Dangers of cycling

[Two Flies]

So you're driving at 80kmh in peak hour traffic, all 3 lanes but you're not leaving a safe 3 second buffer and you come across 2 cyclists riding at 40kmh yet it's the cyclists fault for being there? You're driving dangerously but the cyclists are to blame? How typical of a motorbike rider you are. Lycra set indeed. Pffft.

Like I said I ride a bike and I'm a motorcyclist there's now way I'd ride my push bike on some of Sydney's main 3 lane 80k arterial roads fact is I think it's just to dangerous and simply not worth the risk, if I did and got hit I'd expect little to no sympathy. BTW I'm a stickler for leaving a 3 second buffer, thing is I can't control what happens in front of me eg: I do my best to leave a 3 second buffer, more often than not an other motorists see that buffer as an invitation to jump in front of me.

Edited March 22, 2014 by MC240

[betty boop]

if theres one thing am totally aware is that we do not have any control on others on the roads...which is what makes things as dangerous as what they are. why cars have airbags and all manner of safety systems, crumple zones etc. none of which bikes do.

 

my car even has radar, and warns me if coming closer than safe distance taking speed into consideration. but yeah like mc doesnt stop people diving into the space infront on more than a regular basis.

 

look while we might go on about whose fault it is etc

 

its something I have thought about. especially after a close call riding the bike. and the only thing I could think off was if had come off second hand..while they scraped me off the road...I dont think it really matters whose fault it might have been. it really is of inconsequence when these things happen !  and these things do happen ! 

[mondie]

I'll tell you what - pay for a licence to ride on the road, and for bike registration.  Then I'll be happy.  Until then, as far as I'm concerned, all bikes should be off the damn road.

 

I've seen enough jack ass bike riders to know that most of you ride like maniacal idiots, no better than most drivers on the roads I do admit.  If I had it my way, 95% of car drivers would be off the road too.  

 

I bet <1% of bike riders dont hold a car licence so thats a strawman. Besides, if you need a licence to ride on the road what do we do about pedestrians?

 

Was never a big road rider but since moving to Scotland I never ride on the road. Fortunatley there are plnety of trails around here and some quiet country lanes but riding on the roads around here makes it look like childs play in Oz.

 

This argument will go round and round infinitum.

[betty boop]

scotland roads must be bad. reminds me of roads in the US. where there are no bike paths to speak off and the roads are death traps for bike riders. they are so icy and slippery and poor condition with pot holes and crevices. there was no choice but ride on the roads there and got flung off the bike twice fortunately not into traffic ! 

 

agree our roads are much better here, but thank goodness few more options here than to ride on the roads

[davidsss]

But if cyclists ride in the 'parking' lane then how would a car driver expect 'any' vehicles to commute in that lane?

 

When you park a car you can open your door and get out (within your lane).

 

Just wondering out loud.

 

I tend to agree, however, too many councils do not agree and create lanes such as this (sorry this is an international pic, couldn't find a local one):

 

 

Just exactly where do they expect the bicycle to go? I ride every day along a road with a lane very similar to this in Melbourne, I tend to refer to it as a car park masquerading as a bike lane.

 

The answer is more people riding bikes.

 

Only when the numbers are high enough will drivers start to expect them.

 

I also think decent bike lanes are important. The sort of bike lanes which physically separate the traffic from bikes. And they have to be wide enough to be attractive to use.

 

Yes, all the research shows that if you want to make it safer for cyclists you need more bikes on the road, this is proven to increase cyclist safety. Unlike helmet laws which have led to no better safety for cyclists. In fact, Australia has a very high rate of injuries for cyclists, much higher than many countries without mandatory helmet laws. I'll go further, the fact that more cyclists improves safety, and that mandatory helmet laws discourage cycling, suggests that mandatory helmet laws may make it less safe for cyclists.

 

As for bike lanes, be very careful what you wish for. Separated bike lanes are a great idea in theory but in practice are far more problematic than you may think. There is a new one going South along StKilda Rd over the road from the Arts Centre. This lane works beautifully because there are no driveways and no intersections. Once you have driveways and intersections the separated bike lane, because it is behind parked cars, makes cyclists invisible and the bike lane makes things more dangerous. The bike lanes in Swanston St North of town and in East Melbourne don't work for precisely these reasons. The bike lanes in the CBD in Sydney are very problematic because cyclists find that the light sequences are so appallingly bad for bikes they ride in the general traffic lanes so they can actually get from A to B in a decent amount of time. Intersections are critical for separated bike lanes and intersections are very badly implemented in Australia for bike lanes. In some countries the bikes get a decent design through an intersection and this is critical. The reality is that we're just not serious about catering for bikes in this country.

 

It's just a silly combination - bike rider doing way under the speed limit in the same lane as all the cars and trucks and buses. Sure you can argue it's a speed limit not a must do speed, but just because you want to take an hour to get where I can get in a car in 20 mins doesnt mean people want to sit behind you either. The speed difference is just too large and the size of car vs bike rider too great  to share a zone IMO. When I was in Germany, footpaths were double wide with half a bike zone the other half for those on foot. The road was for motor vehicles. Worked very well.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

 

Tell this to all the drivers I pass every day on the way to work. We're holding you up? Come on, cycle commuting is faster not slower. I'd challenge anyone to get from Elsternwick to Melbourne Uni in 40 minutes at peak hour in a car. It just ain't going to happen. I'm slower when the traffic is heavier because the bloody cars hold me up. Still, they have a right to use the roads I suppose, so I suck it up. You do realise sealed roads were originally built because of lobbying by cyclists? See http://www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/ In any case, road infrastructure is funded by my taxes and built for use by all road vehicles, a bicycle is a road vehicle.

 

That's because 'cyclists' flaunt the rules, and ride in between lanes of traffic, run red lights, ride along pathways, etc!

 

Some cyclists do flaunt the rules. However, before making a statement such as this it pays to know the rules. Rule 141 of the Australian Road Rules (minor variations to these in different states, not so much to this rule) gives bicyclists a specific exemption to the rule about not passing on the left. Bicycles are allowed to filter at lights, silly if the cars start moving though. As for pathways, it depends what sort of path and where. There are shared paths, in Queensland you can ride along a footpath and you can ride on footpaths in other states if under 12 or accompanying someone under 12.

 

Now, before we get on to the silliness of registering bikes or licensing cyclists I have one simple question: how will you fund this? Car registration (not compulsory third party insurance which is the bulk of the yearly bill for car owners) barely covers costs if at all, it is similar for drivers' licenses. Given the very large number of bicycles, the fact that a lot of cyclists are children and the fact many bikes are only ridden occasionally, the cost of rego and/or licenses would have to be set very low and would not cover the administrative costs of the scheme. So, who wants to increase taxes to fund this? Furthermore, it wouldn't make any difference. Have you noticed how licensed drivers in registered cars never break the road laws? No, neither have I. Ever tried to report a car breaking a road rule by informing the police of the rule broken and the registration of the car? Probably not, because you would get nowhere. Even with camera footage it is very hard to get the police to take action.

 

I do ride. I ride pretty much every day to work and I ride on roads. Yes there is a risk. However, the risk is very small (too small to be forced to wear a safety helmet - did you know that over 50% of head injuries on Australian roads are suffered by occupants of motor vehicles, this is the case even with seat belts, air bags, the protection of being in a car/truck/etc, why aren't occupants of motor vehicles forced to wear helmets, it would prevent a lot more head injuries than compulsory bicycle helmets) and with defensive cycling it is manageable. The risk would be even smaller if the morons driving cars (thankfully the morons are a small minority of car drivers) were willing to share the road with their fellow road users.

 

Roads are for road vehicles. Road vehicles include cars, trucks, vans and, yes, bicycles.

 

DS

Edited March 22, 2014 by davidsss

[joz]

Dave, any middle aged man in lycra needs to be penalised, bike licensing is just a great place to start.

I say make them pay double what motorists do just for their outfits.

[proftournesol]

That's because 'cyclists' flaunt the rules, and ride in between lanes of traffic, run red lights, ride along pathways, etc!

So why are they so much more aggressive to the minority of cyclists that flaunt the rules than their fellow drivers? I've been squirted with water pistols, had tacks thrown on the road in front of me, my wife's friend was literally kicked off her bike by a passing motorcyclist and broke her arm. I'm regularly verbally abused by cars driving past me when the only inconvenience to them is them deliberately choosing to slow down to abuse me when they ride past? This is a minority of drivers, I don't get angry and want collective punishment of all drivers and they don't deserve to be killed for the minority behaviour, however there are many drivers who believe that should happen to cyclists

[proftournesol]

Dave, any middle aged man in lycra needs to be penalised, bike licensing is just a great place to start.

I say make them pay double what motorists do just for their outfits.

I'd happily pay it rather than wear uncomfortable clothing

[joz]

Sorry Prof I think that was me with the water pistol, I knew it was you. :lol:

 

j/k

[proftournesol]

Sorry Prof I think that was me with the water pistol, I knew it was you. :lol:

 

j/k

The water pistol was filled with urine :mad:

[joz]

The water pistol was filled with urine :mad:

 

 

Oh that was me then...

 

 

 

 

 

 

joke

[emesbee]

So why are they so much more aggressive to the minority of cyclists that flaunt the rules than their fellow drivers? I've been squirted with water pistols, had tacks thrown on the road in front of me, my wife's friend was literally kicked off her bike by a passing motorcyclist and broke her arm. I'm regularly verbally abused by cars driving past me when the only inconvenience to them is them deliberately choosing to slow down to abuse me when they ride past? This is a minority of drivers, I don't get angry and want collective punishment of all drivers and they don't deserve to be killed for the minority behaviour, however there are many drivers who believe that should happen to cyclists

 

Somebody once threw a beer bottle at me from a passing car, just for the hell of it. Luckily it smashed on the road in front of me, and no damage was done. There are some real morons out there.

[emesbee]

The water pistol was filled with urine :mad:

 

Somebody taking the piss? Just wondering how you managed to fill it, water pistols usually have very small holes for refilling........ oh, I see.

[Addicted to music]

So why are they so much more aggressive to the minority of cyclists that flaunt the rules than their fellow drivers? I've been squirted with water pistols, had tacks thrown on the road in front of me, my wife's friend was literally kicked off her bike by a passing motorcyclist and broke her arm. I'm regularly verbally abused by cars driving past me when the only inconvenience to them is them deliberately choosing to slow down to abuse me when they ride past? This is a minority of drivers, I don't get angry and want collective punishment of all drivers and they don't deserve to be killed for the minority behaviour, however there are many drivers who believe that should happen to cyclists

When I was at high school I had no choice but to ride a bike to and from school. I was constantly abused on the road, had all sorts of rubbish thrown at me by drivers, people didn't care if you were there, got cut off so many times by drivers facing a stop or give way sign because simply they didn't see you! A couple of stages I road on the footpaths on streets I knew were dangerous for a bike but then I got pulled over by police that riding on the footpath was illegal! As a kid going from 12 to 18, I got a taste what human society was like head on, all for riding a bike to get from point A to B in school uniform to get to school and back.....

[alittlewino]

Somebody once threw a beer bottle at me from a passing car, just for the hell of it. ……………..

 

had the same except it hit the top bar and glass shattered everywhere - no injury though

 

75kms this morning and good to see the new 1.5m rule in action for >60 speed posted except for the one d…head who swooped past me at about 0.5m even though I'm in a bike lane

 

earlier I posted about idiot /angry cyclists - went past a flat bar with a big bloke with splayed duck knees taking up a whole cycling lane - gave him the 1m space as required now for cars passing and got abused for not warning him - angry man probbly has a car licence so god help us

 

tried to drop this older fellow riding with tri bars and at 38km/h into the wind couldn't - then I am a recreational cyclist and chatting to find out he's the under 70 Qld champion and about to turn 70 - I felt better especially as I only ride roads on Sunday

 

the 40km/h section at Bracken Ridge is a shocker - bike unfriendly, tight and nobody does 40clicks - and the sharp stones strewn across the construction turn outs and for some distance either side in the bike lane beggars belief 

 

best of all, enjoyed it and survived

[betty boop]

there are a lot of idiot bike riders too which am sure give car only drivers the irits.

 

jogging on a shared path this morning, a road bike goes wizzing past me at prob 60 km/h as quite a down hill section, flying straight into what is a blind corner. doesnt even ring his bell of anything what if he went around the corner to be confronted with some little kids on some bikes or someone walking their dog? doesnt even ring a bell as any warning. would have had no hope of evasive action or let alone stopping without cleanign everyone up ! 

 

people must have very little idea of what their capabilities  are or perception of possible hazards they create and risks theyre taking.

 

thats the problem these idiots...whether they are riding or on a car is probably not the issue.

[proftournesol]

Somebody taking the piss? Just wondering how you managed to fill it, water pistols usually have very small holes for refilling........ oh, I see.

angry man, small dick (of course it couldn't have been you then joz)

[joz]

angry man, small dick (of course it couldn't have been you then joz)

 

Nup I pea into a cup first, I got sick having it gush all over my fingers.(eeeuuuwww!)

[Freedom]

So why are they so much more aggressive to the minority of cyclists that flaunt the rules than their fellow drivers? I've been squirted with water pistols, had tacks thrown on the road in front of me, my wife's friend was literally kicked off her bike by a passing motorcyclist and broke her arm. I'm regularly verbally abused by cars driving past me when the only inconvenience to them is them deliberately choosing to slow down to abuse me when they ride past? This is a minority of drivers, I don't get angry and want collective punishment of all drivers and they don't deserve to be killed for the minority behaviour, however there are many drivers who believe that should happen to cyclists

 

Got me there!

 

I'm only talking from a 'drivers' perspective. When I see a cyclist ride up the middle of two lanes of traffic at a set of lights (after I have perilously overtaken the same cyclist down the road), then  I have to 'again' perilously try and overtake the cyclist, and that's after the 'cyclist' has run a red light to get a jump on the traffic, yeh that get's frustrating. And the big problem is trying to overtake a commuter travelling at around a third of the speed of the traffic flow! There is a reason why a 'car' driver can be booked by the authorities for driving 'too slow', and that's because it can create a 'hazard'!

 

Also when there are two or more cyclists riding 'abreast', that can be even more dangerous. It looks like a form of arrogance to me! Making it as hard as possible for a car to overtake the group!

 

I know why I 'don't' ride on the roads unless I have to.

[proftournesol]

Its legal for cyclists to ride 2 abreast except where there is double lines. Like I said before I think that we all need to be more considerate no matter what type of vehicle but many motorists believe in the collective punishment of all cyclists - all cyclists deserve to be knocked off their bikes because a few behave badly, all cyclists in lycra 'deserve what they get' because a few behave badly.

 

You may be inconvenienced for a minute overtaking a bike but you'll make that time up again quickly in a car at no physical effort to yourself, nobody on a bike deserves death or serious injury because they or another cyclist in the past delayed you for a minute during a car journey.

[Freedom]

You may be inconvenienced for a minute overtaking a bike but you'll make that time up again quickly in a car at no physical effort to yourself, nobody on a bike deserves death or serious injury because they or another cyclist in the past delayed you for a minute during a car journey.

 

It's NOT about the 'inconvenience' (for me), it's the hazard of actually trying to overtake a cyclist on a multi-laned road safely!

[proftournesol]

It's NOT about the 'inconvenience' (for me), it's the hazard of actually trying to overtake a cyclist on a multi-laned road safely!

What is so difficult about changing lanes?

[Freedom]

What is so difficult about changing lanes?

 

It's not so difficult........unless it's 'peak' hour and the traffic is heavy!

[CryptiK]

You often can't especially in peak hour traffic. I see it daily. Those stuck behind the cyclist wait and wait and wait or are forced to squeeze into a gap in the right lane you ideally wouldn't be trying to squeeze into causing a lot of near misses for the motorists. We pay for cars with high purchase price, high ongoing costs, registration, insurance, tolls - so we can get where we need to go as swiftly as possible. I make appointments with clients based on estimate commute times. Google maps doesn't have a 'stuck behind slow ass cyclist' option to check so I can re-estimate my travel time. Having the decision to take far longer to get somewhere or risk an accident to pass a road hazard (cyclist) is not a decision I want made for me by someone who pays nothing to use the same road.

[proftournesol]

Sure, read the road ahead, merge, other drivers also need to be more courteous. From the cyclist's perspective, just try riding towards the left of the lane and most cars won't leave you any room at all, often don't even think about pushing you into the gutter, its dangerous to ride towards the left of the lane. 

Besides, I'm sure that you can make up the time, I always do