Electrocompaniet Owners Thread

[mbz]

14 hours ago, rockeater said:

Are you guys talking about their original 25 watter or the later 100W unit which was still single ended and without the FTT?

Oooops, "typo" on my part. I've got the preampliwire 1a, I can only afford vintage. It's probably an early incarnation and the ugly duckling of the EC line up. However after getting it going I thought it sounded quite good with good sound stage and presence, it seemed to be lacking some high end detail which I later read might be attributed to the "removal" of third order harmonics, in any case I will make a solid effort to repair the current problem. I've got a yamaha CX-1000 which provides the high end detail, the EC would be nice for non-fatigue listening.

[kdoot]

Well I took a punt yesterday and based on nothing but specs and sparse reviews became at least the fourth owner of EC 4.7 pre-amp serial 100583. It’s my first Electrocompaniet experience and in fact my first ever pre-amplifier, having lived the “best pre is no pre” lifestyle for close to ten years with DACs directly into power amps, and integrated amps prior to that.

 

24 hours in, I’m loving it – even though I don’t yet have a second set of balanced interconnects to go from the pre to my power amp. There’s just more music here now, more depth in soundstage, more movement of the air in the room, like my 8” woofers just became a few inches bigger or something. I’ve lost a bit of resolution, detail and top end, but I expect to get at least some of that back when the second set of balanced cables are in place. Will let it settle in for a couple of weeks and then do some more focused comparisons.

 

I didn’t “choose” Electrocompaniet. It’s just the first pre-amp I came across after ages and ages of searching that was fully balanced, fully solid state, with better input and output impedance matching than my DAC-to-power-amp connection, of sufficient reputation for audio quality and at a price I was willing to experiment with. Interestingly, some of those criteria would actually rule out the 4.8 and the 4.5. 

 

If only the frickin front fascia was 1mm narrower so it would fit into my cabinet. Ah well, can’t have everything!

[H.E. Pennypacker]

15 minutes ago, kdoot said:

Well I took a punt yesterday and based on nothing but specs and sparse reviews became at least the fourth owner of EC 4.7 pre-amp serial 100583. It’s my first Electrocompaniet experience and in fact my first ever pre-amplifier, having lived the “best pre is no pre” lifestyle for close to ten years with DACs directly into power amps, and integrated amps prior to that.

 

24 hours in, I’m loving it – even though I don’t yet have a second set of balanced interconnects to go from the pre to my power amp. There’s just more music here now, more depth in soundstage, more movement of the air in the room, like my 8” woofers just became a few inches bigger or something. I’ve lost a bit of resolution, detail and top end, but I expect to get at least some of that back when the second set of balanced cables are in place. Will let it settle in for a couple of weeks and then do some more focused comparisons.

 

I didn’t “choose” Electrocompaniet. It’s just the first pre-amp I came across after ages and ages of searching that was fully balanced, fully solid state, with better input and output impedance matching than my DAC-to-power-amp connection, of sufficient reputation for audio quality and at a price I was willing to experiment with. Interestingly, some of those criteria would actually rule out the 4.8 and the 4.5. 

 

If only the frickin front fascia was 1mm narrower so it would fit into my cabinet. Ah well, can’t have everything!

I’m pretty sure it was previously mine (I saw the sale).

 

I bought it from Tivoli about 12 months ago after a full refurb Including a new volume pot. It was a trade in from the original owner.

 

Enjoy! 

Edited December 30, 2019 by furtherpale

[kdoot]

So what are you using today, FP? I looked through your post history but couldn’t find the answer to that. Why did you sell the 4.7?

[H.E. Pennypacker]

9 minutes ago, kdoot said:

So what are you using today, FP? I looked through your post history but couldn’t find the answer to that. Why did you sell the 4.7?

I was using the 4.7 with an AW100DMB (which has a new home in Bathurst).

 

I moved it mostly for a change and got a Luxman L-590axii. I had Krell before the EC, and the Luxman is (sort of) halfway in between Krell’s pinpoint detail (but a bit lacking in soul) and EC’s tube-ish mid range heaven (but not as detailed - as you mentioned). The trade off in the Luxman of course is that it’s not as lush as EC, and not as detailed as Krell... but it suits me!

[rockeater]

5 hours ago, kdoot said:

I’ve lost a bit of resolution, detail and top end, but I expect to get at least some of that back when the second set of balanced cables are in place.

You will.

 

5 hours ago, kdoot said:

If only the frickin front fascia was 1mm narrower so it would fit into my cabinet. Ah well, can’t have everything!

I do not know why they are so wide.

I wanted to put my newly acquired 20 Anniversary edition EC-4 /W-100DMB with marble fascias into the rack and neither will fit.

 

Do not stack EC stuff one on top of another.  They do interfere with each other.

[kdoot]

28 minutes ago, rockeater said:

Do not stack EC stuff one on top of another

I only have the one EC item, but I have zero options about where to put it:

 

[rockeater]

2 minutes ago, kdoot said:

I only have the one EC item, but I have zero options about where to put it:

But there is a bit of a gap there.

They do not like to be put directly one on top of another.

EC power amps have huge transformers and and at high volume current approaches 100 Amps.

[audio_file]

Does anyone know when the Electrocompaniet ECI 80D is ever going to get to Australia?

[H.E. Pennypacker]

15 minutes ago, audio_file said:

Does anyone know when the Electrocompaniet ECI 80D is ever going to get to Australia?

@Tivoli Hi-Fi should know.

[Tivoli Hi-Fi]

On 31/12/2019 at 2:25 PM, audio_file said:

Does anyone know when the Electrocompaniet ECI 80D is ever going to get to Australia?

Hopefully sometime this month!

 

 

[kdoot]

New set of balanced interconnects now linking the EC4.7 to my power amp. Holy wow this sounds beautiful. 

[punkterfuge]

Yeah, Running balanced with EC makes a massive difference, so much clearer with more detail amongst a black background. I ran an aw-60ftt for years single ended with a valve pre. I then changed to a balanced SS pre & couldn't believe it was the same amp. I've since upgraded to EC monoblocks & their higher end power Amps don't even have rca inputs - for good reason! Enjoy! 

[rockeater]

1 minute ago, punkterfuge said:

Yeah, Running balanced with EC makes a massive difference, so much clearer with more detail amongst a black background. I ran an aw-60ftt for years single ended with a valve pre. I then changed to a balanced SS pre & couldn't believe it was the same amp.

That is because it is a proper dual differential, balanced amp.

Unlike some others which merely have XLR connector slapped on.

I had the same experience in 1999 when I connected EC-4 to AW-100DMB. Just could not believe the difference.

Then I went out and bought Rotel RCD-991 CD player which was then the cheapest balanced out unit on the market. It made no difference at all how it was connected.

It was a very well made machine, full of expensive audiophile grade components. Only years later when I managed to get circuit diagram, I have found it was really a single ended design with op-amp inverting the signal just prior to XLR connector.

Cheers

Roman

[Tivoli Hi-Fi]

On 31/12/2019 at 2:25 PM, audio_file said:

Does anyone know when the Electrocompaniet ECI 80D is ever going to get to Australia?

Our first shipment of ECi-80's has arrived!

 

[punkterfuge]

My ECD-1 Dac has just died and I will take it in for repair soon, one of the channels in balanced mode got quieter and then the whole thing lost power, so it's probably more than a fuse.  Does anyone know of any not too complicated mods I might get done whilst I'm there? Maybe replacing the clock or caps in the output stage etc.  

 

know that empirical audio used to do a heavily modified version of it including: 

Replace 12 rectifiers with FRED's
Upgrade the bulk decoupling caps to Black Gates
Upgrade and add high-frequency decoupling caps to analog section
Improve power delivery to DAC chip
Improve DAC PLL filtering
Rewire long analog signal traces with Perfect Crystal Silver wire in
Teflon
Eliminate the hum
Improve the post-DAC analog filtering
Replace the input selector with a low-impedance chip
Match the input impedance to 75 ohms
Add high-performance pulse transformers
Optional modded Superclock2
Optional modded SuperTurboclock2

 

Taken from here: 

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=11396.0

 

I don't really want to change it too much as I like the sound, it's really lush and full-bodied at the expense of not being super detailed and transparent.  But it does get lost complex orchestral pieces sometimes.  

Any comments would be appreciated.  Cheers.  

[rockeater]

6 hours ago, punkterfuge said:

Does anyone know of any not too complicated mods I might get done whilst I'm there?

My suggestion is to do none of those or any other mods.

I have this unit and I bought it, for it is a DAC section from the EMC-1UP CD player, sound of which I really loved.

 

For starters, all of these mods are invented to catch unaware audiophiles.

If these people are so clever, why don't they build a DAC themselves and see how they go.

EC gear has beautiful sound but it is based on solid engineering, not on jewellery (as Lampizator calls all these "improvements").

They could have done them at factory (but the last 3) for a total of $10 extra if they thought they were going to bring any sonic benefit.

 

All of the parts up to the last 3 are cheap (maybe without Black Gates) and they would take maybe 3 hours of work including taking it apart and putting it back together.

They would probably charge you a grand or more to do them all for no net gain. Rubycon Black Gates are used where long term reliability is called upon and where the cap has to work at high temperatures. Like in Class A power amps, or in a location close to voltage regulators etc. Or where a manufacturer wants to lodge a claim of a higher class than the circuit and brand name would suggest (like Rotel). None of that is a case here with ECD-1.

 

The last three mods from the list - as are the rectifiers (# 1) - are totally unnecessary under any stretch of imagination.

This is a DAC, not a power amp and its current consumption is a steady 10 or maybe 15 watts. It is like fitting set of racing tyres and modding a suspension on a trailer you use to dispose of garden clippings.

Eliminate the hum? What hum? I can turn my system fully up and need to put a ear next to a tweeter to hear the faintest of hiss. Move your head away ten inches away and the system is dead silent (the rest being EC-4 / AW-100DMB).

 

As a guess, I would think that all you need to do is to replace output relay and the sound would return to normal. I would replace both while at it, so that there is no issues for years to come.

$2 each if bought wholesale. EC have moved away from MillionSpot relays of which I replaced quite a few and these are much more reliable. But as any mechanical device are still subject to failure.

 

Cheers

Roman

Edited January 10, 2020 by rockeater

[punkterfuge]

16 hours ago, rockeater said:

My suggestion is to do none of those or any other mods.

 

As a guess, I would think that all you need to do is to replace output relay and the sound would return to normal. I would replace both while at it, so that there is no issues for years to come.

 

Hi Roman, 

 

Thanks for your response, I tend to agree that these do seem unnecessary and you would know! I would rather just get a new dac if I wanted a completely different sound and I have never heard any hum either.  I know that EC used to do upgrades and wondered if there were any for this dac? as I know that there was one for the EMC and for their amps they used to upgrade the rectifier diodes and output transistors etc.  So you don't think replacing the clock would lower jitter and clean up the signal? This seems to be a common mod in most cd players/dacs.  

 

Thanks for your comment about the output relays too, I'll let Tony know when I take it to him, was there a particular replacement you would recommend?

 

Cheers

Andre

[Sevoman]

On 07/11/2019 at 2:38 AM, nicksyl1 said:

Hi to all Electrocompaniet owners.

I have lived with my EC4.7 and AW120DMB amplifiers for a while now have come to realise that the opinion that Electrocompaniet has  tube like sound may very well be true, which is a pity as my B&W DM6 speakers are more suited to solid state amplification.

 

Following on from this I am asking for advice regarding speakers to complement the EC signature sound. I prefer a lively sound and well reproduced vocals.

 

If anyone has an opinion, I would be most interested.

 

Thanks.

Sorry to be late responding to your question. I am a major EC fan and a tragic for Sonus Faber. The combination is a match made in heaven. I have SF Olympica 1 connected to my AW120, and SF Amati Homage with my AW 400 monoblocks. Balanced connections from top to bottom of my system. The sound is warm and very easy to live with. I suspect that Focal  and B&W speakers would also be good, but only hifi store listening to back up the claim. 

I am surprised that EC has not maintained a higher profile in Australia. They do well in Europe. They are under new management now and have started to lift their game with updated models and a new integrated amplifier.

 

[punkterfuge]

Does anyone know if the end of these speaker binding posts come of or something so I can use banana plugs? I’ve been using bare wire but have changed cables now. It’s an AW-60ftt. @rockeater have you seen these posts before? 

[rockeater]

2 hours ago, punkterfuge said:

It’s an AW-60ftt. @rockeater have you seen these posts before? 

No I have not.

All EC amps I have ever seen have the same sockets that accept banana plugs.

These might be an audiophile "upgrade" fitted by someone later on.

Open it up and see if they are original or not - normally there are signs of work as people are not as tidy in their work as factory.

 

The "normal" sockets that fit can be found at Altronics or WES and replaced.

[rockeater]

On 11/01/2020 at 8:45 AM, punkterfuge said:

So you don't think replacing the clock would lower jitter and clean up the signal? This seems to be a common mod in most cd players/dacs.  

What jitter?

Forget that word.

There's no need to do anything to it.

Jitter has been invented as a source of problems by the industry.

You used to have "wow and flutter" that was in order of tens of one percent and everything was OK.

All these people who use turntables somehow do not complain about the speed variations of their TT and proclaim that the analogue sound is superior.

But enter the digital domain and suddenly they need stability to parts per million. 

 

A lot of manufacturers do not even bother with crystals and employ phase locked loops. Some put in the crystal. I have only ever seen one case of someone using an oven (a heater bolted on to the crystal that stabilises crystal temperature within a minute after gear being switched on).

Cheers and sorry about the rant

[rockeater]

Hi all,

This is my latest project: fitting of remote control to EC-4 preamp.

It happens to be one with Larvikite stone front panel. A limited edition for their 20th anniversary.

Some pics:

 

 

and a video from my uTube channel.

I talk there about the bit of noise generated by the motor when increasing and decreasing the volume but I managed to get rid of this almost entirely since.

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by rockeater
formatting

[Bobby O]

Greetings all Electrocompaniet owners was hoping to get your thoughts, opinions , experiences on the ECG 1 turntable.

[Guest DrSK]

On 02/01/2020 at 1:41 PM, kdoot said:

New set of balanced interconnects now linking the EC4.7 to my power amp. Holy wow this sounds beautiful. 

Were you running balanced before, and then changed to Lenehan XLRs? 

 

I'm running Electrocompaniet XLRs and wondering if I should switch to Mike's. 

 

I've spent around 10 months waiting for repair on my early Metaxas Soliloquy power amp to drive my ML2+Rs which used Mike's RCA cables. I run his speaker cables too.

 

I got sick of waiting and bought a pair of Electrocompaniet AW180s and they are brilliant, mostly. Holographic with good sound stage depth. But things are less crisp in the bottom end and string plucks less defined on a double base etc. These basically run balanced. 

 

Unsure if some of this relates to cabling...  Not going to hold you too anything, just keen to hear any impressions you had. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by DrSK