Dangers of cycling

[betty boop]

The problem as I see it is people are used to looking when alighting from the drivers side as that is obviously a dangerous side, but for the vast majority of the times when alighting from the passenger side the car is at the kerbside and it is safe to do so without looking as you would have taken note of pedestrians close by as the car drove in. It is only dangerous for those few times when there is a cycle lane. How do you instill that training in people to be observant for those few occasions?

 

Better training for the taxi drivers to warn passengers about cyclists before they get out?

 

taxi drivers have full access to mirrors to look down the sides of the car and could easily warn their passengers to say. stop...a bike is down the side of the car...

[betty boop]

We call it a SMIDSY (Sorry Mate I Didn't See You). I've been knocked off my bike by a car failing to give way once. Luckily there was no traffic in the next lane as that where my bike and I landed.

 

However we perceive the risk of cycling on road, it's still statistically safer than riding on shared bike/walking paths. The vast majority of my mates have been hit by cars, sometimes at high speed, but they are all still here and still cycling. I believe the average fatality a year for cyclists is around 15 Australia wide. Considering 10% of peak hour vehicles entering Melbournes CBD these days are bicycles, it's a pretty low number, we just get scared more often as we know how vulnerable we are.

 

scared me enough to check with my wife, whom also commutes by bike most days, and she replied she is very carefull with cars and other motorists. wont cross paths with them unless has eye contact and acknoledgement from them to pass and she always replys with a nod to acknowledge their response. was pleased to know she takes care. but still worries me the motorists she doesnt see and dont see her...

[betty boop]

ps dont get me started on the pathetic bicycle shared path/road business councils and governement are providing as an excuse for bike paths ! 

 

ferntree gully road in melbourne for instance, what a joke ! what they do is ever 400 m or so on the road they put a bicycle symbol with a little white line alongside to signify a bike path...yep like thats going to help things ! 

 

I have come to realise cars and trucks and vans just dont mix with bikes. just too risky...and when they do gee as a cyclists have to just ramp up the awareness, but still leaves me worried ! 

[Monty]

I think we need to be careful not to overstate the dangers of cycling. Otherwise we run the risks: first of discouraging new or inexperienced cyclists; and second of giving oxygen to anti-cyclist rants that bicycles don’t belong on the road.

 

I don’t mean to dismiss the dangers of cycling outright. Of course, cyclists are vulnerable road users. In any collision with a motor vehicle the speed and mass differential means it’s the cyclist who’ll come off second best. Accidents happen. The consequences can be horrific, but the risk is not high.  I’ve been an all weather all season cycle commuter for over 20 years and I’ve never been hit by a car (I’ve had some narrow shaves and falls, of course). Those are pretty good odds.

 

It’s up to all of us, individually and as a society to make the roads safer.  One little thing I like to do is to ride ‘like an ambassador’.  Whenever a motorist does something that makes my ride smoother (giving way, dropping back to give me the lane leading into a roundabout or chicane, whatever) I give them a smile and wave of thanks (even if they’re just doing what they’re supposed to do).  Good manners cost nothing and it makes me feel good too.

[betty boop]

monty I'd happily take my kids riding on a bike path on a weekend. and jog on these same paths totally in confidence of my safety.

 

but its motorists out there that seem totally oblivious to bicycles that worries me.

 

I like your stlyle though

[Freedom]

But if cyclists ride in the 'parking' lane then how would a car driver expect 'any' vehicles to commute in that lane?

 

When you park a car you can open your door and get out (within your lane).

 

Just wondering out loud.

[Damhooligan]

reminded me just how helpless as cyclists can be. you are just not even seen or noticed. and I ride with hi-vis, lit up like a christmas tree, not riding in pitch darkness etc. still feel am not seen !

It's a shame you are giving up.

But you are not helpless.

First of all, there is magical solution that eliminates risk, mode of transport is irrelevant.

So switching to another mode of transport won't eliminate the risk, it will only change it.

But you can reduce risks.

If you are not seen, my estimate is that your road placement is open for improvement.

Road positioning is so much more important then lights and high vis.

There are ways to improve being noticed.

Secondly, if you are expecting drivers to make mistakes in advance, you can prepare for this, and take evasive action.

In al lot of situations, the incident could be avoided by taking a different approach to hazardous situations.

When I ride, I'm not expecting drivers to see me, I'm expecting that they don't.

If they then create I situation that causes problems for me, I am prepared, and have a evasive plan.

This is highly effective, and puts me in control of everything I can see in front of me.

I don't have any control about traffic behind me, but I put that in the categorie of 'comes with the territory'.

NO matter what form of transport you choose , you are never 100% in control.

[Damhooligan]

Regardless of how careful you going to be as a cyclist, it will not protect you against a motorist that for what ever reason is distracted.

More cars  more bikes and more mobile phones = some one really Fu@ked up!

Nope, nothing will protect you from drugged or drunk drivers either.

But live is not without risk.

Those drivers will never stop me from enjoying cycling.

I'm not stop cycling, cause of what if.

[Damhooligan]

taxi drivers have full access to mirrors to look down the sides of the car and could easily warn their passengers to say. stop...a bike is down the side of the car...

Yes, but it's useless if passengers won't listen.

Taxi drivers can assist, but can not prevent or stop passengers from leaving.

It's the passengers responsibility to look before opening.

Not the taxi driver.

[betty boop]

It's a shame you are giving up.

But you are not helpless.

First of all, there is magical solution that eliminates risk, mode of transport is irrelevant.

So switching to another mode of transport won't eliminate the risk, it will only change it.

But you can reduce risks.

If you are not seen, my estimate is that your road placement is open for improvement.

Road positioning is so much more important then lights and high vis.

There are ways to improve being noticed.

Secondly, if you are expecting drivers to make mistakes in advance, you can prepare for this, and take evasive action.

In al lot of situations, the incident could be avoided by taking a different approach to hazardous situations.

When I ride, I'm not expecting drivers to see me, I'm expecting that they don't.

If they then create I situation that causes problems for me, I am prepared, and have a evasive plan.

This is highly effective, and puts me in control of everything I can see in front of me.

I don't have any control about traffic behind me, but I put that in the categorie of 'comes with the territory'.

NO matter what form of transport you choose , you are never 100% in control.

 

not giving up, never said I would...but am just more fully aware of the risks... as recently reminded

[Damhooligan]

not giving up, never said I would...but am just more fully aware of the risks... as recently reminded

But you are not riding on the road anymore.. ?

[Freedom]

I will only rarely ride on 'roads'!

[betty boop]

But you are not riding on the road anymore.. ?

 

dont have to ride on a road to enjoy riding ! as I mentioned on my opening post I stopped riding on a road ages ago after a bus tried to take me out ! so yeah I ever since have continued riding....just not on roads ! 

 

but yeah just because you dont ride on a road, doesnt mean you dont interact with other motorists.....

[Jake]

Taxis should be purpose-built for the task, not bloody sedans. The poms had this sorted decades ago. Even better, the Nissan NV200 now adopted by NYC. This vehicle would be a step towards designing out the problem of taxi passengers dooring cyclists.

 

 

But the reality in Australia is that we don't have a cycling-friendly mentality. The culture is non-existent.

 

Here is a great article on why Holland is so bicycle-centric.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23587916

[Orpheus]

The answer is more people riding bikes.

 

Only when the numbers are high enough will drivers start to expect them.

 

I also think decent bike lanes are important. The sort of bike lanes which physically separate the traffic from bikes. And they have to be wide enough to be attractive to use.

[Jackal008]

Timely topic. I just re-entered the cycling deal after 20 plus years of not having a bike. I live in Sydney and ride an urban hybrid style of bike - perfect for me. I like Damhooligan's points and attitude. I also rock climb, have mountain climbed in the past, backcountry snowboard, rock fish and swim in the harbour. All these activities could be deemed high risk, but you have safety and risk mitigation in the forefront of your mind all time - maintaining control is the key.

 

I love riding again. It brings a smile to face and scares me sometimes and I reckon that's a healthy thing. We can't live life wrapped in cotton wool.

[CryptiK]

It's just a silly combination - bike rider doing way under the speed limit in the same lane as all the cars and trucks and buses. Sure you can argue it's a speed limit not a must do speed, but just because you want to take an hour to get where I can get in a car in 20 mins doesnt mean people want to sit behind you either. The speed difference is just too large and the size of car vs bike rider too great  to share a zone IMO. When I was in Germany, footpaths were double wide with half a bike zone the other half for those on foot. The road was for motor vehicles. Worked very well.

[betty boop]

 agree

 

some good examples of how to do it right...

 

amsterdam

 

 

 

montreal,

 

 

and am sure there are good examples of this around the world including even locally in oz.

 

we have a terific sections of bike paths I must say. but yeah its just hte intersections with roads and motorists where they seem to loose the plot a bit

[proftournesol]

from The Guardian today

 

 

Cyclists aren't the enemy - Australia needs road rules to protect us

 

Every day when I hop on my bicycle, I attach lights to the handlebars and the seat post, two flashing beacons to warn motorists of my fragile presence. I wear lurid green or orange lycra jerseys and the mandatory helmet. I want to be seen. I want to be safe.

Whenever I’ve experienced a near-miss with a vehicle – and believe me it happens far too frequently – when I quiz the driver why they came so close their inevitable response is “I didn’t see you”. I point to my flashing lights, in vain. I try to understand that, for a second or two, perhaps I was in their blind spot. It forces me to ride even more defensively, to always make eye contact with motorists planning to turn across my path.

In the past week, we have witnessed three high-profile incidents involving cars and cyclists. On Sunday, news came through that six cyclists were hit by a single vehiclein an accident on Southern Cross Drive in Sydney. Thankfully, no-one was killed, but all the cyclists were rushed to hospital. Social media showed photos of the damage to the car – a shattered windscreen and large dents. Looking at that photo, we can all imagine the damage that inflicts on a human.

The cyclists were all members of a local club, out for their regular Sunday morning ride. They were riding in a peloton, probably two abreast, perhaps in a line of three or more, obeying the law. Whenever I’ve ridden in a peloton, I’ve always felt safer than on a solo ride. No longer can the motorist claim that I can’t be seen. There’s a tribe of us, as long and wide as any car. There’s no blind spot in this bunch. To hit six cyclists, one expects there must have been a huge error of judgement.

On Monday evening in Melbourne, a female cyclist was doored by a group of men getting out of a taxi. When the cyclist attempted to get the names of the men in order to report the accident, she was abused. She courageously pursued the men politely requesting their details, only to be mocked and finally ignored.

Meanwhile, footage has emerged from Brisbane showing a cyclist waiting in the left lane at a red light. An Audi comes up behind him and stops. When the light turns green, the cyclist takes off and a few seconds later is knocked to the ground from behind by the Audi. There is no question that the driver of the Audi did not see the cyclist.

One thing is certain. Too many cyclists are being injured or killed on our roads. If this many citizens were killed in a single plane crash, there would be a coronial investigation and extensive media attention directed to the likely causes. When the cause of the incident was verified, the government would enact legislation that would prevent or minimise a repeat of the accident.

There is already substantial evidence on the causes of most accidents involving cars and bicycles. That evidence overwhelmingly points to mistakes on the part of motorists in the vast majority of cases. Legislation therefore should be directed at the cause of these accidents – the motorists. We look to the Queensland legislationto encourage other governments to act for the safety of all concerned.

And yet when cyclists die or are injured, there is hand-wringing from one side and a storm of anti-cyclist abuse from the other. Sadly, it’s not only trolls who indulge in cyclist-bashing. It’s as if the donning of lycra means we cyclists can be demonised by a section of the public as somehow less human. We are portrayed as selfish road warriors - not fathers, sons, mothers, daughters.

Everyone can cite the rogue cyclist who disobeys the road rules. It’s as if that one maverick steals every law-abiding cyclist’s right to safe passage. Suddenly there are irrational calls for bike registration so the rogue can be identified. Yeah, right. How many of us turn up to the local police station after we’ve witnessed a bloke in a BMW run a red light or a young woman driving a Barina while texting. “Officer, I have her number plate, you must charge her!” You’d be laughed out of the police station.

The “us and them” argument demeans us as human beings. The accident in Sydney on Sunday will leave emotional and physical scars: not just for the cyclists involved, but also for the motorist in question. While apparently uninjured, he may bear the guilt and the nightmares of what occured on a suburban street for years to come.

Without suitable infrastructure, without appropriate government legislation, we are all losers. We potentially lose our mobility; our sense of freedom; our right to safe passage; our alternative to a bumper-to-bumper commute; our enjoyment of a healthy pursuit.

It’s time respective state governments began to invest in providing appropriate cycling lanes to service established commuter corridors. It’s time all state governments followed the lead of the Queensland parliament and enacted legislation requiring drivers to leave at least one metre of space when overtaking cyclists.

It’s time the Australian commuting public were offered alternatives to the one-passenger-per-vehicle madness of our current road network. More bike lanes means an increased numbers of cyclists and commuters which naturally leads to fewer cars on our roads and less congestion. Everyone’s a winner. If there was suitable infrastructure in place along this regular cycling route in Sydney, we can be confident six cyclists would have arrived home to spend the rest of the weekend with their families.

To enact “a-metre-matters” legislation at least addresses one known cause of many accidents between bikes and cars. A simple act to enforce the rights cyclists have to safe passage. It’s not an instant fix, but it is the first stage on a re-education program for we motorists.

It’s certainly better than having to watch video footage treating cyclists as nothing more than annoying obstacles to dangerous drivers and passengers.

[valvelover]

I'll tell you what - pay for a licence to ride on the road, and for bike registration.  Then I'll be happy.  Until then, as far as I'm concerned, all bikes should be off the damn road.

 

I've seen enough jack ass bike riders to know that most of you ride like maniacal idiots, no better than most drivers on the roads I do admit.  If I had it my way, 95% of car drivers would be off the road too.  

[proftournesol]

I'll tell you what - pay for a licence to ride on the road, and for bike registration.  Then I'll be happy.  Until then, as far as I'm concerned, all bikes should be off the damn road.

 

I've seen enough jack ass bike riders to know that most of you ride like maniacal idiots, no better than most drivers on the roads I do admit.  If I had it my way, 95% of car drivers would be off the road too.  

I have a licence. Are you happy now?

[Orpheus]

If you could get 95% of car drivers off the road (including all the angry ones who think bikes shouldn't be on the road; sorry Valvelover), I'd get on my bike.

[betty boop]

I'll tell you what - pay for a licence to ride on the road, and for bike registration.  Then I'll be happy.  Until then, as far as I'm concerned, all bikes should be off the damn road.

 

I've seen enough jack ass bike riders to know that most of you ride like maniacal idiots, no better than most drivers on the roads I do admit.  If I had it my way, 95% of car drivers would be off the road too.  

 

I dont know about others...but all the bike riders I know ...are also car drivers....including myself

[Jake]

I'll tell you what - pay for a licence to ride on the road, and for bike registration. Then I'll be happy. Until then, as far as I'm concerned, all bikes should be off the damn road.

I've seen enough jack ass bike riders to know that most of you ride like maniacal idiots, no better than most drivers on the roads I do admit. If I had it my way, 95% of car drivers would be off the road too.

Your complete lack of understanding of the issues at hand is remarkable, however your intolerance is not unusual.

You do realise that car registration does not pay your way onto the roads. These arguments are all old hat for us cyclists, "Get rego!!!" yada yada yada. Such a pointless request. So, what if we DID become registered vehicles? That would not change a thing, apart from wankers having to find something else to yell at us as they drive past.

Just remember Dave, the next time you are frustrated by someone in lycra, that they are someone's father/mother/son/daughter/husband/wife etc. They are people, usually just trying to better themselves with some fitness. Hardly a crime.

[proftournesol]

If paying for a licence seems to do nothing for the skill or aggression level of car drivers, what exactly are you hoping that it would achieve for bike riders?