mgoldey Posted March 17 Posted March 17 Have you ever bought something large and expensive that you have trouble lifting off the floor, but it was a bargain and the opportunity fell in your lap? Of course you have.... My story involves a pair of Crown Princes that a Wall Street broker type bought new and had shipped to New York during the Reagan administration. 40 years later, he's retiring to Florida without his speakers, which are in my parents' basement because I don't own a vehicle large enough to get them to Manhattan. I'm starting a restoration project and would be grateful for any advice. I don't think that a lot of the Sovereigns made it to the States and my local hifi shop doesn't know diddley about them. You folks do.... Both speakers are both wrapped in a heavy, awful fabric the color of oatmeal (see the picture) and I haven't been able to inspect the business end of them yet. So no audio porn yet b/c it wouldn't be good porn. But I will need to recover them. The fabric on my pair is stiff and heavy, and also stapled to the back of the unit with 30 staples, probably to keep the fabric under tension. I saw that UncleMack re-covered a pair using a slightly stretchy fabric. I'm wondering if there's a trick to this, like, sew a sleeve that will self-tension after being pulled tight over the top, instead of wrapping fabric and trying to keep it taught while staple-gunning a seam down the back? The more important question is about the crossovers. put some audio into the speakers and nothing seems outright damaged (won't know until I get the fabric off them). I am considering sending the crossovers to Duntech to be rebuilt, which will cost $1000. They look to be the originals (please see the picture) and I don't have a manufacturing date -- serial # is 206A; can anyone date these? -- and they ought to be around 40 years old. Nothing is leaking or bulging, though. Do they need replacing? Well.... In my parents' basement storage room, hooked to a consumer 5.1 channel Mitshbishi M-VR600 with cheap-o lamp cords of unequal length, playing mp3s to a bluetooth receiver plugged into the VCR inputs -- did I mention this is in my parents' basement? -- they sound fine. Some of my live recordings give a real sense of space and I can hear the musicians' shift positions, which is terrific! On the other hand, the Misubishi needs to be turned up 3/4 of the way to get any real volume of the Princes. It's a mediocre audiophile amp to begin with. The bass was fine considering, but the mids and highsed seem a little dull. At times, there was a rhythmic pulsing / whooshing sound which I attribute to the underpowered amp, but at that point I shut everything down. None of that screams "bad capacitors" but I've never had a pair of speakers old enough to make me wonder. Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks. 4
Andythiing Posted March 17 Posted March 17 @Zaphod Beeblebrox might have some guidance on what might be worth checking? but I would suggest you don’t rush to change anything - my pair of CP are all original crossovers (AFAIK) and sound fantastic the “sock” material is easy to obtain and should be inexpensive to have made up - @unclemack might help with advice have fun - but if your budget allows get some quality amps to drive them - again @Zaphod Beeblebrox might suggest some us accessible options that will do the job - krell - mark levison - parasound jc1 etc
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted March 17 Posted March 17 Cool project, my curiosity got the better of me, looks like a second pair in the states with the same finish https://reverb.com/item/58268413-duntech-crown-prince-vintage-floorstanding-speakers-pcl-1000-excellent
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted March 17 Posted March 17 I'm not sure about the crossovers. They could be original. If so, then they should work fine for the next couple of hundred years. Amplification is important for the big Duntechs. I would suggest a big old Krell. The heavier, the better. 2
mwhouston Posted March 18 Posted March 18 7 hours ago, mgoldey said: Have you ever bought something large and expensive that you have trouble lifting off the floor, but it was a bargain and the opportunity fell in your lap? Of course you have.... My story involves a pair of Crown Princes that a Wall Street broker type bought new and had shipped to New York during the Reagan administration. 40 years later, he's retiring to Florida without his speakers, which are in my parents' basement because I don't own a vehicle large enough to get them to Manhattan. I'm starting a restoration project and would be grateful for any advice. I don't think that a lot of the Sovereigns made it to the States and my local hifi shop doesn't know diddley about them. You folks do.... Both speakers are both wrapped in a heavy, awful fabric the color of oatmeal (see the picture) and I haven't been able to inspect the business end of them yet. So no audio porn yet b/c it wouldn't be good porn. But I will need to recover them. The fabric on my pair is stiff and heavy, and also stapled to the back of the unit with 30 staples, probably to keep the fabric under tension. I saw that UncleMack re-covered a pair using a slightly stretchy fabric. I'm wondering if there's a trick to this, like, sew a sleeve that will self-tension after being pulled tight over the top, instead of wrapping fabric and trying to keep it taught while staple-gunning a seam down the back? The more important question is about the crossovers. put some audio into the speakers and nothing seems outright damaged (won't know until I get the fabric off them). I am considering sending the crossovers to Duntech to be rebuilt, which will cost $1000. They look to be the originals (please see the picture) and I don't have a manufacturing date -- serial # is 206A; can anyone date these? -- and they ought to be around 40 years old. Nothing is leaking or bulging, though. Do they need replacing? Well.... In my parents' basement storage room, hooked to a consumer 5.1 channel Mitshbishi M-VR600 with cheap-o lamp cords of unequal length, playing mp3s to a bluetooth receiver plugged into the VCR inputs -- did I mention this is in my parents' basement? -- they sound fine. Some of my live recordings give a real sense of space and I can hear the musicians' shift positions, which is terrific! On the other hand, the Misubishi needs to be turned up 3/4 of the way to get any real volume of the Princes. It's a mediocre audiophile amp to begin with. The bass was fine considering, but the mids and highsed seem a little dull. At times, there was a rhythmic pulsing / whooshing sound which I attribute to the underpowered amp, but at that point I shut everything down. None of that screams "bad capacitors" but I've never had a pair of speakers old enough to make me wonder. Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks. Golly, the Xover is complex emough.
mgoldey Posted March 20 Author Posted March 20 Thanks, everyone, for the input. I'll reach out to UncleMack about the fabric. At the moment, the closest thing to a big iron amp that I can lay my hands on is a Yamaha A-1 (the original model from the late 70s / early 80s) which I adore. Probably insufficient even though it's very clean and its power rating (40 watts?) is for real and not a fudge. It does need a once-over and I'd like to replace the terminals with something more robust that then spring clips it came with, and to upgrade the convenience outlets in the back with polarized plugs. But that's a separate project.... 1
Jakeyb77_Redux Posted March 20 Posted March 20 Here’s my restoration. Same speakers, different cabinets. The woofers and mids in these are very hard to find and not ageing well. Make sure these all work before undertaking other repairs. 2 1
Sub Sonic Posted March 20 Posted March 20 Nice find Those woofers will need refoaming, and are quite possibly the source of the “whooshing” sound you described. Regards, SS 2
VAF Posted March 21 Posted March 21 On 18/03/2025 at 3:09 AM, mgoldey said: Have you ever bought something large and expensive that you have trouble lifting off the floor, but it was a bargain and the opportunity fell in your lap? Of course you have.... My story involves a pair of Crown Princes that a Wall Street broker type bought new and had shipped to New York during the Reagan administration. 40 years later, he's retiring to Florida without his speakers, which are in my parents' basement because I don't own a vehicle large enough to get them to Manhattan. I'm starting a restoration project and would be grateful for any advice. I don't think that a lot of the Sovereigns made it to the States and my local hifi shop doesn't know diddley about them. You folks do.... Both speakers are both wrapped in a heavy, awful fabric the color of oatmeal (see the picture) and I haven't been able to inspect the business end of them yet. So no audio porn yet b/c it wouldn't be good porn. But I will need to recover them. The fabric on my pair is stiff and heavy, and also stapled to the back of the unit with 30 staples, probably to keep the fabric under tension. I saw that UncleMack re-covered a pair using a slightly stretchy fabric. I'm wondering if there's a trick to this, like, sew a sleeve that will self-tension after being pulled tight over the top, instead of wrapping fabric and trying to keep it taught while staple-gunning a seam down the back? The more important question is about the crossovers. put some audio into the speakers and nothing seems outright damaged (won't know until I get the fabric off them). I am considering sending the crossovers to Duntech to be rebuilt, which will cost $1000. They look to be the originals (please see the picture) and I don't have a manufacturing date -- serial # is 206A; can anyone date these? -- and they ought to be around 40 years old. Nothing is leaking or bulging, though. Do they need replacing? Well.... In my parents' basement storage room, hooked to a consumer 5.1 channel Mitshbishi M-VR600 with cheap-o lamp cords of unequal length, playing mp3s to a bluetooth receiver plugged into the VCR inputs -- did I mention this is in my parents' basement? -- they sound fine. Some of my live recordings give a real sense of space and I can hear the musicians' shift positions, which is terrific! On the other hand, the Misubishi needs to be turned up 3/4 of the way to get any real volume of the Princes. It's a mediocre audiophile amp to begin with. The bass was fine considering, but the mids and highsed seem a little dull. At times, there was a rhythmic pulsing / whooshing sound which I attribute to the underpowered amp, but at that point I shut everything down. None of that screams "bad capacitors" but I've never had a pair of speakers old enough to make me wonder. Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks. Very nice... I have just shown these pics to Ted, our longest serving staff member at VAF (since 1993), prior to that he worked at Duntech and it is extremely likely he hand built these very crossovers. He said these are from the early days, as they later went to 4, bi-ampable posts as opposed to two. They also have the capacitors that were made in-house at Duntech (they later switched to Solen). Visually they look fine, the capacitors will last for donkeys years and the resistors don't look discoloured at all. Try a more powerful amp, these speakers love and crave power. 6
darthlaker Posted March 21 Posted March 21 I used to work for an international freight forwarder in Adelaide, where Duntechs were manufactured. Emery Worldwide - sold to UPS many years ago. Emery handled the air freight of these huge speakers. As a young lad I was amazed at the size of the boxes. Some of the speakers went to New York and I remember they told me some of the speakers had to be craned up to windows which were removed as they did not fit in the stairs or the lift! I did visit the factory and they gave me a quick listen. Amazing. They had a Krell CD Player but don't remember the rest of the gear. 1
Sub Sonic Posted March 23 Posted March 23 On 21/3/2025 at 6:11 PM, darthlaker said: I used to work for an international freight forwarder in Adelaide, where Duntechs were manufactured. Emery Worldwide - sold to UPS many years ago. Emery handled the air freight of these huge speakers. As a young lad I was amazed at the size of the boxes. Some of the speakers went to New York and I remember they told me some of the speakers had to be craned up to windows which were removed as they did not fit in the stairs or the lift! I did visit the factory and they gave me a quick listen. Amazing. They had a Krell CD Player but don't remember the rest of the gear. I used to haunt there, always after ex-R&D speaker drivers to make my own speakers. I recall Krell monoblocks being there, paired with Sovereigns. Krell were one of their favourite pairings at the time. Not sure why I still remember, but each of the Dynaudio 30W100 woofers was in its own sealed 160 litre compartment. They were definitely huge speakers 1
mgoldey Posted Tuesday at 03:04 AM Author Posted Tuesday at 03:04 AM I removed the fabric covers from the face of the speakers today and I'm pleased to say that the foam is intact on every driver, and nothing appears to be damaged. Maybe the eagle-eyed experts will spot something amiss, but it all looks fine to me. One of the corner trim pieces has come loose, probably due to the fabric pulling on it, but that should be an easy fix once I take the tops and bottoms off. It seems that I have gotten lucky here! 4
Andythiing Posted Tuesday at 03:15 AM Posted Tuesday at 03:15 AM Look good - have a careful listen (ear close to each driver) to make sure all are working - but looks very promising - new covers of you want and you could be good to go
Sub Sonic Posted Tuesday at 09:45 AM Posted Tuesday at 09:45 AM (edited) It’s a little hard to see, but it looks like the original foam surrounds on the bass drivers may have been replaced with rubber? Edited Tuesday at 09:45 AM by Sub Sonic
mgoldey Posted Tuesday at 11:12 AM Author Posted Tuesday at 11:12 AM 1 hour ago, Sub Sonic said: It’s a little hard to see, but it looks like the original foam surrounds on the bass drivers may have been replaced with rubber? I think that's right. At least, the surrounds seem very "new" and shiny for 40-year old parts. Are they actually rubber? Maybe.... They seemed heaver to me than light-weight foam would be. But I don't know what was originally there, and I'm no longer in my parents' basement to look again.
Sub Sonic Posted Wednesday at 06:48 AM Posted Wednesday at 06:48 AM 19 hours ago, mgoldey said: I think that's right. At least, the surrounds seem very "new" and shiny for 40-year old parts. Are they actually rubber? Maybe.... They seemed heaver to me than light-weight foam would be. But I don't know what was originally there, and I'm no longer in my parents' basement to look again. If they sound good, just enjoy them Sealed speakers are likely to be less affected by surround changes than ported designs. 1
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