Sounder10 Posted March 17 Posted March 17 Hi All, I bought a pair of these, along with the heavy stands purely on reputation (and a 15min audition in someone's home. He uses a $10k setup). I have simple requirements for a system: 1. I stream music from my laptop using a wired USB connection 2. I do 95% of my listening at my desk, where I have a triangle b/w myself and the speakers around 140cm each side. My room is 4mx4m, carpet, untreated, 3. 95% of my listening is done at 50dB 4. I listen to common music genres, including some electronic stuff 5. I wish to include a musical sub, after hearing a REL transform bookshelves a while back 6. My budget for all these extra items is $3,000. I could swing $4,000 if the value proposition is there. What is the best path to take here? I prefer buying used equipment, say 10-20 years old which has proven itself. Should I get separates? Integrated? Monoblock amps? (I was once blown away by the difference these made to some Lenehan MLs). Cheap DAC? Expensive DAC..? Cables - do they matter? Looking forward to your insights. Many thanks!
FR DRew Posted March 18 Posted March 18 No connection to seller but the following would be a stunning backbone for you: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/387991659526?_skw=musical+fidelity&itmmeta=01JPKAMCAGCSRAGANKVBFQFNK4&hash=item5a561ae406:g:mYsAAOSw25VndmE2&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1chuCG9qo904e7%2BsaoSQ7zYs%2F1%2B%2BJZX95jCITeJedmcmBI4KDWmy6YuO78apCNnaRb79brJiKwx%2FW11oysRYw3Cawi0v94NyH%2FlLJZw9quQCKqr3RKRevr%2FApbm5pS6N1c%2F1WLuH0h7tZQJlyoW2TL9rZAgm1%2F84JrDn6V2iKYemnWS02Bu05u1fOnmAaDGJDWuit4rzOEM8%2BovDf%2FNMV9ntAv7%2B%2FQDBxPgiACtk0JdvKMUS1LO9ZVpeyDVoWL0k74%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7TF0eq0ZQ
Sounder10 Posted March 18 Author Posted March 18 Interesting. Is it fussy about which amp I pair it with? There is a Naim NAP250 for sale on Gumtree for $2k...?
FR DRew Posted March 18 Posted March 18 (edited) Apologies, it's just a pre. I had mistakenly thought it was the integrated version. Edited March 18 by FR DRew
Sounder10 Posted March 18 Author Posted March 18 (edited) He is also selling an A3 integrated amp ($950) or two A3CR monos ($1900): (1) https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/387452897719 (2) https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/387381166084 That would cost all up: $1800 for the integrated and $2,750 for 2 monos. How does that stack up in quality to, say the Naim Nait XS 3 ? Edited March 18 by Sounder10
FR DRew Posted March 18 Posted March 18 The A3CR units are significantly superior in sound to the straight A3. Originally the seller was selling each of the power amps individually for 1k. At 2k total for the pre and one power amp I'd think it would be a very good amplifier. Your Pro Acs certainly don't need the second power amplifier. It'd be worth communicating with the seller as to if he was willing to sell them separately again... I can't comment on the sound of the Naim kit, the last Naim I heard was back in the 80's. Some consider them overpriced for the sound produced, some have a devotion to the brand which borders on the religious... Like many brands, there are supposedly good and bad eras where the gear changed sound quality, but what falls when really requires an expert.
Sounder10 Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 Does anyone have an opinion about how the Musical Fidelity A3CR monoblocks (above) compare to the Audiolab 8300M monos? Around the same price. https://www.gumtree.com.au/web/listing/other-audio/1332416516 vs https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/387381166084
cafe67 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 Looking at your original post , would you look at an integrated amp with a built in dac or do you prefer the idea of a seperate amp and dac ?
Sounder10 Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 I don't have a strong opinion either way. Value is important but I don't mind paying up for quality separates if there is a strong case to be made 1
cafe67 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 Have a good look through the classifieds here , you should be able to find what you looking forwards - judging by your listening preferences, doesn’t seem like you are gong to need heaps of watts
Sounder10 Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 I'm not that familiar with what the consensus is around quality items. It would be good to have an amp that can power whatever new speakers I may acquire later
Sounder10 Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 I would have to listen to it first. For that price it would need to be an endgame amp that can run any other speaker I care to buy in future
Snoopy8 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 1 hour ago, Sounder10 said: I would have to listen to it first. For that price it would need to be an endgame amp that can run any other speaker I care to buy in future Unless you live close by, not possible to listen. You have to spend a lot, lot more to reach end game...
PKay Posted March 19 Posted March 19 1 hour ago, Sounder10 said: I would have to listen to it first. For that price it would need to be an endgame amp that can run any other speaker I care to buy in future Driving "Any speaker" then as @Snoopy8said you will need to spend a lot more. The Sugden is a classic amp that is 30 Watts Class A with lots of current. It will drive a lot of speakers beautifully but not speakers that are particularly inefficient. Yours at 86db into 8 ohms would be fine in a small/medium room but you might want something like a Naim Supernait 2 or 3. In terms of interconnects this is what I ended up with after having some interconnects that were worth around the $2k mark. Masterpieces of MOGAMI 2497 2 this pair RCA cables https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/203557875681 For speaker cables I use Kimber 8TC but you can get some nice Canare for much less and they will be excellent. 1
Sounder10 Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 21 minutes ago, PKay said: Driving "Any speaker" then as @Snoopy8said you will need to spend a lot more. The Sugden is a classic amp that is 30 Watts Class A with lots of current. It will drive a lot of speakers beautifully but not speakers that are particularly inefficient. Yours at 86db into 8 ohms would be fine in a small/medium room but you might want something like a Naim Supernait 2 or 3. In terms of interconnects this is what I ended up with after having some interconnects that were worth around the $2k mark. Masterpieces of MOGAMI 2497 2 this pair RCA cables https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/203557875681 For speaker cables I use Kimber 8TC but you can get some nice Canare for much less and they will be excellent. Ok, it's making more sense now. I'm a little uncertain about the speaker cable. Which Canare variant, precisely can do the job of your recommended Kimber? https://store.cliff.com.au/brand/5-canare
PKay Posted March 19 Posted March 19 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sounder10 said: Ok, it's making more sense now. I'm a little uncertain about the speaker cable. Which Canare variant, precisely can do the job of your recommended Kimber? https://store.cliff.com.au/brand/5-canare You'll have to do the research yourself on the speaker cable - I bought the Kimber. Edited March 19 by PKay
gemini07 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 I used to own the same ProAc speakers and fond them to be smooth, rich sounding and very easy to listen to. However, I would avoid a similar sounding integrated amp as I feel it may be too much of the same thing and not give you the detail and separation that you could get with other amps. There is a Krell integrated in the SN Classifieds selling within your budget that should do a good job. Or, for a bit less, the ME integrated would also provide lots of sparkle, power and separation. If it's 'endgame' you're after I would also endorse the Sugden A21 SE signature. I can't guarantee that it would drive any speaker you may buy in the future (?) but it will certainly provide everything you want at low to middle range volume (and a lot more in a small to mid size room). I'd also suggest you hold out on a sub until you see what your new amp can do for your ProAc's. Plus2 for the Mogami speaker and interconnects - unbeatable value. 3
cafe67 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sounder10 said: Ok, it's making more sense now. I'm a little uncertain about the speaker cable. Which Canare variant, precisely can do the job of your recommended Kimber? https://store.cliff.com.au/brand/5-canare This is the Canare most people get https://store.cliff.com.au/speaker-cable/46-canare-4s11-speaker-cable.html again there are some great bargain to be add in the classifieds Edited March 19 by cafe67
Sounder10 Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 9 minutes ago, gemini07 said: I used to own the same ProAc speakers and fond them to be smooth, rich sounding and very easy to listen to. However, I would avoid a similar sounding integrated amp as I feel it may be too much of the same thing and not give you the detail and separation that you could get with other amps. There is a Krell integrated in the SN Classifieds selling within your budget that should do a good job. Or, for a bit less, the ME integrated would also provide lots of sparkle, power and separation. If it's 'endgame' you're after I would also endorse the Sugden A21 SE signature. I can't guarantee that it would drive any speaker you may buy in the future (?) but it will certainly provide everything you want at low to middle range volume (and a lot more in a small to mid size room). I'd also suggest you hold out on a sub until you see what your new amp can do for your ProAc's. Plus2 for the Mogami speaker and interconnects - unbeatable value. Good insight. would a Naim Nait XS2 be considered too similar to the Proacs in sound? These mono blocks seem to show up periodically in the classifieds. Will that extra power translate to better sound overall (low volume listening)? https://www.gumtree.com.au/web/listing/other-audio/1332416516
gemini07 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 Sorry, I can't comment on the Nait. I think the Krell and ME are better than the AudioLab separates, which would obviously require a suitable preamp, and more cables. Best to keep things as simple as possible. Also, IMO, you should try to get the best gear you can afford rather than continually updating, and losing $'s on resales. (A common phenomenon with most of us...). 3
Sounder10 Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 39 minutes ago, gemini07 said: Sorry, I can't comment on the Nait. I think the Krell and ME are better than the AudioLab separates, which would obviously require a suitable preamp, and more cables. Best to keep things as simple as possible. Also, IMO, you should try to get the best gear you can afford rather than continually updating, and losing $'s on resales. (A common phenomenon with most of us...). The fellow over at ASR rates the Wiim Ultra Streamer/Pre-amp. I do need a streamer and the room correction software is useful. Wouldn't this and the monoblocks be a superior system? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-ultra-streamer-preamp-review.57342/
cafe67 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sounder10 said: The fellow over at ASR rates the Wiim Ultra Streamer/Pre-amp. I do need a streamer and the room correction software is useful. Wouldn't this and the monoblocks be a superior system? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-ultra-streamer-preamp-review.57342/ Again given what you posted in your first post, I don’t think you need to over complicate it. get yourself a decent integrated , dac , some cables and you should have decent system. you said you listened to music via usb cable, so no need for streamer. ? this audiolab integrated includes a dac so easy to connect up your computer , 50w so should be plenty of power for your listening preferences and pre out makes for easy subwoofer connection. https://www.apollohifi.com.au/audiolab-6000a.html?srsltid=AfmBOopYKbwtkFXkGG6IPxH3TdnSQU22wexM1Izltus7Sk6siJy48bzS or if you wanted to spend a bit more $$$ https://www.lenc.com.au/products/rotel-a14-mkii-integrated-amplifier Edited March 19 by cafe67 1
Sounder10 Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 13 minutes ago, cafe67 said: Again given what you posted in your first post, I don’t think you need to over complicate it. get yourself a decent integrated , dac , some cables and you should have decent system. you said you listened to music via usb cable, so no need for streamer. ? this audiolab integrated includes a dac so easy to connect up your computer , 50w so should be plenty of power for your listening preferences and pre out makes for easy subwoofer connection. https://www.apollohifi.com.au/audiolab-6000a.html?srsltid=AfmBOopYKbwtkFXkGG6IPxH3TdnSQU22wexM1Izltus7Sk6siJy48bzS Right, the streamer is a late addition (it is far cheaper than I expected). Will inspect the audiolab 1
andyr Posted Thursday at 04:32 AM Posted Thursday at 04:32 AM On 19/03/2025 at 12:51 PM, cafe67 said: Have a good look through the classifieds here , you should be able to find what you looking forwards - judging by your listening preferences, doesn’t seem like you are gong to need heaps of watts On 19/03/2025 at 3:07 PM, Sounder10 said: I would have to listen to it first. For that price it would need to be an endgame amp that can run any other speaker I care to buy in future A mate of mine has some ProAc standmounts. He found they needed an amp which was able to drive 4 ohm spkrs well - he's currently using a pair of AKSA 'Soraya' monoblocs (100w into 8 ohms / 190w into 4 ohms). Hugh's latest equivalent amp - the 'Titan' - should be equivalent; both of these require a preamp. A new amp which should also drive your ProAcs well is the (Australian-made) March Audio P282 ... although you would also need to buy a preamp. Mark ( @mwhouston ) should be able to build you one for not a lot. Or used ... if you can find a used Musical Fidelity M5Si, it should also drive them well. 2
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