Spearmint Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Another thing to consider if going down the Behringer road is that it is designed for pro use and therefore requires a higher level of input than consumer gear. Typically consumer gear operates at -10dB and pro gear at +4dB. It has been noted that the ADC’s and DAC’s in some of the Behringer gear can be noisy and have reduced resolution if not run at high enough levels.
terry j Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 hi guys happy as the proverbial pig right now! Up and running! Spearmint, where are you getting all your data from? Yeah, have come across the input 'problem' elsewhere, based on the last hour or two doesn't seem to be a problem though, the little $119 Digitrex from Big W seems to be supplying enough, can easily clipp the input with it. By the way, it looks as if the DEQ 2496 I'm fiddling with doesn't have phase correction, so one up for the deqx (the dcx 2496 does have phase angle adjustment, but as I say don't know if that corresponds to the phase adjustment of the deqx). Have yet to try the room analysis function yet, will consolidate what I've learnt so far before moving on to that, it is at least a great toy, santa should bring something like this to every audiophile each christmas-but only if youve been good. And remember, he knows! will update later ttfn terry
Spearmint Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Spearmint, where are you getting all your data from? Yeah, have come across the input 'problem' elsewhere, based on the last hour or two doesn't seem to be a problem though, the little $119 Digitrex from Big W seems to be supplying enough, can easily clipp the input with it. [/b] The photo I attached in my last post is part of my rack. There are two other Behringer pieces in other parts of the rack also.
terry j Posted August 5, 2006 Posted August 5, 2006 god dang spearmint always suspected you were pretty savvy on this stuff, my only question is why did you let me rabbit on earlier, digging my own grave, digging..diging..... Spill the beans, have you got a studio or something, or is that all (gulp) for a home theatre set up? (Forgive me any of you older planeteers who may know these answers already) To top it all off, you are probably one of the melbourne crew and are therefore inaccessable to sydneysiders like myself! Will read the thread you supplied later when I have more time, off to dig 26 bloody holes to plant trees now! You've really piqued my interest now. Will have a bit more of a fiddle later on - if I get time. No point anymore in me 'advising' on this thread is there, spearmint has just elected himself official guru and chief question answerer thingy! Hope you can type easily and therefore longish replys are not a problem, tho I suspect most of the data you have to give to help us is already contained in the other thread. I will soon see thanks spearmint fingers crossed for you obiwan for next week see ya terry
Spearmint Posted August 5, 2006 Posted August 5, 2006 god dang spearmint always suspected you were pretty savvy on this stuff, my only question is why did you let me rabbit on earlier, digging my own grave, digging..diging..... Spill the beans, have you got a studio or something, or is that all (gulp) for a home theatre set up? terry [/b] It is my HT/2ch setup. To top it all off, you are probably one of the melbourne crew and are therefore inaccessable to sydneysiders like myself! terry [/b] You got it in one… Will read the thread you supplied later when I have more time, off to dig 26 bloody holes to plant trees now! terry [/b] There is really not much to read in the thread I linked, just a very basic overview. Will have a bit more of a fiddle later on - if I get time. No point anymore in me 'advising' on this thread is there, spearmint has just elected himself official guru and chief question answerer thingy! Hope you can type easily and therefore longish replys are not a problem, tho I suspect most of the data you have to give to help us is already contained in the other thread. I will soon see terry [/b] As I said earlier there is not much info in the other thread with regards to what you are trying to achieve. Sorry Terry but I’m no guru and you are doing a great job with helping the others, I was just filling in a couple of blanks. I’ll leave it to you as you are currently playing and tweaking your units, if I can, I’ll add a *** bit here and there.
Spearmint Posted August 5, 2006 Posted August 5, 2006 Some of the information from the previous link. Behringer Feedback Destroyer BFD1124P 24-Bit Dual Engine Digital Feedback Destroyer/Parametric EQ Behringer Ultra-Curve Pro DEQ2496 Ultra High-Precision Digital 24-Bit/96 kHz EQ/RTA Mastering Processor Behringer Ultradrive Pro DCX2496 Ultra High-Precision Digital 24-Bit/96 kHz Loudspeaker Management System BFD1124P This unit is a great addition to anyone with a sub, there is a fantastic site at Snapbug that has a full comprehensive setup guide, as well as utilities to help set the filters, these being sound files to create a test tone cd, spreadsheet to plot your in room response, with filter settings, and the software to control the BFD remotely. Pros Cheap price 2x 12 parametric filters Switchable input levels XLR & 1/4 in phono connectors for in & out, the 1/4in to rca adaptors are a good cheap conversion Cons Bright display that can’t be dimmed Many users experience a noisy buzz from the power supply Loud thump from subs if they are powered on before the BFD is turned on or off. Ultra-Curve Pro DEQ2496 Although this unit costs more than twice the BFD, you do get a good set of nice toys. You get a 31band RTA, 2x 10 parametric filters, and Dynamic EQ’s, SPL meter with peak hold. Quieter power supply, much better display, not so in your face. Muted power on/off feature. Pros 2x 10 parametric filters Dynamic EQ’s Switchable input levels Muted output for power on/off Programmable outputs SPL meter with peak hold Aux outputs configurable Digital in/out Cons XLR connectors – more expensive adaptors No software for computer programming Ultradrive Pro DCX2496 This unit is about $100.00 more than the DEQ2496, although it doesn’t have the RTA & SPL meters, it incorporates the Parametric EQ’s and Dynamic EQ’s of the DEQ. The additional smarts of this unit has various xovers with different slopes, as well as +/- 15dB level controls on all inputs & outputs. It also incorporates programmable delays on inputs & outputs and variable phase control for each output. Pros 3 inputs & 6 outputs Software to program via a PC Parametric filters on both inputs & outputs Dynamic EQ’s Adjustable delays Programmable xovers with various types & slopes Inputs & outputs fully programmable Muted output for power on/off Cons Only accepts high signal levels i.e. no Consumer level inputs XLR connectors – more expensive adaptors Summary For the average person that wants to tame in room peaks the BFD is a great choice, the software to program it is great and makes setting the unit up a breeze. If you require an RTA and SPL meter then the DEQ has these, but where the DEQ & DCX shine is with the Dynamic EQ’s and this is where the additional money comes into its own. Imagine you have a passive sub and you want to protect the driver, the DEQ allows you to set the freq, the threshold, the slope, and the amount of a attenuation, thereby allowing the sub to play the entire frequency range but if the input signal exceeds the preset threshold then the DEQ kicks in and reduces output in the freq range selected. Likewise if you like to add some boost in say the 30~40hz range when you are listening at low levels it can do this as well, then when the input goes above the threshold (i.e. you turn the volume up to watch a movie) this boost is cancelled. I would say that for most people I wouldn’t go past either the BFD or DEQ. If you feel adventurous then the DCX is the baby for you. This allows you to play to your hearts content. You can send your mains through this unit and program the xover and slope to suit your tastes between your mains & subs, maybe a 53Hz xover, or if you run multiple subs you can program each operating range. You can program delays and variable phase per output. The major downside of the DCX is there is no pro/consumer switch, and it requires a high input signal which requires attenuation of the output; (Pro gear operates at nom +4dB or 10 volts, consumer gear at nom -10dB or 1 volt) this can be done several ways including the onboard +/- 15dB level controls. I am feeding mine via digital from the DEQ which has the pro/consumer switch; this has allowed me to keep my outputs at a reasonable level. Below is another unit that several users are using to attenuate the outputs. This great little device is six channel and only $33 Australian. [/b]
terry j Posted August 5, 2006 Posted August 5, 2006 thanks spearmint for your kind words and info. Yeah, the thread kinda died a slow death didn't it. re your observation regarding input levels, for the last couple of years have been running my dcx with the almighty digitrex (stop laughing everyone - no, I'm serious!) simply as a quick and easy solution to the volume control problem, ie can use the remote volume control and vary the output from the (dvd/cd/mp3/kodak picture/etc) unit in order to control the volume. It also had co-ax out so kept it digital into the dcx. Whilst it still sounded good at lowish levels I always tended to play on the loud to ear-splitting side of the ledger, am now wondering if it had something to do with the input levels being higher (as designed to be in pro gear as you and others have mentioned) led to 'better' sound? Ie, low input levels lessen the ability of the dcx internals and d/a's to process accurately. Obviously a front end upgrade was always on the list, perhaps now it has been bumped up the queue quite a bit. Will go and see DLITE this week and have a look at the squeezebox. Do you know if something like that handles the input question?, ie does it output sufficient voltage? Will see if Michael knows the answer to that as well. This would lead to the neccessity of handling the volume control side of things, Leon has a quality six gang volume control, but quite a hefty price tag, perhaps should start with the unit you showed. Any contact info on that one? Thanks in advance. I might have to see how many frequent flyer points I have. had a quick look in the showcase section, doesn't look like you have anything listed there, don't know about anyone else but I for one would like to see you put a post on yours in there. Anyone else agree? lots of love terry
Spearmint Posted August 5, 2006 Posted August 5, 2006 Decibel HiFi for the 6 pot kit. Or you can use a Behringer MX882
dlite Posted August 5, 2006 Posted August 5, 2006 Apologies if I miss the point on this one but it is getting late and the wine has been flowing and it is hard enough to focus on the screen let alone type. The Squeezebox and a built in digital volume control (ie. before it passes the data to the DAC) and so far in my system has been more than sufficient to deliver the power needed. The volume steps are customisable as well and can be attentuated if you have an efficient system like mine. The digital volume control can also be bypassed if required. The volume is controled by the remote. The specs specified the output as "Full 6.0Vpp line-level signals" not sure what the "pp" stands for most players output a max of 2v RMS.
terry j Posted August 5, 2006 Posted August 5, 2006 thanks guys I rang decibel hi fi a few days ago re the six pot volume control, must have got the 'tip' someplace else. However, they quoted me $253 for the kit. Who says we don't have inflation in australia? thanks michael, will check out that applicablity of the squeezebox. see ya
Spearmint Posted August 5, 2006 Posted August 5, 2006 thanks guys I rang decibel hi fi a few days ago re the six pot volume control, must have got the 'tip' someplace else. However, they quoted me $253 for the kit. Who says we don't have inflation in australia? thanks michael, will check out that applicablity of the squeezebox. see ya [/b] That is because you got quoted on this unit. Maybe they don’t do the little kit anymore. You have to remember that write up was over two years old. I’ve probably still got one of the small kits unused in a box somewhere if anyone is interested.
terry j Posted August 6, 2006 Posted August 6, 2006 interested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Will even pick up! (I bet know one noticed the shameless attempt to meet and here new people and systems!)
terry j Posted August 15, 2006 Posted August 15, 2006 hi spearmint looks like a couple of post's dissappeared so I'll kinda resurrect it a tiny bit, you were going to check on whether or not you had an unused attenuator laying about. Any news? also obiwan was getting as excited as an expectant father. any new additions to your family yet obiwan?? lots of love terry
obiwan Posted August 15, 2006 Posted August 15, 2006 Yes an addition Terry, but not what you think. I've probably had too many red wines to rave about it properly at the moment. I'll wait till the alcohol wears off. Its a public holiday in Brisbane tomorrow, hence the relaxing red wines tonight. For the moment I'll just say a big thank you to Scott of Essential Audio and leave it at that. Just paying you back Terry, you've been a bit of a tease in here before. So, no, the DEQX hasn't arrived, its due this week, but I reckon next week will be more likely.
Spearmint Posted August 15, 2006 Posted August 15, 2006 hi spearmint looks like a couple of post's dissappeared so I'll kinda resurrect it a tiny bit, you were going to check on whether or not you had an unused attenuator laying about. Any news? terry [/b] I only had a male look on the weekend; I’ll get motivated and have a female look ASAP. I know I do have one somewhere in a box, just a matter of finding it.
WINEDS Posted August 15, 2006 Posted August 15, 2006 Re the 6 ch volume control, looks the same as this (only cheaper) http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=K5600
Spearmint Posted August 15, 2006 Posted August 15, 2006 Re the 6 ch volume control, looks the same as this (only cheaper) http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=K5600 [/b] AFAIK they are the same unit Wineds.
WINEDS Posted August 16, 2006 Posted August 16, 2006 Sorry Spearmint - just realised you were really referring to the little unit!
Gav Posted August 18, 2006 Posted August 18, 2006 Yes an addition Terry, but not what you think. I've probably had too many red wines to rave about it properly at the moment. I'll wait till the alcohol wears off. Its a public holiday in Brisbane tomorrow, hence the relaxing red wines tonight. For the moment I'll just say a big thank you to Scott of Essential Audio and leave it at that. Just paying you back Terry, you've been a bit of a tease in here before. So, no, the DEQX hasn't arrived, its due this week, but I reckon next week will be more likely. [/b] Keep us up to date with the DEQX
obiwan Posted August 18, 2006 Posted August 18, 2006 "Keep us up to date with the DEQX" Well email today says that its being shipped. Should probably have it Monday or Tuesday I reckon.
Gav Posted August 18, 2006 Posted August 18, 2006 "Keep us up to date with the DEQX" Well email today says that its being shipped. Should probably have it Monday or Tuesday I reckon. [/b] Now try and get some sleep :wink:
terry j Posted August 18, 2006 Posted August 18, 2006 sleep!!! Why the hell does HE get sleep when I can't!
terry j Posted August 23, 2006 Posted August 23, 2006 No Obiwan, we have not forgotten. still waiting. fill us in. now. lots of love, terry
obiwan Posted August 23, 2006 Posted August 23, 2006 Well here I sit with a headache niggling away. Firstly, yes the DEQX arrived Monday, but I didn't get home till 10.30pm so no playing that night. Then last night, yes I installed the software, but then I couldn't get the laptop and DEQX to communicate via USB. I thought holy hell, if I can't even make it past step 2, I'm going to be in real trouble. The manual was saying things like you may have turn DEQX on and off a few times for your computer to recognise new hardware, or you may need to upgrade the firmware (but its a brand new unit, just tested before being shipped), or don't use a USB cable over 3m. Mind you, I used the USB cable they provided but it was 5meters. I hopped online and posted my dilemma on the DEQX forum (you have to own a DEQX to get access to that newsgroup) and I got quite a few quick responses from around the world. Anyway, I packed DEQX up and took it to work today so I could phone them and have them talk me through whatever stupidity I was doing, but before phoning them I tried a 1meter USB cable I had at work, and bingo, it all suddenly worked. I tried the USB cable they sent me on some of my work devices, and nothing worked. It must have just been a dud cable. All I've had a chance to do so far back at home, is just plug it all in to make sure it all works. So no measuring, calibration or anything so far, just a quick check and then I was promptly told to push that cabinet back where it belongs and make the TV work again. Hmmmmf. I guess I'll have to play later. In fact I won't get a chance to set it up till the weekend as a friend arrives tomorrow night for a few nights, there's just no time.
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