Speaker recommendations for a small room (3.2 x 3.5) that are fast/lively/loud, say $10k budget

[Gints86]

Moving back home to Australia soon. Good news? I finally get a room I can dedicate to listening, including acoustic treatments. Bad news? It is small.

 

My last 2 systems have been a pair of bi-amped Cornscalas in a large living room, followed by some Vienna Accoustics Beethoven Baby Grand Symphony in my reflective Singapore condo!

 

What would you recommend considering the below:

1. I listen mostly to rock/rock based instrument music across the spectrum. From Folk/Classic rock, right through some pretty heavy and dense metal (fast kick drums, densely layered guitars/bass, very easy to get muddy), and everything in between. 
2. I naturally gravitate toward floorstanding speakers, but I realise they could overpower such a room and it's acoustics, and would be looking on the smaller side (or to high performing bookshelf/stand speakers but I have hangups)
3. I have played and gig'd alot previously as drummer in hard rock bands. I love live music. I love feeling the crack of the snare, the force of the kick drum, I love hearing an overdriven guitar scream out
4. I suppose I have more interest in the music feeling present,  lively, fast, than I do in some of the more 'audiophile' pursuits of perfection. That said, I still want nice imaging and everything else - but perhaps perfect timbre and reproduction is not top of my requirements list.
5. I will be able to place speakers at will within the room as it is sole purpose listening room, however obviously there is not much space in any dimension so they will be closish to walls. I do have MiniDSP SHD Dirac available for room correction if required and I will be treating the room (Bass Traps/Absorption/Diffussion)

 

Osborn Speakers have come highly recommended - I like the look of the Eclipse Reference, and I understand they have the light/fast drivers I may need. Bass may be too much? I will be listening to some next trip back.

 

What else would you recommend me consider?

 

Disregarding budget, but I have seen locally here in SG (and progressively trying to audition):

- ProAc - D20R? D30R? D48R? Downward port may help my room situation. Have not heard yet, may be a bit too warm and suited to more mellow music.

- Spendor - Love the look and sound of D9.2, however they are rear ported and probably too large. D7.2 could be the ticket

- Focal Sopra No. 1 - Smaller but seems to be regarded as fast and punchy

- ATC - these seem to have a good reputation as a speaker for 'heavy/rock' music

- Dynaudio - Evoke 30, smaller Contour series (20/30)

 

How would those options compare with the Osborns? Recognise it is hard comparing mass produced speakers to local (and I do like the idea of support Australian made), however I am just in the 'opinion gathering/research' phase so open to all viewpoints.

Edited December 12, 2024 by Regan Ireland

[mwhouston]

Judging by music tastes something with a 12” woofer or two. 

[Bronal]

I have my second system in a room the same size as yours.  I don't listen to much rock these days, but I do listen to a lot of electronic and ambient music.

 

The main problem I have found is overloading the room.  For this reason I have spent years and a lot of $ looking for small floorstanders that deliver decent bass without overpowering the room at higher SPLs.   DRC is also very useful in minimising standing waves.  

 

IMHO, most of the speakers in your list are simply too big for your room.  I am a fan of Osborns and have owned Eclipse Reference Towers, but I don't think Eclipses would work in your room as they will be pushing out too much air at higher volumes.

 

The speakers I have settled on are Ophidian Audio Mambo 2s,  small 2.5 way floorstanders with a semi transmission line design with an internal downward firing third driver and a low-velocity rear port.  With DRC I have measured them down to around 30 Hz.  They are exceptional on electronic music and also have a uncoloured and detailed midrange.  They will handle 160 Wpc.

 

https://www.hifipig.com/ophidian-mambo-2-loudspeakers/

[Gints86]

Thanks I'll take a look. Yes I think deep down I know I need to go smaller.

 

I am just stuck on my old preconceived ideas about larger speakers.

[Analogueage]

The Osborn bookshelves are great in a small room. I have the EOS ref and a mate as the Titan ref, incredible sound especially for the price.

Rob

[Gints86]

33 minutes ago, Analogueage said:

The Osborn bookshelves are great in a small room. I have the EOS ref and a mate as the Titan ref, incredible sound especially for the price.

Rob

Yes the Titans look very good. I will try to listen when back in Oz.

[David A]

I'd recommend the Pylon Audio Jade 20 speakers. I heard those speakers at the Australian Hifi show in Sydney earlier this year paired with the Fezz Audio Titania integrated, and they got my BOS for good value floorstanders. Apropos that, they're quite short speakers. And due to their front-ported design, can be placed reasonably close to the wall. So you could get away with them in a small room.

 

They are natural and musical sounding & got my feet tapping. They also have good bass for a small speaker thanks to their 12" midwoofers. And they're tube-friendly being 8 ohms into 91db sensitivity. Imho they're a bargain at their price point, which is $6-.7.5kAUD (with the optional integrated stands).
 

Edited December 12, 2024 by David A

[cafe67]

I’ll suggest the Revel f206 or perhaps the f208 - I had the f208 in a roughly 4m x 4m room and they worked, both are front ported and the f208 also a normal/boundary switch for close in or out from walls 

 

going slightly wild, the marten Oscar duo produce some amazing bass for a smallish bookshelf yet still sound refined and detailed. 
 

and in similar style , these perhaps 

 

https://www.osbornloudspeakers.com.au/copy-of-titan-1

 

Edited December 12, 2024 by cafe67

[AudioGeek]

Given the small room size, have you considered a studio monitor type speaker?

These are designed to work in nearfield, say 1.5-2m listening distance. Narrow dispersion means less reflections and lots of bass control options. Also dont needs amps etc.

Specifically I was thonking Genelec 8331A ir 8341A with a small sub. Genelec GLM makes room correction /DSP very easy, I like it better than Dirac. Neuman KH150 are amazing as well. The KH310 are often on sale.

 

If you are moving to Sydney I can point you where to audition studio monitors, everything from Focal, Genelec, Neuman etc. You might be very surprised how good studio speakers sound in the home.

[alex87]

I second @AudioGeek’s recommendation of studio monitors. Some brands like Genelec recommend placement close to the walls to reduce SBIR and the coaxial ones have listening distances from as low as 0.5m. In a small room you will be restricted to the depth of treatment you can install, which means absorption of low-mids to bass range will be affected, making room correction/DSP a must to correct for the low end. 

[Bronal]

Setting up a full-range (in terms of volume) system in a small room is a tricky proposition, especially if you want to listen to music all the way from folk to metal.  That's hard enough to do, even in an averaged-sized room.  I would be wary of recommendations from people who have not owned the speakers they are recommending. Inappropriate speakers often sound impressive at first, only to reveal their shortcomings in the context of a small room (boomy or muddy bass, harshness in the upper mids and treble) over time.

 

Unfortunately, speaker manufacturers tend to equate small rooms with standmount speakers and in truth that is what most people want.  As a consequence, most don't put much effort into designing high-performance small floorstanders.  I have had many standmount speakers in my second system, including Harbeth 7ES3s and 30.2s, but I always come back to floorstanders.  Why, I don't know.  Probably an irrational psychological hurdle that I can't overcome.  If I were to consider standmounts I would consider the Osborn Titans very carefully.  I haven't heard them myself, but my experience with Osborns (Epitomes and Eclipses) has been very good and I would expect them to have the Osborn house sound - full presentation with excellent bass.  Also, you will be in Melbourne and will be able to audition them.

 

And don't overlook DRC.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Bronal

[Guest]

This will do all you want (including all the hangups   )

https://buchardtaudio.com/collections/active-speakers/products/a700-limited-edition

 

 

 

[Steff]

An active system certainly would present significant space savings.

 

For loud and fast dynamics, these small horns - Avantgarde Colibri - look very attractive, and within the ten k price spec:

https://www.klappav.com.au/shop/speakers/avantgarde-colibri-c2-compact-2-way-single-loudspeaker-system-black/

There's a pretty impressive video of them in action (plus sub) on youtube. But might not be easy to get them under control in the 3.2x3.5 room.* and aesthetics is another criterion.

 

*esp. with a likely higher Schroeder freq. and lots of resonant modal behaviour up to ~500hz

Edited December 13, 2024 by Steff

[Gints86]

Thanks all for the diverse inputs - clearly more than one way to skin this cat!

 

Will do more reading on the above, but I appreciate it.

[Gints86]

7 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

This will do all you want (including all the hangups   )

https://buchardtaudio.com/collections/active-speakers/products/a700-limited-edition

 

 

 

Very interesting. They look nice, and the cardioid feature where the rear drivers deliberately cancel 90-300Hz sounds interesting and useful.

 

Look nice too!

[Bronal]

3 hours ago, Regan Ireland said:

Very interesting. They look nice, and the cardioid feature where the rear drivers deliberately cancel 90-300Hz sounds interesting and useful.

 

Look nice too!

I have a number of issues with this suggestion.

 

First, Buchardt don't publish the sensitivity of the speakers.  If it is any more than about 87 dB, then there is the real danger of the speakers overloading the room, regardless of the cardoid feature.

 

Second, the inbuilt Class D amplification means you have no flexibility should you want to change your system in that area later on.  Also, no details are given of the type of modules used.  Class D is still rapidly evolving and what sounds good today might sound dated in a couple of years' time.

 

Third, Buchardt sell direct to the consumer which means that you can't listen to the speakers before purchase and if you don't like them you will have to go to the trouble of sending them back to Denmark.

 

Fourth, the price.  Buchardt list 'B' stock A700LEs for e6300, which equates to over A$10,000, so at the very top of your budget.

 

Are you still living in Singapore?  If so, can you audition possible speakers there and if you find some you think will be suitable, ship them back to Australia as part of your personal effects - I'm assuming that hi fi is cheaper in Singapore than in Australia. 

Edited December 13, 2024 by Bronal

[Bronal]

Thinking about it a bit more, I wonder whether one of the  smaller PMC floorstanders would fit your needs.

 

They are a transmisson-line design and normally have good bass, with a front port and are easy to position and locate.

 

Perhaps someone can provide a more specific recommendation.

[Satanica]

5 hours ago, Regan Ireland said:

Very interesting. They look nice, and the cardioid feature where the rear drivers deliberately cancel 90-300Hz sounds interesting and useful.

Especially useful in a small room as they somewhat overcome some of the usual Speaker Boundary Interference Response (SBIR) effects. This means you should be able to move them close to the rear wall with less acoustical issues and saving room realestate.

[Gints86]

2 hours ago, Bronal said:

I have a number of issues with this suggestion.

 

First, Buchardt don't publish the sensitivity of the speakers.  If it is any more than about 87 dB, then there is the real danger of the speakers overloading the room, regardless of the cardoid feature.

 

Second, the inbuilt Class D amplification means you have no flexibility should you want to change your system in that area later on.  Also, no details are given of the type of modules used.  Class D is still rapidly evolving and what sounds good today might sound dated in a couple of years' time.

 

Third, Buchardt sell direct to the consumer which means that you can't listen to the speakers before purchase and if you don't like them you will have to go to the trouble of sending them back to Denmark.

 

Fourth, the price.  Buchardt list 'B' stock A700LEs for e6300, which equates to over A$10,000, so at the very top of your budget.

 

Are you still living in Singapore?  If so, can you audition possible speakers there and if you find some you think will be suitable, ship them back to Australia as part of your personal effects - I'm assuming that hi fi is cheaper in Singapore than in Australia. 

Yes still in Singapore, actively trying to audition a few different brands, have identifed a few demo locations for some of the suggestions above. Prices are probably comparable - $SGD is strong at the moment compared to $AUD however, so it does make it comparatively expensive here.

[Gints86]

20 hours ago, cafe67 said:

I’ll suggest the Revel f206 or perhaps the f208 - I had the f208 in a roughly 4m x 4m room and they worked, both are front ported and the f208 also a normal/boundary switch for close in or out from walls 

 

going slightly wild, the marten Oscar duo produce some amazing bass for a smallish bookshelf yet still sound refined and detailed. 
 

and in similar style , these perhaps 

 

https://www.osbornloudspeakers.com.au/copy-of-titan-1

 

Coincidences hey. I'd never really heard of Revel until your post, then today I was looking at this super local store (just insane amounts of seconed hand speakers and amps all smashed into 2 tiny stores in a dingey old mall) - lo and behold.

 

I had a listen (however owner only had some very bland typical audiophile style CDs and the setup was completely compromised) but they are definitely a nice sounding speaker! Also had some Salon2.

 

 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Bronal said:

I have a number of issues with this suggestion.

 

First, Buchardt don't publish the sensitivity of the speakers.  If it is any more than about 87 dB, then there is the real danger of the speakers overloading the room, regardless of the cardoid feature.

 

Second, the inbuilt Class D amplification means you have no flexibility should you want to change your system in that area later on.  Also, no details are given of the type of modules used.  Class D is still rapidly evolving and what sounds good today might sound dated in a couple of years' time.

 

Third, Buchardt sell direct to the consumer which means that you can't listen to the speakers before purchase and if you don't like them you will have to go to the trouble of sending them back to Denmark.

 

Fourth, the price.  Buchardt list 'B' stock A700LEs for e6300, which equates to over A$10,000, so at the very top of your budget.

 

Are you still living in Singapore?  If so, can you audition possible speakers there and if you find some you think will be suitable, ship them back to Australia as part of your personal effects - I'm assuming that hi fi is cheaper in Singapore than in Australia. 

Have you ever tried any Buchardt active speakers? Friends have lent me the A10 and A500SE. They work well, even in large rooms and can go very loud, without overloading.  

 

Yes the A700 LE is at OP's budget limit (for a passive speaker), but this is an all-in-one active DSP speaker.   SQ is not determined by the Class D amp alone, but by how the Class D amps work in conjunction with the speaker internal design, tweeter, woofers and most importantly, the DSP.

 

OP may want to take the opportunity to simplify his setup, and, can choose to spend less with the A10.

[cafe67]

1 hour ago, Regan Ireland said:

Coincidences hey. I'd never really heard of Revel until your post, then today I was looking at this super local store (just insane amounts of seconed hand speakers and amps all smashed into 2 tiny stores in a dingey old mall) - lo and behold.

 

I had a listen (however owner only had some very bland typical audiophile style CDs and the setup was completely compromised) but they are definitely a nice sounding speaker! Also had some Salon2.

 

 

 

How much did they want for them ? 

[blakey72]

I own a dozen pairs of speakers and when I want to seriously listen to rock/metal/thrash/black I go straight to my PMC's. My Focal's are good, my Dynaudio's are good but my PMC's are great! They are just so fast and punchy. For their size they give a bigger sound than they have any right to. 

 

They are very accurate though so a great recording will sound magical however a bad recording will give you warts and all. Look at the twenty5 21i's or twenty5 22i's perhaps.

 

https://pmc-speakers.com/home-audio/twenty5i/

Edited December 13, 2024 by blakey72

[Gints86]

53 minutes ago, cafe67 said:

How much did they want for them ? 

$4800 SGD pre-negotiation.  Not ready to pull trigger yet so didn't bother getting into negotiation.

[cafe67]

55 minutes ago, Regan Ireland said:

$4800 SGD pre-negotiation.  Not ready to pull trigger yet so didn't bother getting into negotiation.

Big speakers to bring back and then discover they don’t work in your room