Asking for help im demoing phono stages

[xwfalcon]

Hi there ,

 

Some of you guys helped me  with  streamer and dac a while ago so  hoping for some input .

 

My budget will be in the 5 to 10k AUD region for a phono stage would like it to be able to use MM or MC carts .

 

At the moment i have a Rega RP6 with all the groovetracer upgrades  {which will be upgaded after phono} , a Dynavector  DV20X2 cart  {will upgrade this to } ,Dynavector P75 mk3 , Mola Mola Makua  ,Mola Mola Perca and Osborn reference book shelf speakers {upgrading to TAD ME1 later this year .

 

I have demoed a Graham Slee Accession  MC and a Gold Note PH10 with PSU i am also looking at demoing a Sutherland  Little Loco  , i was interested in Whest Audio entry level or mid level phono but  there is no Australian dealer and im a bit nervous spending this amount without a demo .

 

So if you can add anything about the Phono Stages mentioned  or any other phonos in my price range that i could look into demoing that would be much appropriated .

[evil c]

Pass Labs XP-17 Phono should be on your list. 

I have one of the much older Aleph Ono phono's, and extraordinarily musical and superb soundstage .

The XP-17 has numerous improvements since mine, and build quality and components are ultra high end for the money! 

[PKay]

49 minutes ago, xwfalcon said:

Hi there ,

 

Some of you guys helped me  with  streamer and dac a while ago so  hoping for some input .

 

My budget will be in the 5 to 10k AUD region for a phono stage would like it to be able to use MM or MC carts .

 

At the moment i have a Rega RP6 with all the groovetracer upgrades  {which will be upgaded after phono} , a Dynavector  DV20X2 cart  {will upgrade this to } ,Dynavector P75 mk3 , Mola Mola Makua  ,Mola Mola Perca and Osborn reference book shelf speakers {upgrading to TAD ME1 later this year .

 

I have demoed a Graham Slee Accession  MC and a Gold Note PH10 with PSU i am also looking at demoing a Sutherland  Little Loco  , i was interested in Whest Audio entry level or mid level phono but  there is no Australian dealer and im a bit nervous spending this amount without a demo .

 

So if you can add anything about the Phono Stages mentioned  or any other phonos in my price range that i could look into demoing that would be much appropriated .

I have had a Whest phono stage and they are excellent. 
 

I would suggest the EAR MC4 step up with the EAR Phonobox it really is an amazing combination around the $5.5k mark. Works beautifully with MM and MC.  The MC4 offers a lot of flexibility.  Even better is the MC4 with a Tron Convergence Signature but that has gone up a lot in price recently due to the Stereophile review of the Tron. 

[rocky500]

The one Phono stage that peaked my interest a while back and would love to try someday is the

EAT E-Glo Petit Phono stage

Seems extremely configurable and responds well it seems to an upgraded power supply.

[SONDEKNZ]

It is my own view that a phono stage needs to be fundamentally neutral. That is to say that if I were to try to "season" my rig to better suit my cartridge, amp or speakers or whatever - a concept that  I do NOT have a problem with - the phono stage is NOT the component I would choose to add that seasoning.

 

When it comes to high-end phono stages, I also reckon that once your reach a particular quality level, the big differentiator is flexibility. With greater flexibility, you can pretty much try any cartridge you like and know that it will be idyllically configured. To my mind, this is what analog is all about!

And, although we are big tube amp fans, I would avoid a tubed phono stage - particularly if you intend to partner this phono stage with Low Output MC carts, with no SUT.

 

Whilst we own a few great phono stages - and a genuine AUDITORIUM21 (DENON DL103) SUT - the very best sound we have been able to conjure is by running our MC carts through our beloved two-box TRICHORD Delphini Phono Stage and matching Linear Power Supply. No SUT.

With all this in mind, if I had your budget, this is what I would buy... Essentially an up-to-the-minute version of our two-box TRICHORD Delphini, but with even greater flexibility! 

MUSICAL SURROUNDINGS Phonomena Nova III MM/MC Phono Stage [£1,375.00]

Gain Switches (dB): 40, 44, 46, 48, 50, 51.5, 52.7, 53.7, 56, 57.5, 58.4, 59.4, 60

Input Load Switches (Ohms): 200pF/300pF, 30, 40, 50, 59, 80, 100, 121, 150, 243, 280, 380, 475, 660, 1k, 2k, 47k, 100k

PLUS

MUSICAL SURROUNDINGS Linear Power Supply [£1,150.00]

 

Edited February 22 by SONDEKNZ

[Demondes]

I have had the Sutherland little loco and it was excellent on certain MC cartridges. Currently using an Audio Research phono ref 2SE (tube based) which whilst not as black a background as the Sutherland has it all over in terms of a beautiful midrange, timbre, micro details.  I understand Audio research is not cheap but well within your price range if you can find a second hand one.

 

I have also used an Luxman eq-500 (also tubes) but found it a bit muddy to my ears even after tube rolling.   Ifi phono3 black excellent small well built and flexible settings with very low noise background but lacks the character of the audio research.

 

in that price range of round a $1000 the Graham Slee and iFi products (set and forget) are excellent.  You need to pay more to jump to The next level.
 

 

Edited February 22 by Demondes

[xwfalcon]

11 hours ago, evil c said:

Pass Labs XP-17 Phono should be on your list. 

I have one of the much older Aleph Ono phono's, and extraordinarily musical and superb soundstage .

The XP-17 has numerous improvements since mine, and build quality and components are ultra high end for the money! 

Thank you i added  it to the list i know i can get an in home demo of the Pass .

Edited February 22 by xwfalcon

[xwfalcon]

11 hours ago, PKay said:

I have had a Whest phono stage and they are excellent. 
 

I would suggest the EAR MC4 step up with the EAR Phonobox it really is an amazing combination around the $5.5k mark. Works beautifully with MM and MC.  The MC4 offers a lot of flexibility.  Even better is the MC4 with a Tron Convergence Signature but that has gone up a lot in price recently due to the Stereophile review of the Tron. 

 

I cant find anyone that sells these in Australia so same problem as the Whest Audio im a bit hestitant to spend that amount of money if I cant bring it home and demo it for at least a week .

 

 

[xwfalcon]

10 hours ago, rocky500 said:

The one Phono stage that peaked my interest a while back and would love to try someday is the

EAT E-Glo Petit Phono stage

Seems extremely configurable and responds well it seems to an upgraded power supply.

 

Thanks mate i have  added it to list will do some investagation to see if i can get an in home demo .

[xwfalcon]

10 hours ago, SONDEKNZ said:

It is my own view that a phono stage needs to be fundamentally neutral. That is to say that if I were to try to "season" my rig to better suit my cartridge, amp or speakers or whatever - a concept that  I do NOT have a problem with - the phono stage is NOT the component I would choose to add that seasoning.

 

When it comes to high-end phono stages, I also reckon that once your reach a particular quality level, the big differentiator is flexibility. With greater flexibility, you can pretty much try any cartridge you like and know that it will be idyllically configured. To my mind, this is what analog is all about!

And, although we are big tube amp fans, I would avoid a tubed phono stage - particularly if you intend to partner this phono stage with Low Output MC carts, with no SUT.

 

Whilst we own a few great phono stages - and a genuine AUDITORIUM21 (DENON DL103) SUT - the very best sound we have been able to conjure is by running our MC carts through our beloved two-box TRICHORD Delphini Phono Stage and matching Linear Power Supply. No SUT.

With all this in mind, if I had your budget, this is what I would buy... Essentially an up-to-the-minute version of our two-box TRICHORD Delphini, but with even greater flexibility! 

MUSICAL SURROUNDINGS Phonomena Nova III MM/MC Phono Stage [£1,375.00]

Gain Switches (dB): 40, 44, 46, 48, 50, 51.5, 52.7, 53.7, 56, 57.5, 58.4, 59.4, 60

Input Load Switches (Ohms): 200pF/300pF, 30, 40, 50, 59, 80, 100, 121, 150, 243, 280, 380, 475, 660, 1k, 2k, 47k, 100k

PLUS

MUSICAL SURROUNDINGS Linear Power Supply [£1,150.00]

 

 

 

I cant find anyone that sells these in Australia so same problem as the Whest Audio im a bit hestitant to spend that amount of money if I cant bring it home and demo it for at least a week .

[StormRL]

I love my Audia Flight Phono. I’m running it with Audia Flight pre and power amps and a Rega p10 (Apheta 3 cart.). The Flight Phono RRP is close to the top end of your budget, however, you can pick up a demo model for a lot less. These come with one of three input gain board choices, namely, 2 x MM or 2 x MC or 1 x MM and 1 x MC.

[xwfalcon]

42 minutes ago, Demondes said:

I have had the Sutherland little loco and it was excellent on certain MC cartridges. Currently using an Audio Research phono ref 2SE (tube based) which whilst not as black a background as the Sutherland has it all over in terms of a beautiful midrange, timbre, micro details.  I understand Audio research is not cheap but well within your price range if you can find a second hand one.

 

I have also used an Luxman eq-500 (also tubes) but found it a bit muddy to my ears even after tube rolling.   Ifi phono3 black excellent small well built and flexible settings with very low noise background but lacks the character of the audio research.

 

in that price range of round a $1000 the Graham Slee and iFi products (set and forget) are excellent.  You need to pay more to jump to The next level.
 

 

 

Thank you for that awesome info the Luxman is off my list i have read many great things about the Audio Research pres but havnt seen that many for sale and sadly a new PH9 is out of my price range .

[xwfalcon]

8 minutes ago, StormRL said:

I love my Audia Flight Phono. I’m running it with Audia Flight pre and power amps and a Rega p10 (Apheta 3 cart.). The Flight Phono RRP is close to the top end of your budget, however, you can pick up a demo model for a lot less. These come with one of three input gain board choices, namely, 2 x MM or 2 x MC or 1 x MM and 1 x MC.

 

Thanks bud  will add the Audio Flight even know its just over budget with a MM/MC board , but if i can stretch that far  i am pretty sure i know were i can get one to demo .

[PKay]

14 minutes ago, xwfalcon said:

 

Thanks bud  will add the Audio Flight even know its just over budget with a MM/MC board , but if i can stretch that far  i am pretty sure i know were i can get one to demo .

I had the AF and it sounded very clinical. Dead quiet but not very engaging in my system. A few friends thought the same.  Definitely audition at home first. 

[xwfalcon]

6 minutes ago, PKay said:

I had the AF and it sounded very clinical. Dead quiet but not very engaging in my system. A few friends thought the same.  Definitely audition at home first. 

 

Thanks mate , can you tell me what Whest model you had and a bit about the sound please .

[Demondes]

13 minutes ago, PKay said:

I had the AF and it sounded very clinical. Dead quiet but not very engaging in my system. A few friends thought the same.  Definitely audition at home first. 

Yes, there are some excellent phonostages like the Sutherland, Audis flight and even the iFi which are dead silent and present a very quiet background (almost like digital).  So you definitely need to listen to these ones first to determine is that what I want most in a phonostage.  Sometimes life like can disappear, but this isn’t a group journey everyone has different expectations.

[xwfalcon]

I will also mention i tried to get an Icon Audio PS3 to demo with no luck so its off the list .

 

 

[xwfalcon]

13 minutes ago, Demondes said:

Yes, there are some excellent phonostages like the Sutherland, Audis flight and even the iFi which are dead silent and present a very quiet background (almost like digital).  So you definitely need to listen to these ones first to determine is that what I want most in a phonostage.  Sometimes life like can disappear, but this isn’t a group journey everyone has different expectations.

 

Funny you mention this the 2 phonos i have demoed  so far to my ears i found one not to be as quiet as the other  and the one that was more noisy  i found more life like and not as sterile .

[2Brix]

@xwfalcon see if you can home demo the Primare R35.  At AUD 3K it's well below your stated AUD 5-10K budget...but well worth a look/listen and plenty of gain and loading settings.

 

 

[PKay]

23 hours ago, xwfalcon said:

 

Thanks mate , can you tell me what Whest model you had and a bit about the sound please .

I had the ps30r which was his entry reference back in the day. 
 

It was very quiet with a big soundstage, detailed and dynamic. It was on the neutral side but not cold. 
 

I did get to hear some of the models up the chain and it only gets better. 
 

These days it’s pretty rare to get a home demo so I would suggest buy well second hand and on sell if you don’t find it suits your system. 

 

[xwfalcon]

7 hours ago, 2Brix said:

@xwfalcon see if you can home demo the Primare R35.  At AUD 3K it's well below your stated AUD 5-10K budget...but well worth a look/listen and plenty of gain and loading settings.

 

 

Thanks mate sent some emails to see if possible to do in house demoing with R35

[xwfalcon]

12 hours ago, PKay said:

I had the ps30r which was his entry reference back in the day. 
 

It was very quiet with a big soundstage, detailed and dynamic. It was on the neutral side but not cold. 
 

I did get to hear some of the models up the chain and it only gets better. 
 

These days it’s pretty rare to get a home demo so I would suggest buy well second hand and on sell if you don’t find it suits your system. 

 

I have been doing not to bad with Phonos i want to demo ,as i have said i have demoed the Accession and have the Gold Note PH 10 with psu this week .I also have got some shops that are willing to help me out , i have talked to a few shops and i can demo Modwright PH 9  ,Sutherland Little Loco and Primare R35 .

But all those demos will be on hold for the minute as i will be demoing something that was at the top of my list ,i got message today from a shop that they will be the Australian Dealer for this brand that  I was very curious about . So i will be demoing the base model and if i like it  i may just order the model above .Just have to wait for stock to arrive . 

 

So thanks everyone who  gave there input via thread and PMs .

 

Will keep you all updated to what i choose  ,im very excited to try the phono that this  shop has coming in .

[SONDEKNZ]

1 hour ago, xwfalcon said:

I have been doing not to bad with Phonos i want to demo ,as i have said i have demoed the Accession and have the Gold Note PH 10 with psu this week .I also have got some shops that are willing to help me out , i have talked to a few shops and i can demo Modwright PH 9  ,Sutherland Little Loco and Primare R35 .

But all those demos will be on hold for the minute as i will be demoing something that was at the top of my list ,i got message today from a shop that they will be the Australian Dealer for this brand that  I was very curious about . So i will be demoing the base model and if i like it  i may just order the model above .Just have to wait for stock to arrive . 

 

So thanks everyone who  gave there input via thread and PMs .

 

Will keep you all updated to what i choose  ,im very excited to try the phono that this  shop has coming in .

Really looking forward to your reports - and hoping you can mention how flexible each of these units is regarding Impedance Loading of MC carts especially.

I have high hopes for the GOLD NOTE PH10 but there has been some noise around reliability issues, but hopefully those problems have been resolved.

[xwfalcon]

8 minutes ago, SONDEKNZ said:

Really looking forward to your reports - and hoping you can mention how flexible each of these units is regarding Impedance Loading of MC carts especially.

I have high hopes for the GOLD NOTE PH10 but there has been some noise around reliability issues, but hopefully those problems have been resolved.

 

I am no phono stage or vinyl expert  mate i do like the Gold Note PH10  it is a very nice sounding phono stage ., what  I can tell you it very easy to change setting with the screen and the knob  ,it has 2 RIAA curves im using the second as seems to give a bit more high end frequency  extension .I found it a bit noisy at first but i  had the gain settings on GN PH10 set plus 3 db which is  68db gain the same as i was running on the Dynavector .I then set GN PH10 to minus 3db which would be 62db gain and its much quiter .At that gain setting im still getting plenty of volume with a low output cart .

[Hydrology]

Maybe hard to demo but as you have a Mola Mola Makua, I would be seriously considering the add-on phono stage.

 

Ive also been fortunate to hear a lot of phono stages in my career and the Luxman EQ500 is one of the best I've ever heard, contrary to other comments in the thread.

I would also give a huge shout out to the OAD UP1 - made here in Australia. A bargain at 3Kish.