DEQX Owners Thread

[wanta911]

So the DEQX-pert thingy is an accurate way to do it? Pardon my ignorance.

 

For initial setup I would think that Alan's expertise would be invaluable. He is going to give you a flatter response based on data, which must be a good starting point. After that I guess it is up to you to decide what your ears like and whether or not to make changes?

 

The only drawback with the remote setup is trying to understand exactly what he did and at some point when I care, I will probably ask him 

 

In the meantime, I think I'll just enjoy the music for a while.........and I might dabble in some Ribbon cables 

[wanta911]

I'm also comparing the PreMate DAC via the USB input to my Auralic Vega and there is a difference. I will give it some more time before I make a firm judgement though.

[wanta911]

OK, I have been using the PreMate for nearly 2 weeks now and I will state right up front that the improvement to the bass response is quite amazing.

 

The original intention was to use it in the tape loop of my integrated amp but I am getting some sort of ground loop noise which I've tried to isolate without any luck so far. So the way it is set up is:

 

1. Auralic Aries to Premate via USB / PreMate to integrated amp via analog balanced XLR.

   Aries volume 100%. PreMate volume 100%. All volume control done with my integrated.

 

As I am still doing an A/B comparison between the PreMate DAC and my Vega, I also use it in the following way:

 

2. Auralic Aries to Vega via USB / Vega to PreMate via analog balanced XLR / PreMate to integrated amp via analog balanced XLR.

    Aries Volume 100%. Vega Volume 100%. PreMate volume 100%. All volume control done with my integrated.

 

Now to the issue I currently have - the PreMate power light turns white when it is clipping and I have been getting this on and off when I listen at louder volumes for the last few days. It happens in both the setups I have listed. I will clarify that I live in an apartment, so "louder" is not exactly over the top. So I guess I should be attenuating the volume somewhere in the chain? When I read the PreMate literature, it states that it should run at 100% volume when feeding to an Integrated amp. I wouldn't have thought I should be lowering the volume on the Aries or the Vega either......

 

Any thoughts?

Edited December 21, 2014 by wanta911

[Darren69]

You have the manual so you would know better Mark, but I remember reading the review in hi fi magazine, the reviewer stated for an integrated, to max the integrated and use the premate's volume control.

Maybe an e mail to Allan Langford at DEQX, am sure he would be interested in the ground noise.

[almikel]

always a challenge getting your gain right across multiple stages...

when you say your pre-mate is clipping (DEQX power light turning white) does that mean the DEQX premate output is clipping, or the DEQX input is clipping or both or either?

On a track you know clips, try backing off the input device to the DEQX, and next the DEQX - keep an eye on the power light on the DEQX.

 

Adjust so you're not lighting the DEQX power light.

Ideally you'll still have plenty of gain available on your integrated to turn it up as much as you want.

 

 

Mike

Edited December 21, 2014 by almikel

[wanta911]

always a challenge getting your gain right across multiple stages...

when you say your pre-mate is clipping (DEQX power light turning white) does that mean the DEQX premate output is clipping, or the DEQX input is clipping or both or either?

On a track you know clips, try backing off the input device to the DEQX, and next the DEQX - keep an eye on the power light on the DEQX.

 

Adjust so you're not lighting the DEQX power light.

Ideally you'll still have plenty of gain available on your integrated to turn it up as much as you want.

 

 

Mike

 

Thanks Mike. Here is what the manual says:

 

Green On - Digital input

Yellow On – Analogue input

Red Standby

White Clipping – signal overloaded (analog input, or digital or analog output)

 

I'm guessing it's the output that's clipping as it's fine at normal listening level with 100% gain on it and everything behind it? It's only when I turn up the integrated that the clipping light comes on. TBH I have absolutely no idea  :lol:

 

 

You have the manual so you would know better Mark, but I remember reading the review in hi fi magazine, the reviewer stated for an integrated, to max the integrated and use the premate's volume control.

Maybe an e mail to Allan Langford at DEQX, am sure he would be interested in the ground noise.

 

That is scary. My Musical Fidelity integrated has a digital readout - the volume dial has no end.

 

Also, I just spent 2 hours unplugging everything and tried the PreMate in tape loop again, it is not a ground loop issue. The PreMate just makes some strange noises in tape loop. It's almost like a vibration from the midrange drivers & tweeters?

 

Anyway, I'll give Alan a call tomorrow......

[aechmea]

Weird.  The DEQX cannot know if the amp is clipping.

 

Suggestion:  Connect your PC.  Run DEQX software.  Select the 'Control Panel'.  Play something.  Twiddle knobs fore and aft.  Watch the DEQX 'input' level display.  Watch the DEQX 'output' level display.  Look for the clipping indicators. That way you can determine where the clipping is occurring.

 

The output 'volume' can be affected with the master volume control, with speaker correction filters, with individual driver gain adjust and with EQ.  So if the output signal is greater than the input signal then one of those steps may be adding too much gain.  In which case just backoff the master volume or correct the step that is in error.

 

I am just thinking that if I ran my DEQX at 100% master volume then the output would be very close to or exceed the output limits and I would expect the indicators to come on.

 

If the clipping is at the DEQX input then backoff the volume at the source.  I don't understand how it could be your USB input since the max digital volume is by definition 0dBFS.  I can understand how it could be an analog input problem if the input is too 'hot'.  But in your scenario 1, there is no analog input, so input clipping is most unlikely/impossible to be a problem.  As it happens the analog output of my universal player is occasionally too hot for the DEQX analog input if the recoding is very loud.  The DEQX analog input sensitivity can be changed by internal jumper settings if that ends up being needed.  But, I doubt that that has anything to do with it.

 

I suspect that there is simply a gain setting that is too high.

[wanta911]

I just hooked up the laptop.

 

Using my Aries via USB to the PreMate DAC and it is all output clipping with no additional EQ other than what Alan did with the bass management. That red indicator is flashing like a fire engine on anything that involves more than a guitar, a voice and a stool  :lol:

 

So I have dropped the PreMate volume by 5db for now and it seems to be doing the job. Alan said that up to 6db attenuation won't affect SQ. I'll let him know tomorrow. 

[Darren69]

Bloody hell, it sounds fantastic and I haven't started any eq yet!

[aechmea]

Quality piece of gear.

 

Tells us D.  What did you end up doing re set-up?  Did/will you get Allan to do it remotely - or what?

 

[Lots of knobs, parameters and switches to confound one when in the early stages.]

[Darren69]

Only plugged it in last night brother @@aechmea so I could have some tunes again, had a very quiet weekend!! haha. Sold the Parasound pre last week.

Printed off the 143 page installers manual today, haha! Sheesh. I would like to get my head around it all and I think I can if I persevere and invest the time, we will see. I don't even know what map it is playing on, haha, maybe Marcs? It still sounds fantastic.

If not, will call Al and give them some sheckles. I already have a UMM Dayton mic from Paul (Red Spade).

Have heard a few comments lately about the DEQX robbing the music of a bit of pizzazz which is interesting but will let my ears decide.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Darren69

[murrmax]

 

 

Have heard a few comments lately about the DEQX robbing the music of a bit of pizzazz which is interesting but will let my ears decide.

 

More a symptom of flattening the frequency response than the DEQX itself - i would think

[wanta911]

I think it's well worth getting Alan to dial in the low frequencies remotely, still the most satisfying tweak ever made to my setup.

 

From that base you can then do what I did - spend months of tweaking other parameters. Going to bed each night thinking "yeah that sounds better" then listening the next day and realising "what the hell was I thinking - that sounds like crap!" 

 

:lol:

[Darren69]

Myeah, I might get sick of that cycle quickly, haha, have got this Friday off so might spend the day playing.

[zipstartcanoe]

 yes, I have done this.   Put the Deqx HDP-4 into the tape loop and played direct and with the deqx in the signal before any correction/eq.      No discernable difference in the sound, so transparency is a given.     Swapping cables made more difference - so make sure the cables are neutral and extended.

 

Well I bit the bullet and bought a HDP-4, and had it professionally setup. The integration of the folded baffle subs and open baffle mains is excellent. What I am struggling to live with though is the noise........ more particularly, an audible hiss which is easily heard from the listening speakers. It is not the HDP-4 unit itself, as I had the original unit swamped out due to a what we think might have been a few dry joints. Strangely, if I hit mute on the DEQX, and place my ear to the 100Db main drivers, the system is silent. If I take the DEQX out of the system - again, silence.

 

Any thoughts on the issue guys? Are these things just inherently noisy?

Edited July 7, 2015 by zipstartcanoe

[aechmea]

 

Any thoughts on the issue guys? Are these things just inherently noisy?

Sorry, no real thoughts.  Sounds like a high gain with low level signal problem.  Where is your volume set? Purple or white?  Profiles attenuating too much, maybe?  Motherboard output voltage jumpers not matched with amp input sensitivity?  Maybe a screen shot of the control panel and the filter whilst playing something would help.  It shouldn't be hissing at you.

 

Mine is completely silent even with volume at 100%.

[davewantsmoore]

Any thoughts on the issue guys? Are these things just inherently noisy?

 

How  much gain do you have in your amplifiers?    You don't need a lot with 100db speakers.

 

Notwithstanding any fault with the DEQX, that would be my bet.

 

EDIT:   yes, look at the jumpers to set the sensitivity of the output.

Edited July 7, 2015 by davewantsmoore

[aechmea]

The output voltage is pretty high even in the default position of the motherboard jumpers.  So if you have turned the DEQX volume down a long way then you may be pushing the (digital) signal into the noise floor (is this called bit stripping?) and not giving the DACs enough to work with.

[wanta911]

My PreMate didn't play nicely with my Musical Fidelity M6 500i integrated amp using the tape loop when I first got it, it was noisy and there was a definite hum. I gave up on that and ran it straight to the balanced inputs on the integrated.

 

With the PreMate connected in this way it is dead quiet playing my music but there is a very faint hum whenever I use the HT bypass on my amp. Interestingly, I tried running the digital signal from the PreMate to a separate DAC the other day and the hum on HT bypass was completely gone using the outputs of the DAC. So I'm guessing there is some sort of issue with the analog output stage on the DEQX?

[almikel]

 

Any thoughts on the issue guys? Are these things just inherently noisy?

The DEQX is definately not inherently noisy, but I've had to muck about quite a bit with gain structure on my setup since installing the PSE144s due to their extreme (~110dB) sensitivity.

 

Hiss is a different issue to @@wanta911 's hum issue, but either is very annoying

 

I tried a few different amps to power my tweeters and ended up with some 10W solid state amps and no hiss.

Things got more complicated when I went 4 way, and I now have a dbx Xover in between the high output (L3/R3) of the DEQX and the tweeter and mid power amps.

 

On the initial gain structure setup I got no hiss, but couldn't get sufficient volume overall (it was flat out hitting peaks of 100dB at the listening position).

I then mucked with increasing the gain on the dbx unit and the gain on the bass amp (it has volume controls) for more overall volume ability (without touching the DEQX jumpers), but there's now audible hiss at the listening position (not too annoying, but it can be heard in very soft music passages).

The setup can now hit peaks of 110dB at the listening position - no I don't have the stereo up that loud very often, but sometimes

 

I've got some more tweaking to do with the DEQX jumpers to see if I can get rid of the hiss but keep the volume ability.

 

On a multi way active setup, regardless of the pre-amp, gain structure is critical, and trickier (I've found) with high sensitivity speakers.

Something to consider is some passive attenuators in between the power amp and driver.

 

cheers,

Mike

[Demondes]

Any DEQX owners using the internal DAC, as opposed to a DAC before or after the DEQX?

 

Also has anyone played round with the new HDP5 and  Premate+?

 

thanks

[aechmea]

I am using a PS Audio Directstream DAC after the DEQX for the mains (single amp).  The DEQX still does the subs.

 

The PS A DS is very clean and articulate, which is the sort of sound that I prefer.  Mrs. A thinks that it is the best addition/upgrade for some time.  However, I dislike its low output voltage, and so I have to play things close to full volume everywhere.

 

These days the recording/mastering is my weakest link so an improvement here or there doesn't matter so much (to me).

[wanta911]

I tried using my Auralic Vega after the PreMate via the digital BNC out for a few days just this week. I would describe the Vega as being sharper with more clarity than the DEQX DAC and for critical listening with well recorded material it is probably superior. The Vega also had the advantage of the different filter & clock settings. If most of my music library was classical or jazz it would probably still be in place. 

 

However......as the bulk of my music is in fact 70s, 80s & 90s rock/pop/electronic and subsequently not always particularly well recorded or mastered, I actually prefer the DEQX DAC. To my ears it is smoother and more forgiving than the Vega and in long term listening it was just more musical for me. Using the internal DAC also negates the need for an additional component in a situation where space is already an issue.

 

As I said to another member here recently, "it is a fine line between detail & musicality". 

[Darren69]

Mark, I think I resemble your post, haha, I love all the worst recorded stuff, mostly rock and metal so maybe the DEQX dac will do me. My other option was to team my PW transport up with a PW dac (Mk II...cant afford the DSD, except in Ultrawave version I guess) and find a JC2 pre to match the monos and have a listen to that.

So yes, not sure what differences would be heard on the CD's I listen to and am still financially recovering from the DEQX purchase so wont know for a while either! Haha.

Am sure the dac/JC2 path will percolate in the back of my mind until I actually try it, knowing what my brain is like.

Am too scared to even visit the sub woofer planet!! My brain might pop with all of those options.

Plus the rest of my life is being annoying and wanting to get money for things when I am trying to build the worlds best hi fi.

Been reading the manuals and feel lost already so yes, will chat to Alan. My UMM mic wont do as it has the wrong cable but can use the cable to plug into the desktop from the DEQX. Will chat to Alan about mic hire and DEQXpert assistance, will need a day off work for that etc etc.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Darren69

[aechmea]

Yeah @@Darren69 - ya gotta get Allan to do you an initial set-up to get things up and running.  Especially important for non-speaker-designer-un-technical-consumer types like us.  If you have designed and built speakers and cross-overs etc. and/or tinkered with acoustics, it may not be quite as puzzling.  For me "who is Linkwitz and why does he drive a Riley" was a valid question, while, 1st and 2nd orders where things that happened at restaurants.

 

Then in the fullness of time you can read the manual while looking at what Allan has done.  Then things start to fall into place.  Time then to build your own profiles.  Even then some things remain a mystery - but you get there eventually.  These days its a doddle but it wasn't always so.  Knowledge and familiarity are king.

 

Forget the other hardware bits and pieces and upgrades for the time being, and come to terms with the DEQX first.  Great sound that could be all you will ever need.