SoundAir Posted December 19, 2024 Posted December 19, 2024 Hi there, I have an Oppo103AU that I used mainly for Criterion BluRays, CDs and the odd SACD or DVD-audio listening on a rainy day.... I have been seeing on YouTube videos (eh CheapAudio Man) that you can buy a cheap SMSL or Douk DAC and make a dreary CD player sound like an overpriced $10000 CD player than only the Sultan of Brunei can afford... ANYWAY, I was wonder if anyone can recommend a cheap DAC that I could plug into my Oppo to 'Dzoojsh' up the Oppo CD transport with. I would prefably like Optical or Coax out of the Oppo into the DAC. Essentially the aim is to make CD's sound better, the SACD and DVD-audio already do it via HDMI. One addendum to this is I have the Stereo out of the Oppo going directly into a PrimaLuna tube amp which acts as my L/R 'preamp'. It works two ways, with HDMI into a surround AV with 'home theatre' passthrough for the left right channel for BluRay/DvD-audio and SACD but the Oppo was so effing brilliant that I have the analog stereo audio on it go directly in the CD channel of my Prima Luna! So ultimate I am trying to improve the CD audio component on the Oppo103. thanks!
Benje Posted December 19, 2024 Posted December 19, 2024 SoundAir so, you are using the AV surround to convert the HDMI signal from digital to analogue, and you have been using the Oppo 103 DAC to convert the CD stereo from digital to analogue. Have you compared the AV surround's DAC for stereo vs the OPPO 103 DAC, ie by passing the CD player to the AV surround also via HDMI. I presume you are feeding the tube amp from a stereo pair of analogue out on the AV surround, Benje
wasabijim Posted December 19, 2024 Posted December 19, 2024 is cheap man referring to traditional single purpose CDPs or multi-format disk spinners? my understanding is a purpose built CDP has a design and build edge over a multi-format spinner when just considering CD playback, even if the BRP has more computing grunt and newer technologies. the better CDP examples have overbuilt mechanics, audio-optimised and simpler circuits and parts, slicker input & response times, some additional chassis dampening or vibration control, and this isn't even talking about the DAC that has just a 2 channel single file-type job. But this could just be marketing spin... and the Oppo may share similar features and have these advantages covered I think the transport idea is that even a basic CDP will at least spin and read the disk well (it's a mature tech) and then you can by-pass it's likely aged or basic DAC for something new and whizz bang! I guess it could equally or somewhat apply to BRPs, more so the bottom end of the price range. See if you can tell the difference between stereo via the A/V or direct from the Oppo. Account for any volume variations. if the difference if small or marginal verse very noticeable, that might help you decide. I'd also suggest considering a purpose CDP vs a stand alone DAC if you're gonna put $$ down. Particularly if it's only something for spinning CDs.
SoundAir Posted December 19, 2024 Author Posted December 19, 2024 2 hours ago, Benje said: SoundAir so, you are using the AV surround to convert the HDMI signal from digital to analogue, and you have been using the Oppo 103 DAC to convert the CD stereo from digital to analogue. Have you compared the AV surround's DAC for stereo vs the OPPO 103 DAC, ie by passing the CD player to the AV surround also via HDMI. I presume you are feeding the tube amp from a stereo pair of analogue out on the AV surround, Benje Correct the Tube amp is getting Fed via the L/R RCA OUTS on the AV amp, but I also have the RCA outs on the OPPO going into the 'CD' channel on the Tube amp.. I have compared the two, the Oppo direct sounds better, the Amp is a 10 year old Yamaha. I just wanna squeeze a bit more HiDef goodness, processing outta the Oppo, if possible! 1
Benje Posted December 19, 2024 Posted December 19, 2024 Okay, the Yamaha won't cut the mustard. Good to know. I know nothing about DAC's, let alone SMSL or Douk DACs. Make sure that the DAC you buy has a coax and/or optical input. I see that SMSL has a network player/DAC with coax and optical output, but not an input. Bot sure what models cheap audioman is referencing here. That model/price point might also indicate a likely budget for you to seek other SNA'er recommendations.
SoundAir Posted December 19, 2024 Author Posted December 19, 2024 17 minutes ago, Benje said: Okay, the Yamaha won't cut the mustard. Good to know. I know nothing about DAC's, let alone SMSL or Douk DACs. Make sure that the DAC you buy has a coax and/or optical input. I see that SMSL has a network player/DAC with coax and optical output, but not an input. Bot sure what models cheap audioman is referencing here. That model/price point might also indicate a likely budget for you to seek other SNA'er recommendations. there is the Topping: https://www.amazon.com.au/Topping-1×AK4493S-768kHz-Output-Decoder/dp/B0C9L8N9TV?c=ts&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.0DjaF-7AN-eYmBe4JL6hJaCst_gH90bBSUGlg2stsVVT0JcAMEXYm85JkY1qWPiWaQHKJ9HXK7TGYqthQOyekYhYCRTKQgpSDcuNg_IEzj_AQdoJiCC2zdUbuhvLkQfzd8RCZWyGPLrnPY-ZOtjn5kdOWO37uYw5aNLBXKM6PyHl9hAP6Mqw89bkhkws3W3TzkBPveW-oNdU2x1nc2LBpqkXxODAUrtk28M4DwzjVK_0fhFww9gFNJPa5KFkUncRPgXU7txpyY-zQgipNpqZmObjTcImgUofj80o64XZfR1S2-1zgOpv97R8DqOEPEYWZkgnfIMRPN75eWj8bQmWHdxeEJyN896p2pMzpv6F8Yo.fNrWqMfNwnhU9EtpG7MceIHsy-nk7kq7H4hG4l_3V8M&dib_tag=se&keywords=Hi-Fi+DA+Converters&qid=1734584147&s=electronics&sr=1-19&ts_id=4885203051 or this SMSL : https://www.amazon.com.au/PS200-Digital-Converter-ES9039Q2M-Bluetooth/dp/B0D8XCY2FD?c=ts&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.0DjaF-7AN-eYmBe4JL6hJaCst_gH90bBSUGlg2stsVVT0JcAMEXYm85JkY1qWPiWaQHKJ9HXK7TGYqthQOyekYhYCRTKQgpSDcuNg_IEzj_AQdoJiCC2zdUbuhvLkQfzd8RCZWyGPLrnPY-ZOtjn5kdOWO37uYw5aNLBXKM6PyHl9hAP6Mqw89bkhkws3W3TzkBPveW-oNdU2x1nc2LBpqkXxODAUrtk28M4DwzjVK_0fhFww9gFNJPa5KFkUncRPgXU7txpyY-zQgipNpqZmObjTcImgUofj80o64XZfR1S2-1zgOpv97R8DqOEPEYWZkgnfIMRPN75eWj8bQmWHdxeEJyN896p2pMzpv6F8Yo.fNrWqMfNwnhU9EtpG7MceIHsy-nk7kq7H4hG4l_3V8M&dib_tag=se&keywords=Hi-Fi+DA+Converters&qid=1734584147&s=electronics&sr=1-25&ts_id=4885203051
muon* Posted December 19, 2024 Posted December 19, 2024 (edited) 6 hours ago, SoundAir said: (eh CheapAudio Man) that you can buy a cheap SMSL or Douk DAC and make a dreary CD player sound like an overpriced $10000 CD player than only the Sultan of Brunei can afford This is why I don't watch vids from him. Edit: in my experience different players used as transports will have different performance (sound), Due to different mechanisms and supporting electronics incuding the SPDIF output. I'd suggest you audition DACs and find something you like the sound of, most if not all will have RCA coax inputs. Edited December 19, 2024 by muon* 2
Guest Posted December 19, 2024 Posted December 19, 2024 (edited) I still own the 103AU, now set aside only for SACD rips. Sorry to say, but the 103 was never good enough as a CD player, losing to an entry level NAD CD player a few years older than the new 103. Both feeding RCA to a stereo setup. It had a so, so DAC and a so, so transport. Being video capable, the 103 was supposed to have a better laser, but ??? If you are serious about getting better SQ from CDs, get a used high end CD player, often a bargain in the Classifieds. Edited December 19, 2024 by Snoopy8 Typo
Dolphy Posted December 19, 2024 Posted December 19, 2024 The Marantz CD6007 is on sale now $800, down from $1000, I bought one last week and I'm loving it. 2
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted December 19, 2024 Posted December 19, 2024 16 hours ago, SoundAir said: there is the Topping: https://www.amazon.com.au/Topping-1×AK4493S-768kHz-Output-Decoder/dp/B0C9L8N9TV?c=ts&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.0DjaF-7AN-eYmBe4JL6hJaCst_gH90bBSUGlg2stsVVT0JcAMEXYm85JkY1qWPiWaQHKJ9HXK7TGYqthQOyekYhYCRTKQgpSDcuNg_IEzj_AQdoJiCC2zdUbuhvLkQfzd8RCZWyGPLrnPY-ZOtjn5kdOWO37uYw5aNLBXKM6PyHl9hAP6Mqw89bkhkws3W3TzkBPveW-oNdU2x1nc2LBpqkXxODAUrtk28M4DwzjVK_0fhFww9gFNJPa5KFkUncRPgXU7txpyY-zQgipNpqZmObjTcImgUofj80o64XZfR1S2-1zgOpv97R8DqOEPEYWZkgnfIMRPN75eWj8bQmWHdxeEJyN896p2pMzpv6F8Yo.fNrWqMfNwnhU9EtpG7MceIHsy-nk7kq7H4hG4l_3V8M&dib_tag=se&keywords=Hi-Fi+DA+Converters&qid=1734584147&s=electronics&sr=1-19&ts_id=4885203051 or this SMSL : https://www.amazon.com.au/PS200-Digital-Converter-ES9039Q2M-Bluetooth/dp/B0D8XCY2FD?c=ts&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.0DjaF-7AN-eYmBe4JL6hJaCst_gH90bBSUGlg2stsVVT0JcAMEXYm85JkY1qWPiWaQHKJ9HXK7TGYqthQOyekYhYCRTKQgpSDcuNg_IEzj_AQdoJiCC2zdUbuhvLkQfzd8RCZWyGPLrnPY-ZOtjn5kdOWO37uYw5aNLBXKM6PyHl9hAP6Mqw89bkhkws3W3TzkBPveW-oNdU2x1nc2LBpqkXxODAUrtk28M4DwzjVK_0fhFww9gFNJPa5KFkUncRPgXU7txpyY-zQgipNpqZmObjTcImgUofj80o64XZfR1S2-1zgOpv97R8DqOEPEYWZkgnfIMRPN75eWj8bQmWHdxeEJyN896p2pMzpv6F8Yo.fNrWqMfNwnhU9EtpG7MceIHsy-nk7kq7H4hG4l_3V8M&dib_tag=se&keywords=Hi-Fi+DA+Converters&qid=1734584147&s=electronics&sr=1-25&ts_id=4885203051 For under $200 why not kill your curiosity, you’ll either hear no difference and sell it, or hear a difference and keep it. If the former, you will then know that heading down the dedicated cd player route like others have suggested is the logical next step.
muon* Posted December 20, 2024 Posted December 20, 2024 (edited) This would sound nice. Edited December 21, 2024 by muon* 1
SonicArt Posted December 21, 2024 Posted December 21, 2024 OP, dont fall into the trap of a $200 anything turning your Oppo into a 10k CD system killer, its just not going to happen. Honestly I wouldn't waste my money dipping my toes into the water, if you have a decent CD collection then you owe it to yourself to get a decent CD playback setup. My first CD player was a technics, around 1984 from memory, wish I still had it purely for nostalgia and to study its build... I have been using separate transports and dacs since the early 90's, I have had a few one box players but not many, I embraced CD playback seriously (but still a vinyl head) and have never looked back. I would love to list all the dacs I have had over the years, but I likely wont remember all of them! Then there are the dacs I have had in the workshop owned by customers, all of which I listen to which just adds to the list. IMHO you cannot go past a quality dac and a decent transport. Yes you will invest a few $$ into this, but its worth it in the long run even if you do it piece by piece. As most people have something that spins the disc already, and likely has a digital out, the sensible approach is to get a quality dac, without spruiking the dac I have currently listed too much , it is a pretty high end piece of kit at a very reasonable price. Its old school goodness, running the venerable AD1862 chips in non oversampling mode, R2R ladder design and with analogue filters thrown in. It has that big warm analogue sound that audiophiles search for, and it keeps the detail and has a pretty thunderous bass. Players like the Marantz 6007 are nice, and certainly the AK4490 version is a great machine for the price, (there was some controversy about this machine around 2022 with buyers finding ESS chips inside not AK4490, personally I do NOT enjoy listening to ESS chips) does it compete with a hi quality boutique manufactured product like the Gieseler? unlikely. Once you find a quality dac, you can then think about transports, there are a myriad of very good ones available that are affordable, the Audiolab 6000 comes up quite regularly used, and is a really decent sounding unit. I have supplied a few to old customers wanting an affordable unit (who had more expensive gear that died and was not worth fixing), the response was always positive on the 6000. The higher models are even better and also come up for sale on occasion. There really is too much to mention when it comes to dacs/transports, keeping an eye on the classifieds is the way to go, dont go cheap, you already have a Prima Luna, its not cheap, so you obviously appreciate your gear and sound.
Astrolug Posted December 22, 2024 Posted December 22, 2024 With Oppo 103, you have the opportunity to send to an outboard DAC via I2S. I've done this, sending from 103's HDMI output to an audio extractor and onto SMSL VMV D1se. Any DAC that can receive I2S will do. Just have to buy an audio extractor, which is not expensive. There are significant audio benefits. This explains more about it: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sacd-playing-to-an-external-dac-dsd-via-i2s-hdmi-input.20115/
SoundAir Posted December 22, 2024 Author Posted December 22, 2024 (edited) 23 hours ago, SonicArt said: OP, dont fall into the trap of a $200 anything turning your Oppo into a 10k CD system killer, its just not going to happen. Honestly I wouldn't waste my money dipping my toes into the water, if you have a decent CD collection then you owe it to yourself to get a decent CD playback setup. My first CD player was a technics, around 1984 from memory, wish I still had it purely for nostalgia and to study its build... I have been using separate transports and dacs since the early 90's, I have had a few one box players but not many, I embraced CD playback seriously (but still a vinyl head) and have never looked back. I would love to list all the dacs I have had over the years, but I likely wont remember all of them! Then there are the dacs I have had in the workshop owned by customers, all of which I listen to which just adds to the list. IMHO you cannot go past a quality dac and a decent transport. Yes you will invest a few $$ into this, but its worth it in the long run even if you do it piece by piece. As most people have something that spins the disc already, and likely has a digital out, the sensible approach is to get a quality dac, without spruiking the dac I have currently listed too much , it is a pretty high end piece of kit at a very reasonable price. Its old school goodness, running the venerable AD1862 chips in non oversampling mode, R2R ladder design and with analogue filters thrown in. It has that big warm analogue sound that audiophiles search for, and it keeps the detail and has a pretty thunderous bass. Players like the Marantz 6007 are nice, and certainly the AK4490 version is a great machine for the price, (there was some controversy about this machine around 2022 with buyers finding ESS chips inside not AK4490, personally I do NOT enjoy listening to ESS chips) does it compete with a hi quality boutique manufactured product like the Gieseler? unlikely. Once you find a quality dac, you can then think about transports, there are a myriad of very good ones available that are affordable, the Audiolab 6000 comes up quite regularly used, and is a really decent sounding unit. I have supplied a few to old customers wanting an affordable unit (who had more expensive gear that died and was not worth fixing), the response was always positive on the 6000. The higher models are even better and also come up for sale on occasion. There really is too much to mention when it comes to dacs/transports, keeping an eye on the classifieds is the way to go, dont go cheap, you already have a Prima Luna, its not cheap, so you obviously appreciate your gear and sound. I think you may have convinced me here, and saved me maybe $2K in upgrading to a Magnetar 'all-rounder'! I was actually going to buy one from Selby but the guy flat up told me that I'm not gonna get ANY region free operation to play my Criterion BluRays with the Reavon OR Magnetar players! Edited December 22, 2024 by SoundAir 1
Guest Posted December 23, 2024 Posted December 23, 2024 1 hour ago, SoundAir said: I think you may have convinced me here, and saved me maybe $2K in upgrading to a Magnetar 'all-rounder'! I was actually going to buy one from Selby but the guy flat up told me that I'm not gonna get ANY region free operation to play my Criterion BluRays with the Reavon OR Magnetar players! If you want region free players, suggest the Panasonic UB820 or the best sound UB9000. https://www.gattiweb.com/shop/multi-region-players/2
Astrolug Posted December 23, 2024 Posted December 23, 2024 2 hours ago, SoundAir said: I think you may have convinced me here, and saved me maybe $2K in upgrading to a Magnetar 'all-rounder'! I was actually going to buy one from Selby but the guy flat up told me that I'm not gonna get ANY region free operation to play my Criterion BluRays with the Reavon OR Magnetar players! It might need a bit of experimentation with the set-up, but in the end I had no difficulties. Hoping it works for you. Good luck! 1
SoundAir Posted December 25, 2024 Author Posted December 25, 2024 On 23/12/2024 at 11:34 AM, Snoopy8 said: If you want region free players, suggest the Panasonic UB820 or the best sound UB9000. https://www.gattiweb.com/shop/multi-region-players/2 cheers, would be great if they played dvd-audio and sacd!
Guest Posted December 25, 2024 Posted December 25, 2024 7 minutes ago, SoundAir said: cheers, would be great if they played dvd-audio and sacd! If SACD is the main requirement, then Magnetar. My SACDs are all ripped with the Oppo 103 and I have the UB9000
SoundAir Posted December 25, 2024 Author Posted December 25, 2024 On 23/12/2024 at 12:30 PM, Astrolug said: It might need a bit of experimentation with the set-up, but in the end I had no difficulties. Hoping it works for you. Good luck! Magneta or Reavon? How? I couldn't find anything on the Internet? And the Firmware is banned is Australia like everything else!
dags Posted December 29, 2024 Posted December 29, 2024 On 22/12/2024 at 5:27 PM, Astrolug said: With Oppo 103, you have the opportunity to send to an outboard DAC via I2S. I've done this, sending from 103's HDMI output to an audio extractor and onto SMSL VMV D1se. Any DAC that can receive I2S will do I've got an Oppo BDP103 & have just ordered the HDMI extractor as mentioned earlier, my question is how do I know if the I2S pins are compatible with my DAC ?
Astrolug Posted December 29, 2024 Posted December 29, 2024 On 26/12/2024 at 9:13 AM, SoundAir said: Magneta or Reavon? How? I couldn't find anything on the Internet? And the Firmware is banned is Australia like everything else! Region won't matter if you are using it as a CD transport. Others may hopefully have more advice what to do if playing DVDs etc.
Astrolug Posted December 29, 2024 Posted December 29, 2024 16 minutes ago, dags said: I've got an Oppo BDP103 & have just ordered the HDMI extractor as mentioned earlier, my question is how do I know if the I2S pins are compatible with my DAC ? It depends on what your DAC can recognise with I2S input. Unfortunately, there is no standard interface for I2S, but typically the pin-out over HDMI is either 'normal' or reversed'. They are the options on my SMSL VMV D1se2, and one of them worked fine (I forget which). It depends on what your audio extractor sends out and what your DAC can accept for I2S input. See what pin-out options there are and what works. I imagine any newer I2S-enabled DACs will be straightforward.
dags Posted December 29, 2024 Posted December 29, 2024 32 minutes ago, Astrolug said: what your DAC can accept for I2S input thanx. Currently I have a Schiit Modi 3 but I will be replacing that soon, just haven't decided with what yet. I googled the D1SE & it looks pretty good & has the connections I require so i'll probably go with one of those
Astrolug Posted December 29, 2024 Posted December 29, 2024 In that case, my advice would be to get SMSL VMV D1se2, rather than the original version D1se, which can be problematic with I2S. I have both, and that was one of the main differences. Sonically it is marginally better as well, and Bluetooth improved. Comparison: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/vmv-d1se2-stereo-dac-review.45052/page-10 Another interesting new design is Topping D90 III https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90-iii-sabre-dac-review.51493/ 1
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