Nucleus One or NUC

[Davey Willo]

Hi guys

 

I want a dedicated server for my Roon driven system. A while ago the obvious choice for the cost conscious would have been a NUC or if you were so inclined, a MAC Mini, however with the latest offering from Roon, the 'Nucleus One' being made so affordable, I am now not sure on which way to go, I'm not an Apply guy so not thinking of the MAC Mini

 

I'm hoping that I could get some collective thoughts on the pro's and con's of NUC's v  the Nucleus One seeing as the cost of either are so much closer these days.

 

For info, I don't expect to have multiple zones playing different music as there is only me in the house, I don't expect to be using the DSP functionality (I'm not even sure what it's for if I'm honest) my music library isn't massive and I'll likely be using Tidal as much as my own ripped albums on Roon so powerful chipsets are not required. I'm simply looking for something that I can connect and forget.

 

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

Cheers

Dave

[MattyW]

I’ve had extremely good results with an overspec’d Ryzen 7730u based Topton FU02 tables mini PC. 32GB RAM, 500GB Crucial NVME SSD for ROCK + database, 4TB SATA SSD or media. I removed the Wi-Fi card and disabled power to that PCI-E slot. I’ve a linear power supply to power it.

 

I’ve successfully run upsampling to DSD512 to 2x different zones, DSD64 to another and native content to another simultaneously all with different content with minimal delay. Basically as high as the gear in each system will run. I didn’t hear any audible benefits doing this so turned it off though it was still an interesting test nonetheless. It’s an incredible value.

 

What I didn’t expect is that it brought an audible sonic improvement be running RoonOnNas from my Synology DS1621+. Nothing to do with oversampling, it just unexpectedly brought a blacker background which is unexpected given I keep it remote to my sound system. 
 

It was easy to get running. Reset BIOS to defaults then boot the USB. Basically a standard ROCK install. Works incredibly well.

 

Worth looking into if you’re after a well performing, reliable and great value ROCK.  

Edited December 25, 2024 by MattyW

[Snoopy8]

12 hours ago, Davey Willo said:

I'm simply looking for something that I can connect and forget.

You have answered your own question:  Nucleous One. 

[Superfuzzbigmuff]

1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

You have answered your own question:  Nucleous One. 

Agreed, looks like they're about $1,000 delivered in Aus ATM (unless you want a linear power supply, which is probably not worth it in your situation). You'll still need to add storage, be it installing an internal hard drive into the Nucleus or connecting to a NAS if you already have one of those. I've had the Nucleus Plus for several years and it is very much a plug and play option. Looks like @MattyW has a good set up, but I suspect he's a bit more computer literate than the average punter or spuds like me.

[MattyW]

3 hours ago, Superfuzzbigmuff said:

Agreed, looks like they're about $1,000 delivered in Aus ATM (unless you want a linear power supply, which is probably not worth it in your situation). You'll still need to add storage, be it installing an internal hard drive into the Nucleus or connecting to a NAS if you already have one of those. I've had the Nucleus Plus for several years and it is very much a plug and play option. Looks like @MattyW has a good set up, but I suspect he's a bit more computer literate than the average punter or spuds like me.

Works out around the $1k mark also and only a little less powerful than Nucleus Titan.

 

In terms of technical complexity it's on par with buying a NUC and loading ROCK, just with better overall results. 

 

Fanless minipc - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004825345981.html?

ROCK SSD: https://www.umart.com.au/product/crucial-p3-500gb-ct500p3ssd8-pcie-gen3-m-2-2280-nvme-ssd-64928

4TB SSD for media: https://www.umart.com.au/product/crucial-bx500-4tb-2-5in-3d-nand-sata-iii-ssd-ct4000bx500ssd1-80372

19vdc Linear power supply - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004941690936.html?

 

It must be noted that the linear power supply isn't strictly necessary unless as fussy as I am. Ditto the specs I went with which are once more somewhat overkill though I believe that's probably the reason for the sonic uplift. Basically underutilized hardware rarely runs at much over about 10% capability so just idles along, which leads to less electrical noise.

 

Once setup you literally forget it's there. Mine lives in the garage along with NBN box, firewall/router, network switch, NAS and main wireless mesh access point. The Being fanless it'll give more reliable longer term reliability though if you're plugging your gear into it via a USB port then I guess silence is golden..... The linear power supply is certainly of larger benefit if using in that manner also.

Edited December 26, 2024 by MattyW

[Davey Willo]

Thanks for the input gents.

 

Building a NUC is not a concern for me as I have built every desktop/gaming PC that I've ever owned. My negative thoughts on NUCs is that they bring unwanted features that require removal or disabling to get a nice clean Roon ready server, whereas the Nucleaus One is built for one purpose only and that is it's primary attraction for me. I can't see me ever changing my source now, streaming is the future as far as I'm concerned, my whole system is now set up for it and I can't see myself changing from the Roon platform as I love it, so again, that points me at a 'Nuc One'

 

However! the Nucleus One has to be hardwired into the network whereas a NUC 'could' if one wanted to, plug it in somewhere out of sight, even a different room and connect it via WIFI (Or is that frowned upon) I'd prefer, if possible, to keep my music rack as clean and as organised as possible and so the thought of placing the server somewhere out of the way appeals to my "Rack Arrangment/Cable Management" OCD and that makes me think a NUC may be more suitable if I can place it anywhere in the house.

 

Another option which may be worth considering, is to add another router creating a mesh and then having that router plus whatever server I choose someplace out of the way and seperate from my equipment rack and the usual resulting web of cables

 

Do you guys who stream primarily always connect hard wired between your network and your streamer? or is WIFI an acceptable use case?

 

I'm currently using my laptop as a Roon Core and so always using wifi at this moment, which I have to say, so far sounds top notch, however I'm wondering if adding a dedicated silent server and hardwiring it will make any SQ improvements. I ask as I'm happy to invest in whatever gives me the best results and if that means another router then I'm good with that.

 

 

[MattyW]

A ROCK generally only works particularly well over Wi-Fi if it’s contacted directly to your DAC, or if it’s hardwired into the location of your NBN connection and streams to end points over wifi.

 

 If the Roon server software accesses the internet over wi-fi and streams to your end points over wi-fi from experience you’re setting yourself up for failure. Expect stuttering, start/stop type issues and introduction of a certain harshness due to jitter.

 

Of course there are always exceptions to the rule though why increase the risk of things not working well?

Edited December 26, 2024 by MattyW

[Gav67]

Hi, I have had a Roon Nucleus (previous model) for a few years now.  Previously ran Roon on a MacMini (after Audirvana) and used a PC based system for a while.  Went for the dedicated Roon hardware solution in the end as its set and forget.  Only software updates I have to consider are from Roon.  There updates cover any changes required to the Nucleus and iPad at the same time. 30 seconds late and I'm listening to music.   

I'm an electrical engineer by trade so I don't have any issues with administering Mac or Windows updates etc or building a dedicated ROCK.  But truthfully, when I want to listen to music I just want to sit down and listen.  Not be concern with any changes/updates (MAC or Windows or other). 

 

I run the Roon Nucleus with internal SSD plus Tidal & Qobuz over Ethernet connected via Qnap switch to EMM Labs NS1 server as the Endpoint.  Never had any connection issues with the Nucleus.

 

FWIW, it's made my life simpler having a dedicated Roon hardware/software solution.  

[MattyW]

Same, it just works. I wish I built a ROCK years ago.

[rowbo]

Hi all - not sure if this has been covered previously in a different thread  but I enquired with Roon regarding the Nucleus One re: whether they will be distributing the model via Busisoft and who will handle the repairs if there is an issue as it’s currently only available from Singapore and was advised; 

 

“ Busisoft is not managing the new generation of Nucleus, which means they will not be handling any RMAs that may arise if you purchase the Nucleus One. Should we engage them in future sales, we will provide an official communication regarding their involvement.…For RMA cases, repairs will be handled at our repair centers in Taiwan or Hong Kong”

 

I also had other queries relating to the markup using $SGD and the freight fee which aren’t really relevant to this thread - all I can say (and at this time I haven’t received a reply) I don’t know who would cover the cost of sending a unit to HK or Taiwan - and I provided my opinion that to buy the Titan model (in $SGD) and have no local support is disappointing.

If any further info is provided I will post it here. 
I have a NUC and it’s staying on the shelf as I’m not required to send it overseas to get it fixed

[Davey Willo]

On 20/01/2025 at 5:14 PM, rowbo said:

I have a NUC and it’s staying on the shelf as I’m not required to send it overseas to get it fixed

This line made me decide that the NUC route is the way to go. I have been on the fence waiting for reviews of the Nucleus One but I think I'm going bite the bullet and build a server.

 

My first problem is figuring which NUC to buy, when I search "NUC" on PLE Computers website there is loads of them, I'm lost

 

Does anyone know if this will do, it's slimline, would I be better going for the bigger one for maybe better cooling?

Intel/ASUS NUC 12 Pro Wall Street Canyon i5 Slim Barebones Mini PC | PLE Computers

Hmmmm for some reason I can't paste the URL, it converts to the above text.

 

Thanks for any help or input

Dave

 

 

[MattyW]

13 hours ago, Davey Willo said:

This line made me decide that the NUC route is the way to go. I have been on the fence waiting for reviews of the Nucleus One but I think I'm going bite the bullet and build a server.

 

My first problem is figuring which NUC to buy, when I search "NUC" on PLE Computers website there is loads of them, I'm lost

 

Does anyone know if this will do, it's slimline, would I be better going for the bigger one for maybe better cooling?

Intel/ASUS NUC 12 Pro Wall Street Canyon i5 Slim Barebones Mini PC | PLE Computers

Hmmmm for some reason I can't paste the URL, it converts to the above text.

 

Thanks for any help or input

Dave

 

 

 

Hey Dave, ROCK works on darned near anything seamlessly. Grab one of these configured with 16gb RAM, rip out the Chinese SSD and install a 128GB Crucial NVME SSD for ROCK and 2TB Crucual NVME SSD for storage and you're golden. If you want to clean things up electrically remove the Wi-Fi card and power off a linear power supply. Suggest the 7540U due to its lower heat and power draw. The fan doesn't spin up unless the CPU hits 45 degrees celsius which is to say it just never spins up making it effectively fanless.

 

PC - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008097097537.html?

LPS - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007338346799.html?

 

Unbelievable performance, silent and excellent in terms of electrical noise with the Wi-Fi card removed. It’s really very easy as it's just 4 screws to remove the bottom panel to access everything. The whole case is one big heatsink with the fan just for insurance should it get too hot.

 

I run one of these for opnSense, and use the older and less powerful FU02 for my Roon ROCK. You really can't beat these little industrial PC's for Roon or other purposes such as routing/firewall etc.

 

 Given no local support for Nucleus Titan I see no real value in it, and if you’ve the ability to set up ROCK then online “support” is of negligible value anyway. Everything you could ever need is on forums or can be found on ChatGPT. Just focus on the best performing silent platform for your money. For me that’s a Topton FU02 or FU03 with linear power supply.

Edited January 22 by MattyW

[PKay]

18 hours ago, MattyW said:

 

Hey Dave, ROCK works on darned near anything seamlessly. Grab one of these configured with 16gb RAM, rip out the Chinese SSD and install a 128GB Crucial NVME SSD for ROCK and 2TB Crucual NVME SSD for storage and you're golden. If you want to clean things up electrically remove the Wi-Fi card and power off a linear power supply. Suggest the 7540U due to its lower heat and power draw. The fan doesn't spin up unless the CPU hits 45 degrees celsius which is to say it just never spins up making it effectively fanless.

 

PC - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008097097537.html?

LPS - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007338346799.html?

 

Unbelievable performance, silent and excellent in terms of electrical noise with the Wi-Fi card removed. It’s really very easy as it's just 4 screws to remove the bottom panel to access everything. The whole case is one big heatsink with the fan just for insurance should it get too hot.

 

I run one of these for opnSense, and use the older and less powerful FU02 for my Roon ROCK. You really can't beat these little industrial PC's for Roon or other purposes such as routing/firewall etc.

 

 Given no local support for Nucleus Titan I see no real value in it, and if you’ve the ability to set up ROCK then online “support” is of negligible value anyway. Everything you could ever need is on forums or can be found on ChatGPT. Just focus on the best performing silent platform for your money. For me that’s a Topton FU02 or FU03 with linear power supply.

Great idea and reference. Does the NUC work with W11?

[MattyW]

On 22/1/2025 at 3:51 PM, PKay said:

Great idea and reference. Does the NUC work with W11?

 

Certainly does..... And opnSense, and Roon ROCK. That's all I've used them for so can't advise regarding anything else. Absolutely incredible value these Topton units be it the FU02 or FU03. The FU03 is better in pretty much every way though having far higher IPC. It's a later generation of Ryzen with higher clock rates. Possibly better performing than an actual Nucleus Titan, and most certainly less expensive. Really the only thing the new Nucelus' do is better aesthetics though the Topton units are not bad on that front.  I've certainly seen worse.

Edited January 23 by MattyW

[Hydrology]

My Roon server journey is/was:-

 

Tricked out Mac Mini

Roon Nucleus (v1)

Innuos Zen MK3 (current)

 

Each iteration was a notable step up from the previous in performance and sound quality

[PKay]

I have a Matrix Spfif X3 so I’m leaning towards a NUC when my current setup dies. MattyW has a low cost solution that should work really well. 

[Neo]

I’m considering Roon nucleus, to move away from the Naim ndx and use nucleus as a source. Curious if there will be a sound quality penalty, negative one with that move. 
Neo

[PKay]

9 minutes ago, Neo said:

I’m considering Roon nucleus, to move away from the Naim ndx and use nucleus as a source. Curious if there will be a sound quality penalty, negative one with that move. 
Neo

See if you can get a good psu from Clay (it won't be a lot) and if you can get the Matrix Spdif converter as a trial you should be pleasantly surprised.

[Neo]

So keep the ndx?

[Neo]

I have two excellent Dacs to chose from so what would ndx contribute?

Neo

[MattyW]

Topton FU02 with Roon ROCK loaded is the go. Unbeatable value.

[rowbo]

Hi all - @MattyW was very kind with his offer to help with building a NUC for me and i took delivery this week. Its a fantastic unit and a step up from my ageing/aged Dell Wyse. I went with the Ryzen 7 version and 4TB Samsung SSD and all of my problems i had were solved - the old Wyse took a good 10min before i was able actually play some music, and now i have done away with the external USB HDD.

For me, i needed a new brain for the hifi - i've used a Node, i even have a Pro-Ject Streamer (basically a dressed up Raspberry Pi) and while these units have their own library software nothing beats Roon. A2A were selling Roon Nucleus at a great price but the age of the tech inside was  concern, and then Roon were nice enough to explain they don't have a distributor here in Oz for their new suite of products (Nucleus One & Titan) and if you did proceed to purchase from Singapore and had a unit issue it would need to be sent back to HK or Taiwan - which was too risky for me considering the outlay (especially for a Titan!). And don't get me started on the fact that these models were released last year...

Plus the tech to build a NUC these days is so much cheaper than 3-5years ago. And lastly i'm not a hifi guy that will run a laptop - so hence the requirement for a NUC/brain...

Anyway along came MattyW and i am pleased as punch.

 

My only tip is have a back up plan for the time being regarding Win11 and transferring your library over a network to the internal SSD in your new NUC. There is some 'SMB' conflict between Win11 and Roon (in theory from the chatter on Roon Support this is being looked into) where you can't easily transfer your library over the network like you used to (if you look up the Roon help page about this - it pretty much says type in \\rock\data into explorer and you will find the Rock and voila drag n drop your library etc etc.

Unfortunately I was not able to do this. If you have an older PC (i even used an elderly Win8.1 laptop) - everything on this laptop is bricked but explorer still found the Rock and i could transfer the library from the USB HDD to the internal storage over the network. It was a slightly anxious 2hrs for this to finish but no file was left behind!

Of course there are other ways of doing this (Linux or whatnot) but some of us with less IT skills do wish things would just work like they used to (pre-Win11).

 

Thanks all and have fun  Now.... i'm off to listen to some music  

 

 

 

[PKay]

5 minutes ago, rowbo said:

Hi all - @MattyW was very kind with his offer to help with building a NUC for me and i took delivery this week. Its a fantastic unit and a step up from my ageing/aged Dell Wyse. I went with the Ryzen 7 version and 4TB Samsung SSD and all of my problems i had were solved - the old Wyse took a good 10min before i was able actually play some music, and now i have done away with the external USB HDD.

For me, i needed a new brain for the hifi - i've used a Node, i even have a Pro-Ject Streamer (basically a dressed up Raspberry Pi) and while these units have their own library software nothing beats Roon. A2A were selling Roon Nucleus at a great price but the age of the tech inside was  concern, and then Roon were nice enough to explain they don't have a distributor here in Oz for their new suite of products (Nucleus One & Titan) and if you did proceed to purchase from Singapore and had a unit issue it would need to be sent back to HK or Taiwan - which was too risky for me considering the outlay (especially for a Titan!). And don't get me started on the fact that these models were released last year...

Plus the tech to build a NUC these days is so much cheaper than 3-5years ago. And lastly i'm not a hifi guy that will run a laptop - so hence the requirement for a NUC/brain...

Anyway along came MattyW and i am pleased as punch.

 

My only tip is have a back up plan for the time being regarding Win11 and transferring your library over a network to the internal SSD in your new NUC. There is some 'SMB' conflict between Win11 and Roon (in theory from the chatter on Roon Support this is being looked into) where you can't easily transfer your library over the network like you used to (if you look up the Roon help page about this - it pretty much says type in \\rock\data into explorer and you will find the Rock and voila drag n drop your library etc etc.

Unfortunately I was not able to do this. If you have an older PC (i even used an elderly Win8.1 laptop) - everything on this laptop is bricked but explorer still found the Rock and i could transfer the library from the USB HDD to the internal storage over the network. It was a slightly anxious 2hrs for this to finish but no file was left behind!

Of course there are other ways of doing this (Linux or whatnot) but some of us with less IT skills do wish things would just work like they used to (pre-Win11).

 

Thanks all and have fun  Now.... i'm off to listen to some music  

 

 

 

Did you go with a linear psu? Photo would be nice as well.

Edited March 6 by PKay

[rowbo]

Hi PKay - LPS? No, not as yet. 

The unit isn’t in a ‘perfect’ spot yet but here you go

[MattyW]

It was no problem at all Rowan. Quite an easy and even enjoyable build actually though I did have some frustration when it came to getting the codecs onto the device as my Windows 11 PC's will not connect to an unsecured file share. I had previously gotten around it with various registry and group policy hacks though it seems Microsoft has patched it and none of those worked for me this time. I ended up placing the required codec on my Synology NAS and using the File Manager on the NAS itself to copy the codec to Roon ROCK. It's nuts the extent Microsoft is going these days to make our lives harder in the name of security.

 

Anyway, I truly hope Roon updates the ROCK image to have a decent yet standard username and password in the Roon ROCK image as this would avoid all this difficulty. Perversely any older Windows versions, Linux or Mac OS would have no such issues.

 

It is interesting in PM's we had that you have also experienced a sonic improvement once you set this up. I did find there was a burn in period of a few weeks before mine got to its best and thankfully it had nothing to do with actually using the ROCK though merely leaving it running 24/7 as you tend to do with these anyway. There really is no need to ever turn it off as its low power draw and will give better long term reliability if left turned on due to less thermal cycling.

 

Funnily enough after your ROCK build I ordered my 4th Topton minipc as they really are wonderful little things. Low power draw, passive cooling and I find them wonderful running Windows as a media PC as the AMD graphics drivers have some excellent profiles which significantly enhance the image quality of content played back through them. They achieve better video quality than an Apple TV or nVidia Shield for me and give the flexibility of accessing anything which can be accessed from a PC. My wife uses Aiyingshi fairly heavily for her Chinese TV shows for example. That said, my Sony Bravia does achieve better image quality for any video which is played back via a native app on it though that's of no help for Aiyingshi which is accessed via a web browser so the FU02 is the better choice for me for that also. 

Edited March 10 by MattyW