Upgrade suggestions

[Softailricho]

Looking for some suggestions on enhancing my vinyl experience. 
My current setup (I’ll only list what’s relevant to my setup)

 

Denon avr3802 reciever. 

Accusound floorstanders (can’t remember which model but not omegas they were a mid range line)

 

Audiotechnica lp1240 turntable. (Some of you might remember the dramas I had with this thing) Using the phono input on the receiver and running an acrylic platter mat.
currently I’m on my second at vm95e 

first one had about 50 hours before a mishap. The new one has around 100 hours.

 

 

The 95e gives me some distortion on certain records.  Especially on inner grooves. Others not so much. After a certain volume I start to receive feedback. 

I can usually get it loud enough to keep me happy. However I wouldn’t mind a better or more refined sound. I do have an src copy that claims to be audiophile but sounds very distorted on inner and outer grooves however I bought it second hand. I always question who’s handled these records. 
 

Anyways the ideas I had in mind were the following.  Also please comment if I’m wasting my time with some I don’t have the money for a decent amp at the moment.  The 3802 could do with a service but she’s a workhorse and won’t die.  

- a new turntable.  I’ve been looking at the technics 1200mk7. It seems to have subtle differences to the mk2 but a tad better in some aspects.  
Firstly I’m not a DJ and never will be. However I love the look of these tables. But aesthetics mean nothing to me if I’m wasting my time or cash.  
It’s in my budget. I would prefer not to buy a haggard mk2 for nearly the same money.  However I could stretch the budget if there is a better option out there that would give me significant improvements. 

- new cables for the TT the ones it came with looked very questionable. If so what would be a good quality upgrade let’s say under $150? The lower the number the better.  
 

- new stylus.  I’ve been looking at the vm95ml. Would I see significant gains on my current system? Or would it be minimal improvement over my 95e. 
 

- an external phono input. 
If so any suggestions?  
 

- a new amp 

ideally I’d love a new amp.  My budget would be similar to that I’m looking to spend on the technics 1200.  Is that money better spent here?  
 

I’ll be honest I’m not super wealthy at the moment but I love this hobby and  I am ready for the next step so to speak. 
 

I am happy with how my cds sound however I should mention something with this.  
when I first set this up there seemed to be no limit to my volume. Now if it gets too loud it will cut out. Perhaps another sign the amp is tired? 
player is a Cambridge audio 640c

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ryehifi]

I love Rega, great company, great products, and affordable compared many hi fi companies.

 

Explore their range! 

[wen]

@Softailricho All your gear at their level review well, the cartridge problem could be alignment, going up to the at vm-95ml will give you a more refined sound and track better, other options Ortofon blue or bronze, the list is endless, research reviews, pay attention to the music they use to review the gear, if possible audition, let your ears be the judge, pick out some tracks that float your boat and use these to reviews gear you are auditioning. Buying a separate phono ,best value budget is the ifi zen, should improve the sound. You will get many differing opinions on the same gear, the value of this site. 

Edited December 18, 2024 by wen

[Softailricho]

@wen

 

thankyou for your suggestions 

I can say my cartridge is aligned, how well I cannot say. It was aligned to what I believe was close to Baerwald alignment. I believe this type of table favours the Stevenson alignment/Technics overhang method. 
I unfortunately do not have a technics gauge. And when the time came to upgrade my cartridge the plan was to install the 95e on a different headshell and use a different protractor. And then install my new cart on my current headshell. (My spare is black. While my current HS is silver and matches my tone arm).   I’ll still use the 95e on occasion or hand it down to one of my friends getting into the hobby. 
 

I will look into the IFI zen as I’ll need to move the turntable to align it properly therefore I may aswell change the cables and potentially the phono stage while I’m at it. 

[21stcenturyquaker]

I recently bought a Reloop Turn5 turntable (Sl1200 copy without DJ pitch slider) With a Origin Live mat it sounds very impressive for the money: I got it in a sale for $937 with an Ortofon 2m Red. I haven't heard a 1200mk7 but I think the Reloop is very good value.

[Guest Moon 600i V2]

I listen to and read a lot of advice before auditioning to narrow my scope. (Trying to find the weakness in the system is vital to avoid unnecessary changes.) I then take favourite samples of music in respective formats and try to use similar systems to audition. Making sideways movement is more likely than it seems when aural memory is suspect. It usually takes me year to make up my mind because WANT tends to supersede NEED. You are picking a sound that you like and not a real event replicated in your home. Anyone who has had children practicing their musical instrument at home can attest to what even poor music can sound like at real volume. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

Edited December 20, 2024 by Moon 600i V2
spell check

[RCAJack]

20 hours ago, Ryehifi said:

I love Rega, great company, great products, and affordable compared many hi fi companies.

 

Explore their range! 

I’ll second this. Take a look at a Rega turntable, maybe a P2 with a nice cartridge? Great performance and looks. 
 

I normally mention that the Rega has zero automatic features, like auto return at the end of a side. I think you have to manually switch the belt position on the pulley to change speeds which can be a pain if you play a mix of LPs and 45ss.

 

Project turntables are similar to Rega design wise but a little cheaper. 

 

The Technics doesn’t auto return either but speed switching is at least easy. Also not sure if the 1200 Mark 7 has a hinged lid which I think some of the other Technics players do? Purists say to remove it anyway of course. 

Another option is the Technics SL-1500c with its built in phono stage. Build quality has a bit more in common with the 1200GR. Also normally shipped with a decent cartridge as it’s hifi rather than DJ focused.

 

interestingly, the 1500 model has an auto return feature at the end of a side that can be switched off if you don’t want it. I’ve read the auto return can kick in too early and the cueing action isn’t as nice as other models but not sure how they all compare. A demo is recommended!

Maybe start with getting an expert to assess your turntable, fit a new stylus and get the alignment sorted. 

[wen]

A Rega RP3  or equivalent/similar would be the minimum level for an upgrade and negotiate for a cartridge upgrade, plus the ifi Zen, then speakers and last an amp, the amp should only be bought with an audition in your house. Cables?, negotiate with each purchase, slightly better than basic or ones that come with the gear would be the minimum.

[RCAJack]

1 hour ago, wen said:

A Rega RP3  or equivalent/similar would be the minimum level for an upgrade and negotiate for a cartridge upgrade, plus the ifi Zen, then speakers and last an amp, the amp should only be bought with an audition in your house. Cables?, negotiate with each purchase, slightly better than basic or ones that come with the gear would be the minimum.

I’d appreciate thoughts on why a 3 would be the minimum level of upgrade. It seems like his current turntable is in such a bad way that to my mind it should be pretty easy to improve on. Then allocate extra cash to speakers (pending a demo).

[wen]

@RCAJack the rega 2 and at1240 are about the same price, the rega 3 would be considered an affordable upgrade. There is also no definitive reason it sounds so bad, @Softailricho i would suggest that you get someone willing to have a look at it at your house and get the best advice on options.

[blakey72]

Well I think this is what I'd do with $1500.

 

Cambridge Audio AXR85 Stereo Receiver $599

Q Acoustics Q3030i Bookshelf Speakers $489

Nagaoka MP-100 Cartridge $169

600mm Pedestal Speaker Stands $139

 

Run your LP1240 into the Cambridge AXR85 Phono Input. Grab a new cheaper cord. That IMO is a decent step up in sound quality.

 

[Guest Moon 600i V2]

9 hours ago, wen said:

A Rega RP3  or equivalent/similar would be the minimum level for an upgrade and negotiate for a cartridge upgrade, plus the ifi Zen, then speakers and last an amp, the amp should only be bought with an audition in your house. Cables?, negotiate with each purchase, slightly better than basic or ones that come with the gear would be the minimum.

If you get the P3 you can option the electronic speed control. Comes standard on P3-50. I had a P25 that lasted 25 years until I went up in the line. It never faltered if the belts and bearing oil were kept fresh. I only had the Exact 1 cart at the beginning and the table accommodated Benz ACE , Glider and finally an  Ortofon Cadenza Blue . I'm not selling kool aid, just sharing experience from a satisfying experience. There are plenty of good options within your budget. The ability to upgrade parts is not without its attraction.

[blakey72]

Is the LP1240 no good (not operating correctly) then? I thought with a better cart and phono stage it would be ok. I personally think the weakest links are the speakers and amp/receiver.

[RCAJack]

6 hours ago, blakey72 said:

Is the LP1240 no good (not operating correctly) then? I thought with a better cart and phono stage it would be ok. I personally think the weakest links are the speakers and amp/receiver.

Here’s what the OP said in April:

 

Quote

I picked up an AT LP1240. Now I wasnt too worried when i arrived about the stylus as i was planning to change it however it came fitted with a shure m447. The whole deck seems pretty thrashed. Previous owner had no clue. This things definitely had a hard life few scratches, a broken target light the covers seen better days. Things I overlooked in photos I guess i shouldnt have rushed into it but I felt like it was still a reasonable deal so i took it.

So although he got it working better, it seemed like it’s suspect and now deserving of an upgrade to get the most from a fresh cartridge and reduce the inner groove distortion problem (accepting that some records are more problematic than others in this respect). A demo with a few records in a shop could help the OP get to hear what’s possible. 

[Vinylear]

May I suggest you recheck the cartridge alignment. A miss aligned cartridge can contribute to distortion.

Also you say the amp cuts out playing  cds loud, I think you need a better amp. If you're not into surround sound then a two channel amp of at least a 100 Watts would be better. Don't be afraid of buying second hand.

All the best.

[Softailricho]

Thanks everyone for their suggestions 

 

I have picked up a ifi zen phono. I would like to do this one thing at a time to see where I get the most improvement. I will reinstall my 95e cartridge onto my spare headshell and realign to Stevenson specs. leaving my main headshell free for a future cartridge. 
 

I will follow this by getting a new set of rcas for the TT and then just for testing sake I will run it to the same phono input on Denon.  I will then put my new zen phono into the mix. 
 

that’s probably all I’ll have time and money for this year. Maybe in the new year I’ll start to look at an amp. I do have a marantz 7001 here that requires repair.  If I have time over the summer I’ll try get that fixed and see if I see an improvement again. 
 

 

[wen]

@Softailricho I wouldn't bother with the Marantz, save your money and by a decent 2channel amp, new or S/H, look at tweaking what you have, cheaper option and can have significant changes/improvements i.e. whites rubber isolation squares under your gear( Bunnings), squash balls in milk bottle caps to stabilise, bamboo chopping boards under gear. A change in what you hear is only an improvement if you like it, enjoy your journey.

[21stcenturyquaker]

11 hours ago, Softailricho said:

I will reinstall my 95e cartridge onto my spare headshell and realign to Stevenson specs.
 

I would use the cartridge alignment process described in your turntable manual. When I got my Reloop turn5 (Technics copy) I setup the cartridge with a alignment protractor to the Baerwald alignment - it sounded terrible (not that there's anything wrong with a Baerwald alignment per se). I then discovered a post online mentioning the same issue. After returning the cartridge to the Technics alignment (which didn't seem to correspond with any of my protractor alignments) it sounded fine. 

 

In short - refer to the manual and align your cartridge as per their recommendation.

[Softailricho]

On 22/12/2024 at 9:33 AM, 21stcenturyquaker said:

I would use the cartridge alignment process described in your turntable manual. When I got my Reloop turn5 (Technics copy) I setup the cartridge with a alignment protractor to the Baerwald alignment - it sounded terrible (not that there's anything wrong with a Baerwald alignment per se). I then discovered a post online mentioning the same issue. After returning the cartridge to the Technics alignment (which didn't seem to correspond with any of my protractor alignments) it sounded fine. 

 

In short - refer to the manual and align your cartridge as per their recommendation.

 

it’s funny you mentioned this so originally I bought a Hudson hifi kit.  This is all mentioned in my original post when I first got this TT and had issues.  The kit had a protractor included.  The alignment specs were close to but not exactly that of baerwold.

 

When I referred to aligning it to Stevenson specs I actually found a protractor supplied by audiotechnica for the lp120/lp1240 and it is very close to Stevenson specs this is what I will align to this time.  
 

I appreciate your input hopefully once I use this protractor it should give me the ideal sound. In hindsight I wish I done this sooner.  But most of my LPs sound great. So it was on the backburner.  

[21stcenturyquaker]

Also, I couldn't believe the difference the Origin Live platter mat made to the Turn 5. I bought it years ago for another turntable and it seemed to make no difference. When I bought the Turn 5 I remembered I still had it so tried it out of interest not expecting much, if anything, but it gave it an easily noticeable performance gain across the board: easily worth the money. 

[Softailricho]

Update!

 

I got around to re aligning my cartridge today using the spec sheet on the AT website. Which was identical to Stevenson.
I installed my cartridge onto a different headshell. I believe a hs6 it’s known as. It had an old vm95e cartridge on it so I basically sat mine pretty much where the old one was and did me best to align both the front and sides of the cartridge with the lines on the protractor while the stylus tip was on the mark.  
Im still not 100% certain it’s perfect as my eyes are probably not the greatest. I’ve always been told it’s hard to align a cartridge and I’ve been able to do it quite easily? Maybe I underestimate myself and other people just aren’t that good. Who knows.  
If anyone lives in Sydney and would like to take a look for me I am happy to bring cold beer along. 
 

After putting the table back I decided to grab a brand new record I was dying to hear as well as 2 problematic ones that I have heard before.  The soundstage is noticeably different and a large improvement on distortion on those particular records.  I am yet to test that particular audiophile record however some of the distortion I was complaining about may be amplifier related.  A long story to type. But if your interested in knowing I’ll make the effort to type it. 
 

So onto phase 2 I’ve decided (or my wallet has decided) I will add my zen phono to the mix. I actually have 2 sets of rcas that came with my table.  Still shonky however as mentioned one thing at a time I’ll aim for a weeks worth of listening to get used to the sounds with different records and genres. Before making changes so I can see for myself where I gained the most improvement.  
 

the next change I think may be the cables. (I have a hum issue that may be related to the dodgy phono rca. 
The speaker cables I’ve used are actually stinger car audio 12 or 10 awg ofc that I pulled out of my sss pulsar back in 2008 and has sat in my shed. 
I would like to get a new set of rcas for the TT and phono stage. As well as speaker wires.  (My RCAs for the cd player are high end I would rather not use these). As much as I’d love to get some sonic art cables. They look amazing they are unfortunately a little out of my budget for now.  I think once I’m ready for a new amp would be the time to spend more. 
what would an affordable replacement be for the meantime. I hear mixed reviews on concord. I have also seen a set of project phono cables sub $100 would this be a wise investment for now? 
 

 

would love to hear some cable input.  Honestly I would have a budget of around $1-200 for cables requiring

2 pair of speaker cable 

1 set of RCAs with a ground wire 

1 set of RCAs without ground. 

 

 

[Softailricho]

After listening to the vinyl thru the IFI for a couple of weeks now going back thru albums I’d say the bass is more refined but not as loud. Certain tracks the bass good other tracks it’s definitely not as loud.   
 

I do not have a subwoofer I had the plans for one but I didn’t think it was necessary. The floor standers give me enough. The Denon has never punched out much bass from the day I got it. 
 

one complaint of volume deviation in the vinyl playback is gone so I would say the phono stage was the culprit.  
the Denon is definitely getting tired and rather than spending money on it I think it’s time for an upgrade. 
 

previously I mentioned I had received a marantz sr7005 which was not working.  I got it working as of tonight.  I have 2 options.  Leave it in the shed as an outdoor stereo.  Or bring it inside to replace the Denon. 
 

any opinions on this receiver? If it’s not considered a reasonable upgrade I will just look for something else.  In which case I am open to suggestions 

I doubt my Denon is pushing the original 110w per channel. However I was thinking around the 100w per channel.  I would also prefer not to have an avr as this is purely audio only. 

[wen]

bring the Marantz in to replace the Denon, have a listen for a while, get the feel of the sound, then decide about an upgrade. Always good to hear different gear in you system, helps you understand what you are seeking in the way of sound preferences. I have suggested previously, read some reviews of gear you may like, look at the music used to review, borrow or buy and see how it sounds on your system, this will educate your ear to pick differences, evaluate carefully, the differences are not always better, just different. 

[Softailricho]

4 hours ago, wen said:

bring the Marantz in to replace the Denon, have a listen for a while, get the feel of the sound, then decide about an upgrade. Always good to hear different gear in you system, helps you understand what you are seeking in the way of sound preferences. I have suggested previously, read some reviews of gear you may like, look at the music used to review, borrow or buy and see how it sounds on your system, this will educate your ear to pick differences, evaluate carefully, the differences are not always better, just different. 

I agree.  While the IFI zen phono received high praise and its deserving of that. It’s a give and take trade off.  Loss of bass in the low end.  However mids hit harder.  Overall clarity is a massive improvement.  At first I was not so impressed. However after listening to a few different genres I see more pros than cons.   In the end a subwoofer would fix the problem and that’s probably how it should have been done in the first place.  So I can live with that. 
 

 

there’s no harm in trying the marantz. Just the task of having to swap the receiver. If I don’t like it I can always switch back to the Denon until I find a suitable replacement. 

[Softailricho]

Ended up bringing the marantz inside. 
first impressions, very underwhelming. It gets loud. And it’s a stereo.  That’s all I can say, it’s a loud stereo.  The Denon was better than this. Flicking through settings I can get it sounding pretty ok on cd.