valvelover Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Agree with this. As a rider I think one of the most confusing thing a driver can do is to come past me and then wait in the adjacent lane. I don't know what the driver is going to do. I don't know whether to continue riding in case they haven't seen me etc....l always take a defensive point of view. I generally think that the driver was just being dumb, why couldn't they have stayed behind me if they wanted to turn left. If they weren't sure where they are going again why come past? That's a general thing though on the roads, no matter what mode of transport - never assume and always be safe rather than sorry. Many drivers in cars think that they are infallible sadly - last Friday on my way home from work it was raining moderately heavy. I was doing 50 in a 60 zone, given the conditions, and had an idiot go past doing at least 80 in said 60 zone...where are the cops when you need them! Those are the types of people who shouldn't be on the road!!!!
peacewise Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Perhaps all Stobie poles should have road traffic cameras on them! I'd vote for that. 1
blybo Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 my apologies, it seems I am wrong - bicycles are considered vehicles, at least in QLD: http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Travel-and-transport/Cycling/Bike-user-guide/Road-rules-for-cyclists.aspx Although I find it amusing: what about turning Left? I mean, I have to indicate whether I turn Left or Right when I'm driving a car... Cyclist have to brake using their hands, it makes it a little more difficult to signal. Because turning left doesn't include crossing in front of oncoming traffic it is decided it can be done safely without need for a signal. Problem with turning right when going downhill on a bike is our right braking hand is the more effective one, ie. the front brake.
valvelover Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 There are many cyclists on the road without licences. We call them teenagers. What is the problem? If a teenager loses control of his bmx bike going down a hill will the bike career through an intersection killing half a dozen preschoolers? Dave? Will it? Generally not. But what happens if the rider loses control and goes into the middle of a busy intersection and a driver has to take evasive action in an attempt to avoid the cyclist? That could get real ugly, especially in a busy intersection. Cars vs cyclists don't bode well for the latter due to the lack of protection for the rider. Car vs Car offers far greater protection as a rule. Should a teenager by given free reign on the road? I personally think not. I mean, a teenager has to be at least a certain age in order to get their Ls these days (I'm not sure what the age is, it was 14 and 9 months when I was a lad)...very very very very few teenagers have the maturity to drive safely on the road at that age, and that's why they have to go through quite a few # of hours of training with an experienced licensed driver. No such thing for a cyclist...but said cyclist has to supposedly understand the road rules. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise the issues.
davidsss Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 alrighty, let's be specific - a specific licence to ride a bicycle on the road. A driver's licence for a car doesn't entitle you to ride a motorcycle on the road...and specific registration for said bicycle (including number plates). As it stands, when a bike breaks the road rules, it's impossible for me to report it, since it has no formal identification like a car. Go on, report the next car you see breaking a road rule. Take down the number plate and go to the police and report them. Once the coppers get off the floor and catch their breath from laughing they will cheerfully ignore your complaint. This argument is complete and utter bollocks. Even with camera footage identifying the car, showing the number plate and the driver no action is taken. Rego does not change anything. DS 1
jezzaboogie Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 It occurred to me (riding home this time) how much happier things will be when cars are automated and driven by computer. This begs the question though. There is obviously something wrong when I can imagine I'll easily be much safer in that situation. What is it that is going wrong currently?
valvelover Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Cyclist have to brake using their hands, it makes it a little more difficult to signal. Because turning left doesn't include crossing in front of oncoming traffic it is decided it can be done safely without need for a signal. Problem with turning right when going downhill on a bike is our right braking hand is the more effective one, ie. the front brake. so, what you're basically admitting is that the bicycles are unstable on the road, with limitations, at least compared to 4 wheeled vehicles (i.e. cars). I remember my old bicycle that I had as a lad had brakes on the pedals, not the handlebars...and yes, I hand indicated for Left & Right turns...
blybo Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Anyone else watching Q&A? All the points about needing better infrastructure, needing insurance and registration, needing specific bike licenses, needing bike riders to slow down and pay more attention, separating bikes and cars....who was saying all that earlier? Couldn't have been me could it... Easy target. Blame the minority group. Cyclist see it all the time. A female riding friend of mine wrote a letter of complaint to Tom Elliot of 3aw and Herald Sun fame for an inflammatory piece he wrote a couple of weeks ago. He called her gutless because she wouldn't go on air to be ambushed by him... And this guys a cyclist, journalists/shock jocks will do anything for ratings/online clicks.
valvelover Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Perhaps all Stobie poles should have road traffic cameras on them! I'd vote for that. Sorry, I had to google what a stobie pole was lol. I'm all for more automated speed cameras. I'd say that at least >= 95% of drivers speed on the road.
Jake Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Go on, report the next car you see breaking a road rule. Take down the number plate and go to the police and report them. Once the coppers get off the floor and catch their breath from laughing they will cheerfully ignore your complaint. This argument is complete and utter bollocks. Even with camera footage identifying the car, showing the number plate and the driver no action is taken. Rego does not change anything. DS Logic seems to have little effect David, but kudos for trying.
peacewise Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Is the following true? Every single cyclist who stays to the left is being courteous, as a vehicle they have a legal right to the entire lane. Edited March 24, 2014 by peacewise
jezzaboogie Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Logic seems to have little effect David, but kudos for trying. I thought the comment about foot brakes was very logical.
valvelover Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Easy target. Blame the minority group. Cyclist see it all the time. A female riding friend of mine wrote a letter of complaint to Tom Elliot of 3aw and Herald Sun fame for an inflammatory piece he wrote a couple of weeks ago. He called her gutless because she wouldn't go on air to be ambushed by him... And this guys a cyclist, journalists/shock jocks will do anything for ratings/online clicks. The problem here is that cyclists are used to free reign when it comes to riding and will resist any attempt to regulate them. That's typical human reaction to change. As an aside, one of my colleagues at work, has hit 3 cyclists in the past 3 or 4 months (without penalty). His attitude is "you're in my way" towards cyclists sadly. He has no intention of being nice to cyclists, he considers them scum on the roads. Myself, one of my colleagues who's a cyclist, and another colleague were all disgusted with his attitude. I don't dislike cyclists - I don't want equality on the roads though and that is currently lacking. Tell me, how do police track down a cyclist who runs a Red light? Helmet obscures their face. No rego plate. Pretty damn hard! There's the issue of some lost revenue there too.
valvelover Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Go on, report the next car you see breaking a road rule. Take down the number plate and go to the police and report them. Once the coppers get off the floor and catch their breath from laughing they will cheerfully ignore your complaint. This argument is complete and utter bollocks. Even with camera footage identifying the car, showing the number plate and the driver no action is taken. Rego does not change anything. DS you are probably correct - but that's cos police are lazy bastards. Don't even get me started on them.
proftournesol Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 my apologies, it seems I am wrong - bicycles are considered vehicles, at least in QLD: http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Travel-and-transport/Cycling/Bike-user-guide/Road-rules-for-cyclists.aspx Although I find it amusing: what about turning Left? I mean, I have to indicate whether I turn Left or Right when I'm driving a car... Cyclists are quite capable of indicating when turning. Remember though that as most braking is done with the front brake on the right side of the handlebar, it's actually harder to indicate a right turn if a rider is simultaneously braking.
valvelover Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 It occurred to me (riding home this time) how much happier things will be when cars are automated and driven by computer. This begs the question though. There is obviously something wrong when I can imagine I'll easily be much safer in that situation. What is it that is going wrong currently? why not automate all vehicles on the road?
proftournesol Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 I'm surprised that nobody has claimed that cycling is unAustralian.
valvelover Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Cyclists are quite capable of indicating when turning. Remember though that as most braking is done with the front brake on the right side of the handlebar, it's actually harder to indicate a right turn if a rider is simultaneously braking. Let's consider motorcycles, which have both front and rear braking (front controlled by the handle grip and rear by the foot);;http://motorcycles.about.com/od/commonquestions/a/how_to_brake_on_a_motorcycle.htm motorcycles still have to indicate BOTH Left and Right... so, perhaps the design is bad on bicycles?
valvelover Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 I'm surprised that nobody has claimed that cycling is unAustralian. because that'd be idiotic and illogical.
valvelover Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Anyway, I bid you all adieu, I'm off to finish my dinner and go watch some Battlestar Galactica. Safe driving & cycling to everyone.
Jake Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Tell me, how do police track down a cyclist who runs a Red light? Helmet obscures their face. No rego plate. Pretty damn hard! There's the issue of some lost revenue there too.Why would you want to book a cyclist for running a red light? It should be encouraged I say (with care of course). Same with stop signs, we should be able to roll on through if it is safe to do so.
Malcolm Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Why would you want to book a cyclist for running a red light? It should be encouraged I say (with care of course). Same with stop signs, we should be able to roll on through if it is safe to do so. And you call me a troll :-) that's funny . Cheers 2
David A Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I'm amazed at the tone of this thread, so much anger and aggression. This is the real problem, we are living in a way that makes many of us angry, and this anger is easily directed at targets: drivers, cyclists, asylum seekers, single mothers, 'dole bludgers' etc. It's too easy to demonise the 'other' by: seeing 'them' (as opposed to 'us') as a collective who deserve collective punishment - 'all drivers, all cyclists' etc seeing only 'the car' or 'the lycra' rather than seeing them as fellow citizens, people like us. We have transformed the 'Common Wealth' of Australia into the 'F off, get outta my way, you are interfering with my personal rights' Australia and it's a sad sad thing. Riders make mistakes, drivers make mistakes, we all get angry at times but we need to start working in a more cooperative empathic respectful way: ripping off mirrors, kicking cars, deliberately running bikes of the road, tooting your horn at cyclists, yelling abuse and throwing urine at cyclists is a symptom of the mindless angry individualism that infects us all. Nobody here has mentioned saying sorry in a single post, admitted to making an error, or seen any value in empathy or cooperation. Sad. What you're picking up on here Proft is the pervasive reality that a large number of us (more than we'd like to admit) are very selfish and have a sense of entitlement on the road (whether we're talking about cyclists or drivers). It's not just about cars and bikes sharing the road...it's about the way we have become in the major cities of this country. Why is that? Is it because of a growing gap between rich and poor? higher density housing and higher percentages of transient renters in the inner city which is killing any sense of community spirit? Less job or global security which is making us angry or anxious about our future? Longer working hours which are causing increasing levels of stress and leading us to grab...selfishly and zealously...whatever bit of road or time we can for ourselves and to hell with the rest of the world? Or maybe it's the ever increasing divorce rate? Or suicide rate? Pick your poison...but it aint a warm, fuzzy community out there. Not in my neck of the woods anyway.. Edited March 24, 2014 by Bodhi 2
proftournesol Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 because that'd be idiotic and illogical. That's why I'm surprised :nana
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