mfforever Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) Hi all ....... looking to improve sound quality of my TV sound system. Watch Netflix/Prime/Apple mainly. Have a great dedicated 2 channel music system in the dining room so I have no desire to combine TV with existing 2 channel stereo in different room. Background : - Have 2009 Marantz SR 6003 AVR - use Preouts ( R,L and C ) to veteran Arcam Alpha 10P 3 channel power amp. ( power amp now 20 years old but still pumps out 100W of very clean sound ) ....... overall the system sounds OK but I feel there is a lot more that can be done - Only listen at low to moderate volume levels - TV is late model Sony -TV is in Lounge Room so only interested in a 3.1 system with bookshelf / standmount speakers ( have some Vafs, some vintage Goodmans ..... not important to change speakers at any time) Sometimes go to 5.1 but not really important. - Strong preference for Marantz Am thinking of these 2 options ....... 1) Buy through Stereonet a preprocessor Marantz 8802A or 8805A ) and use the Pre outs for L, R and C into my Arcam Alpha 10 3 channel power amp OR 2) buy a newish AVR like DENON AVR-X3800 or Marantz SR 6014 and use Pre outs for L, R and C into Arcam Alpha 10 power amp ( of course I would listen to the AVR own power amps first to see if superior ) Would the above give noticeable improvement in sound quality ? Please be brutally honest here ...... (Perhaps even improve IMAGE quality as processor/AVr have higher upsampling rates ????? Would really appreciate some advice as AV is definitely not my area of expertise ( often it makes little difference to me when I read the AV manuals whether in English or in the other foreign languages supplied ) ............ with thanks. PS: OK ...... I know the above are not in the realms of a true Home Theatre dedicated room ....... I am only seeking 3.1 in a beautiful 1926 lounge room with some vintage gear and further Stereonet AV buys , but I already know the sound of high quality music through my high-ish end stereo system ...... I'm a music fan/fanatic so I am hoping to bring some of this to my revised TV system. Edited February 25 by mfforever Specified Marantz
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Your budget appears to be between $1000 to $2500? 1
Snoopy8 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) Suggest you listen to the Yamaha because it has a different sound to the Marantz. Personally, in side by side comparisons over the years, have picked Marantz every time over a Yamaha. You have a much better chance of improving SQ with better room correction software, especially in a shared room. Yamaha YPAO is poor. Get AVR with Dirac Live, Anthem Room Correction or update to Marantz Cinema 60 (Audyssey). Edited February 19 by Snoopy8 Typo 4
mfforever Posted February 20 Author Posted February 20 (edited) Thank you Hi-Fi Whipped and Snoopy ...... Yes, my budget would be up to $2500, which I believe , if I'm patient, could get me the Marantz preprocessor on Stereonet ( the 8802A or perhaps the 8805A ). Have used an old version of Marantz's room correction before so I would definitely apply this as well. Also, already have good quality speaker cables, power cords etc and always isolate my gear well. Doing some more research and yes Snoopy , the Marantz seems the better option here. Would stick with Audyssey room correction as would not want any additional cost with Direc. Thus the million dollar question : Would the Marantz 8805A combined with my Arcam 3 channel power amp ( R , L. and C ) give a noticeable improvement in sound quality ......... a reasonable chance of success ? I'm hoping that the newer refinements in the Marantz preprocessor would leave my existing 16 year old Marantz AVR for dead. Much appreciate the experience out there. PS : Main speakers are 1965 Goodmans Magnum K, centre is a monster VAF DC-X63cc, some smaller VAFs occasionally used for surround.,.... and to top off the vintage list, my Sub is the winner of the 1999 Scandinavian Subwoofer Award (B1.35 from Audio Pro AB, Sweden ) Edited February 20 by mfforever 1
Snoopy8 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 11 minutes ago, mfforever said: Thus the million dollar question : Would the Marantz 8805A combined with my Arcam 3 channel power amp ( R , L. and C ) give a noticeable improvement in sound quality ......... a reasonable chance of success ? More than likely... 1
Snoopy8 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 8 hours ago, mfforever said: PS : Main speakers are 1965 Goodmans Magnum K, centre is a monster VAF DC-X63cc, some smaller VAFs occasionally used for surround.,.... and to top off the vintage list, my Sub is the winner of the 1999 Scandinavian Subwoofer Award (B1.35 from Audio Pro AB, Sweden ) Ideally, the front 3 speakers should be same brand, but not possible in your setup? Have you checked whether they are timbre matched (sound the same) ? 1
mfforever Posted February 20 Author Posted February 20 Yes I would agree Snoopy that ideally they should brand match ; overall, tonally they are a pretty good match but I could see some movement in the future ( the VAF DC-X63cc centre is huge and the Goodmans are on the workbench getting a well deserved 60 year facelift ). Will evaluate speakers after the processor update yet will be a bit difficult for me as I love my vintage gear. 1
mfforever Posted February 23 Author Posted February 23 Doing more research based on replies and reading Forums here and found the following : - The Marantz preprocessors may prove too expensive and perhaps overkill for my simple needs ( but happy to see what turns up in the WANTED section of Stereonet - Later Marantz AVRs seem to have everything I need ( like SR 6014 ) and as noted in many forums that good receivers AFTER 2018 seem to be bug free and have plenty of the latest features . Recommendations gladly received ...... thanks.
mfforever Posted February 24 Author Posted February 24 (edited) Pretty well decided on DENON AVR-X3800 H........... seems to meet my purposes ........... What do you think ???? Edited February 25 by mfforever
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted February 25 Posted February 25 17 hours ago, mfforever said: Pretty well decided on DENON AVR-X3800 H........... seems to meet my purposes ........... What do you think ???? You’ve upgraded already! sure I saw 2800 earlier! 1
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted February 25 Posted February 25 Compared to the equivalent Marantz looks like a bargain, can’t go wrong by the looks.
mfforever Posted February 25 Author Posted February 25 Yes HiFi Whipped ....... a nice spot ..... I did change to the 3800 as I discovered the 2800 did not have sufficient pre-outs !
Snoopy8 Posted February 25 Posted February 25 Prefer Marantz over Denon in side by side comparisons. While they have a common foundation, some effort is put into the brand sound, with the Marantz more musical. Curious whether you have done some actual listening? Picking something just from reviews and forum posts may lead to disappointment...
mfforever Posted February 25 Author Posted February 25 So far no actual listening of these products, so it really is a bit of a gamble. Did research the Marantz Cinema series ( you recommended the Cinema 60 ) .......... and perhaps the Marantz Cinema 70s would be enough ( would use the pre outs ) so essentially using it as a AV Processor ...... plenty of the latest features on board and some very good pricing going on at the moment.
Snoopy8 Posted February 25 Posted February 25 1 hour ago, mfforever said: So far no actual listening of these products, so it really is a bit of a gamble. Did research the Marantz Cinema series ( you recommended the Cinema 60 ) .......... and perhaps the Marantz Cinema 70s would be enough ( would use the pre outs ) so essentially using it as a AV Processor ...... plenty of the latest features on board and some very good pricing going on at the moment. Strongly suggest you listen to something! Unless you have used something that I have suggested previously, it is not possible for you to judge my musical tastes compared with yours... Cinema 60 because better Audyssey version.
mfforever Posted February 26 Author Posted February 26 Totally agree that music tastes are very specific and it always is better to hear the product, but I've found over the years that even if I hear it in a shop or someone's place it can only tell me if I find it outrageously disagreeable or overpriced or something quite in your face .... sadly, it is not until you bring it home , plug in your speakers with your cables with your specific room features that you really get a feel for something ....... it can even take a couple of days. Over the years I have been very happy with my leaps of faith, but you can never know. So Snoopy I really appreciate your reference to the Marantz Cinema series as I would not have know about these very clever amps before ..... am still tossing up whether the better Audyssey version is worth an extra $550 to me in the long run...... all the best 4
Mr_Gadget Posted February 26 Posted February 26 (edited) 3 hours ago, Snoopy8 said: Why not one of these? Not a bad option, I have one myself and paid $2k several years ago. Just make sure all pre outs are working as I found with mine I had to use the XLR outs for the L and R (XLR to RCA cables). Also I find that with music it's not the best (compared to a dedicated 2 ch pre-amp) but will do the job. Edited February 26 by Mr_Gadget 1
mfforever Posted February 26 Author Posted February 26 Thank you Snoopy and Mr Gadget ....... They both look superb and would do very nicely but very pricey .... the Marantz Cinema 70 I can get brand new ( something I never do ) for $1440 ....... only 50 W a channel but can use my power amp to get 100w of very clean amplification for the F , L. and C. With these late model receivers there are so many complicated features on board that I'm beginning to like the sound of new with its warranty just in case...... ( hey, I must be getting old ! ) 1
Snoopy8 Posted February 26 Posted February 26 @betty boop is the expert on Marantz HT gear and Audyssey. Ignore the topic title because this discussion is now on Marantz. Your feedback please... 2
FreddieB Posted February 26 Posted February 26 (edited) Hi, I will add a couple unbiased thoughts from my experience, though to be clear mine is one of the above-linked ads. In a company's line pre/pro are usually a significant step up in quality for both audio and video, using better power supplies (only lower powered supply required for processing) and better components in the signal paths, just all-round better quality. Paired with a good amp they will give better sound and picture quality vs all but the top tier receivers. The only question comes down to how much improvement there has been in the past x years because the tech does trickle down the line, however there will still be significant compromise in the components generally in a lower end, receiver. Easy compare is to just look at the dac chips used. Tbh though in your system I would be looking whether you like the sound of a good 2ch vs 3ch for your typical viewing, i.e do you need the center? Many don't, because arguably you get better imaging with a better 2ch than a lesser 3ch. Since it doesn't sound like you are chasing bleeding edge HT, it may be better to upgrade to a better 2ch pre and upgrade your video source if required to get better picture quality That is unless you want to start the path to surround... then have at it with a prepro Edited February 26 by FreddieB Clarification 3
FreddieB Posted February 26 Posted February 26 Also, if looking for room correction there are some other good options for 2ch, rather than getting a HT processor/receiver. Personally, I think the prepro, might be overkill, and the receiver underwhelming, or at least not best bang for buck.
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted February 26 Posted February 26 3 hours ago, FreddieB said: Hi, I will add a couple unbiased thoughts from my experience, though to be clear mine is one of the above-linked ads. In a company's line pre/pro are usually a significant step up in quality for both audio and video, using better power supplies (only lower powered supply required for processing) and better components in the signal paths, just all-round better quality. Paired with a good amp they will give better sound and picture quality vs all but the top tier receivers. The only question comes down to how much improvement there has been in the past x years because the tech does trickle down the line, however there will still be significant compromise in the components generally in a lower end, receiver. Easy compare is to just look at the dac chips used. Tbh though in your system I would be looking whether you like the sound of a good 2ch vs 3ch for your typical viewing, i.e do you need the center? Many don't, because arguably you get better imaging with a better 2ch than a lesser 3ch. Since it doesn't sound like you are chasing bleeding edge HT, it may be better to upgrade to a better 2ch pre and upgrade your video source if required to get better picture quality That is unless you want to start the path to surround... then have at it with a prepro This is a great point of view and given the OPs current system a switch to 2.1 definitely has merit. A 2ch pre or integrated with HDMI ARC covers all the video sources via the tv, sticking with stereo would also net an audio quality upgrade. as a starting point id listen to the current marantz in 2ch and see if you can live without the centre channel, then go from there. 2
FreddieB Posted February 26 Posted February 26 I'll just add, before I get called on it my above statements with respect to pre/pros are a generalisation, there will be exceptions and price comes into effect too. What I am trying to say is there is typically a fair offset in the prepro range wrt receivers to the higher quality end.
mfforever Posted February 27 Author Posted February 27 Hi Snoopy ....... the Marantz 8805 you mentioned was my initial endpoint, but the more I read about the light-speed changes in AV pre / separates / Avr etc the more I am gun shy of spending $2500 plus on 7 year old gear ........ in the end, my main love is dedicated stereo in another room which I have spent decades researching, listening to many, many brands with both friend's gear and my own purchases ( some lasting more than 20 years , some lasting 1 week ) , tweeking my purchases with zealot isolation and cable matching. For AV, I suppose I was looking for a " one product quick fix " solution but instead it opens up so many cans of worms where experience, hard core knowledge and enthusiasm will give much better results ( and I will admit I'm not prepared to go there .......... as John Lennon said. " Life get's in the way " . And FreddieB and Hifi Whipped ............ thank you for the advice on 2 channel as an option for movies ....... sorta made my head spin a bit ........ will not be able to trial this until I finish my rebuild of my Goodman Magnums ..... boy, am I slow at cross over rebuilds !!!!! Will do this before I make the final plunge ................ but must admit at this stage the Marantz cinema 70 is looking really attractive as comes with new product warranty and is low key enough for me to understand. Will keep you all updated ...... and really appreciate the generous advice of you guys. 1
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