3 Way Eliptrac Horn Klipsch La Scalas

[Full Range]

You know by that pic your cm away from hardwiring

Ahh I see what you mean

But not for long as the frame will cover those terminal posts

I have made a short list of the final position

1) On top as they are now

2) Place on wall as industrial art pieces, as suggested by @greenwagon

[henry218]

  

I would have hardwired if the crossovers were internal

Furthermore all the internal connections are hardwired from driver to connector

But what I have devised is next best thing for a secure and solid connection to the external crossover

Cheers

don't worry about it Paul, it really doesn't matter that much anyway , its just that you have some exotic parts already, i just thought that the binding post should be at least $20/pair

[Full Range]

don't worry about it Paul, it really doesn't matter that much anyway , its just that you have some exotic parts already, i just thought that the binding post should be at least $20/pair

Close

They were $16 pair form speaker bug http://speakerbug.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=233

Love the build quality and the fact that it has a free spinning washer to enhance its gorilla grip when tightening It gives me confidence that nothing will come loose

[faxcomp]

Phenomenal build FR

                                  I was going to post a build of my LaScalas, but now I'd be too embarrassed.

 

Loved some of the tweaks you did in regards to the foam and insulation.

 

Can you please tell me what that insulation was and where to get it??

 

You can squeeze a hell of a lot of sound quality out of the LaScalas.

 

Someone said on the first page (can't remember who and too lazy to look) said that LaScalas already sound great.

 

This of course is far from the truth. The metal horn alone would send shivers up most peoples spine, and long listening sessions were out of the question.

 

An upgraded LaScala is another beast all together, and really should be listened to by anyone who has not heard horn speakers, but who thinks that horn speakers are too large and sound harsh.

 

LaScalas are as big as many normal sized speakers (well, mine are any-ways as I have no external boxes) but are smooth and exciting both at the same time.

 

Great Jazz music with smooth rhythm can quite easily send you to sleep on the couch.

 

Great work Full Range.

[Full Range]

Phenomenal build FR

                                  I was going to post a build of my LaScalas, but now I'd be too embarrassed.

 

Loved some of the tweaks you did in regards to the foam and insulation.

 

Can you please tell me what that insulation was and where to get it??

 

You can squeeze a hell of a lot of sound quality out of the LaScalas.

 

Someone said on the first page (can't remember who and too lazy to look) said that LaScalas already sound great.

 

This of course is far from the truth. The metal horn alone would send shivers up most peoples spine, and long listening sessions were out of the question.

 

An upgraded LaScala is another beast all together, and really should be listened to by anyone who has not heard horn speakers, but who thinks that horn speakers are too large and sound harsh.

 

LaScalas are as big as many normal sized speakers (well, mine are any-ways as I have no external boxes) but are smooth and exciting both at the same time.

 

Great Jazz music with smooth rhythm can quite easily send you to sleep on the couch.

 

Great work Full Range.

Thank you @@faxcomp

We'll I'm in my personal heaven when listening to them

Now to your query on insulation

No insulation is used in the dog box section

And only minimal insulation is used in the bass reflex extension cabinet

The insulation used is common in the commercial air conditioner industry and is used to quieten down motor rooms. It's also self adhesive

[henry218]

Thank you @@faxcomp

We'll I'm in my personal heaven when listening to them

Now to your query on insulation

No insulation is used in the dog box section

And only minimal insulation is used in the bass reflex extension cabinet

The insulation used is common in the commercial air conditioner industry and is used to quieten down motor rooms. It's also self adhesive

image.jpgimage.jpg

i actually am going to ask you where did u get that insulation sheets if they come with thicker and higher desnsity? it look really good.

[Full Range]

i actually am going to ask you where did u get that insulation sheets if they come with thicker and higher desnsity? it look really good.

Henry, I am fortunate that I have a friend that works in the air conditioner industry and got some off cuts for free

If by any chance they don't come thicker you can double up and stick two together

I have done that in a previous cabinet build

There are two types one is lined with Kevlar and the other with flexible foil

Both can be peeled off if required

Edited May 28, 2014 by Full Range

[henry218]

Ah ok. it looks really good and great for wrappings the caps too

[Malcolm]

Henry, I am fortunate that I have a friend that works in the air conditioner industry and got some off cuts for free

 

You lucky bugger . I've been eyeing off the dampening material they use around the airlock ducts at work .

[faxcomp]

It just goes to show that there is plenty of alternative materials out there that are probably quite cheap and just as good.

 

Say it's for home audio though, and someone will whack a 1000% mark-up on it.

[Full Range]

The resistors have landed

Now the work needs to be scheduled in for the changeover

In the meantime I have forgoten to add in my above post that I also elected to include some

Vishay Capasitors - 0.01UF, 160V to be used as vibration absorbers when applied on the large main Capasitors

They are currently in transit ( so I wait on there arrival )

[Green Wagon]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

So today I duly trotted of to FR's abode to wield the welder.

First a listen with everything as is.

Then swap out the resistors. Thinking to myself, meh, not my cup of tea, but it's what he wants, so do the swap over.

All the resistors are parallel shunts across inductors, I can't see any reason these would have any effect.

I can't put my finger on it, but it made an improvement. For the better.

A subtle smoothing of everything. More, coherent.

 

After some coffee, food and music, the mail man delivered a parcel.

Vishay 1837 0.01uF 160v foil capacitors.

 

Ooooookay, lets throw these in.

Told FR I can understand why these might make a difference (shunting internal inductance of the parent capacitor), but didn't think it would make an audible difference.

Lets face it, his Jantzen Supremes are already double wound to cancel internal inductance.

 

Anyway, did one xover (5 bypass's in total), couldn't tell if there was any difference.

Said, well maybe we can't hear anything because its 'blending' with the other un capped speaker.

Did the other speaker.

And, well, OK, dammit, it does make a difference, again for the better, and more obvious than the resistors.

One violin piece, not only could we hear the way he/she was hitting the bow against the strings, but we could also tell they were dragging the bow across at the same time.

The violin became, clearer, more distinct from the background.

 

At that point I gave up resisting, packed up my stuff and left him to it.

So I'm sure as FR gets re re re re acquainted with his speakers, he will post pics and his thoughts in due course.

 

I firmly put my hand up as a skeptic of cables, coils, resistors, and capacitors etc making any real difference.

BUT, after what I've experienced with FR's speakers, I now lower my hand.

Slap me hard with a frozen trout, but they have all made a difference. For the better.

 

The capacitors, the resistors, the bypass capacitors, everything.

I cannot understand how, but every change has tweaked his system further than what I thought possible.

 

Only thing left to arrive are some Jantzen wax inductors for the mid and tweeter signal path.

I don't know if his speakers can be improve upon further, but some how I think they will again.........

[steve u]

Nice write up, good team work.

[Full Range]

That violin that @greenwagon mentioned gave me tingles in on my skin & spine

A nice feeling listening to - at near perfection in sound

I will evaluate with an uninterrupted session tomorrow

I suppose that I should post some photos of the upgrades

These resistors were removed

And replaced with Pathaudio and Mills resistors

Also replaced a standard Resistor for the Duelund that is in the beginning of the signal path

And then the postman delivered the Vishay caps

So what would any audiophile do in such a situation

Get the soldering iron out and fit them

[Green Wagon]

Nice write up, good team work.

 

Thank you Steve.

As someone who barely scraped through grade 12, I have no idea where this writing flare has come from.

Never dun had know leanins that way bifore.

 

As FR changes little bits here and there, it's been an awesome learning curve to try one thing, and validate the validity of the change (Haaaaa, i is usin big words).

I know FR is a bit of a night owl, so I wonder if Mrs FR will get much sleep tonight.

I know with what I was hearing just before I scampered this arv, I would have a hideous time NOT listening all night.

Even if I had to turn the volume right down and stick my head between repositioned cabinets, ala 'huge headphones'.

 

Tonight will be torture for him.

 

I can understand and accept the reasoning behind the capacitors, the bypass capacitors, and the inductors making a difference.

But the change that has me most baffled, are the resistors.

There not in the signal path. They are across shunt inductors and the windings of the attenuator transformers.

Their, logically, should be absolutely no measurable or even sonic difference.

And yet, they have improved the sound. A small, but still perceptible improvement over what I would consider already fairly high grade metal film parts.

I think that unexplained conundrum will bug me till I die.

 

Unless someone here wishes to put forward their thoughts on wtf is going on

[Newman]

Maybe look up some of the threads about placebo effects, blind testing etc, GW. It would be repetition and OT to start it over in this thread. See you in about 3 months -- eyes spinning!

[davewantsmoore]

should be absolutely no measurable or even sonic difference.

 

So .... was there a measurable difference in the acoustic output of the speaker?   (Hint:  If it sounded different then there WAS)

 

 

Working backwards from the evidence is the way to attack this.   Once you have quantified the change, you will be able to shuffle towards an answer.

[Newman]

(Hint:  If it sounded different then there WAS)

 

Unless he only thought it sounded different....

 

Been there etc

[davewantsmoore]

Maybe look up some of the threads about placebo effects, blind testing etc, GW. It would be repetition and OT to start it over in this thread. See you in about 3 months -- eyes spinning!

 

Don't get consumed by this sideshow.

 

 

 

Learn how to prove to yourself if what you hear is placebo or not.   Newman is right to suggest (if he is) that you are likely to be hearing things  (it's nothing personal, just a very widely noted observation) .....  but there is a practical way to proceed.

 

Unfortunately there is a widely held belief that ....  "the things that we cannot measure" ..... prevent practical analysis.     Surely there are things we cannot measure.   Does that matter? .... No..... We don't have to prove this either way to know that there are some important things at play here that can help you.

 

• If you are able to measure a difference in the acoustic output of the speaker.... then it is possible to demonstrate that this is what was responsible for what you heard  (rather than it being in your head)

 

• If you are able to quantify the difference in the sound, then this may lead to understanding the cause.... or often more importantly, ruling out potential causes which don't fit the evidence.

 

• It is a powerful data point to also be able to measure NO difference in the sound  (you must however be careful to validate your measurement technique) ...  as it leads to the certainty that the cause it either with you .... or it is with aspects of the playback which you have not yet analysed.

[Full Range]

Maybe look up some of the threads about placebo effects, blind testing etc, GW. It would be repetition and OT to start it over in this thread. See you in about 3 months -- eyes spinning!

  

So .... was there a measurable difference in the acoustic output of the speaker?   (Hint:  If it sounded different then there WAS)

 

 

Working backwards from the evidence is the way to attack this.   Once you have quantified the change, you will be able to shuffle towards an answer.

I am going to be a little blunt in my answer

As everyone has had a different life experience they view the world differently and what one likes may be something another dislikes

Question ? why is a Stradivarius violin so loved

The maker had only his senses to (and I don't mean just hearing) make and tune that instrument

I myself as a mechanical engineer have tuned machinery using all my senses to produce optimum results and the amazing thing is when my tuning was hooked up to the machinery for final calibration and confirmation I was spot on 98% of the time

I am trying to achieve a feeling from my system that I like

And yes I will agree that the results that the tweaks so far may just be that the music "might be a little different" but my senses like the different changes better

When @greenwagon and I note changes for better or worse we note them down privately and then compare so our opinions don't influence the others

One example of the changes I have noticed is

Normally I can switch my attention to a conversation and filter out the music as most people can, that is now hard to impossible to switch my attention as the music my system just holds on and it's hard to let go

I don't discount instrumentation to measure and I believe that it's vital for raw data

But what measuring equipment measures - feelings, enjoyment, well-being, and depending on the music - love, hate, amazement ect

However I respect that everyone has differing tastes and opinions and what rocks my boat may not be another's cup of tea

So I leave you hall to ponder while my system envelops me in a musical sensual joy

[Newman]

Definitely, FR. That's why I suggested GW pursue off-thread the answers to his questions, about rationale for changes in type (not value) of resistors not in signal path causing a change in perceived sound quality.

[davewantsmoore]

All I am saying is that if you want to attempt to determine if changes are real  (and more importantly what they are) ... then there's a way.

 

If you don't want to do that.... then that's ok.

 

 

I don't discount instrumentation to measure and I believe that it's vital for raw data
But what measuring equipment measures - feelings, enjoyment, well-being, and depending on the music - love, hate, amazement ect

 

These things are not part of the output signal..... they are part of the input signal.

 

You are right that we cannot measure these things objectively.....    We cannot measure these things ( feelings, enjoyment, well-being)  but we don't need to.     Artists need to be able to "measure" these things  (and that is what being an artist is all about of course).

 

 

 

In a playback system, assuming the we want to hear those things that the artists has put there.... then we need to make the output signal more like the input signal.

 

At the risk of sounding arrogant.   Anyone who disagrees with the above hasn't (ever successfully) made the output signal more like the input signal ....   The difference is more than obvious.     What we can measure certainly does correlate with playback quality.

 

 

 

However I respect that everyone has differing tastes and opinions and what rocks my boat may not be another's cup of tea

 

IME everyone agrees on real true significant improvements to a playback system.

 

... where people have the differing opinions is when we have a few different systems, which all have significant flaws.    Which flaw you like the most (or least) depends on your taste and program material.

 

 

 

 So I leave you hall to ponder while my system envelops me in a musical sensual joy

 

At the risk of ignoring your sarcasm....      Even modest amounts of high efficiency and controlled directivity will do that.   :thumbsup:

 

Expensive components and fancy methods do not compensate for the basics being MIA.

[Newman]

I am going to be a little blunt in my answer

I am trying to achieve a feeling from my system that I like

And yes I will agree that the results that the tweaks so far may just be that the music "might be a little different" but my senses like the different changes better

 

I am like this too FR. And it is fully justified IMHO. Been enjoying this thread of yours a lot, keep it up please.

[Green Wagon]

Bit busy right now, so ill come back and read the replies later.

 

But suffice to say, im old enough and ugly enough that i no longer give a rats what anyone else thinks.

Im just going to call a spade a fkn shovel and screw what anyone else wants to call it.

 

ive seen, and heard, and experienced things that would have me burnt at the stake for being a witch not too many years ago.

others call them, delusions.

I call them, MY truths.

 

No, im not upset or angry or anything like that. <-- cause i know its hard to tell emotion from typed words..

 

But please do read where i said IM A SKEPTIC........

 

Thank you, and later gater

[Newman]

Former skeptic.... man down!