs. I have an Inakustik power filter so change the sockets to suit the plug. Stillpossible to try some of them by using the IEC plugs

 

Its a rabbit hole though haha

I've been down a few rabbit holes now and at least this one has some nice and shiny copper fittings kitting it out.  

 

I like the look of that Oyaide Tunami cable, pity they don't seem to make aussie plugs.   But yeah, pretty much no-one makes Aussie plugs so that limits our choices a bit.  I do have a Consonance power board which can accept virtually any plug but then I've also got the cord that feeds that board in the circuit and that is not what I want, more is not better in this case.

 

I'm thinking about getting some lengths of Tunami and some Furutech plugs.  I'm not sure how hard I'm thinking about it, but I am thinking about it.

[gemini07]

1 hour ago, Cafad said:

Nicely done Mick.  Would you happen to have taken any pics? 

 

I've been down a few rabbit holes now and at least this one has some nice and shiny copper fittings kitting it out.  

 

I like the look of that Oyaide Tunami cable, pity they don't seem to make aussie plugs.   But yeah, pretty much no-one makes Aussie plugs so that limits our choices a bit.  I do have a Consonance power board which can accept virtually any plug but then I've also got the cord that feeds that board in the circuit and that is not what I want, more is not better in this case.

 

I'm thinking about getting some lengths of Tunami and some Furutech plugs.  I'm not sure how hard I'm thinking about it, but I am thinking about it.

I use Oyaide Vondita for my power cables to my sources and I have them fitted with Viborg connectors (AUS), all through ebay. A bit expensive but much cheaper than buying pre-made.

[RoyW]

On 1/3/2025 at 11:03 AM, Cafad said:

 

I'm thinking about getting some lengths of Tunami and some Furutech plugs.  I'm not sure how hard I'm thinking about it, but I am thinking about it.

I have the Tunami (pcocc) and Black Mamba if you want to borrow.  They are both pre-made with oyaide plugs.

[Cafad]

On 08/03/2025 at 12:03 AM, RoyW said:

I have the Tunami (pcocc) and Black Mamba if you want to borrow.  They are both pre-made with oyaide plugs.

Thanks for the offer mate, I'm definitely interested.