Gav Posted August 23, 2006 Posted August 23, 2006 Quote Well here I sit with a headache niggling away. Firstly, yes the DEQX arrived Monday, but I didn't get home till 10.30pm so no playing that night. Then last night, yes I installed the software, but then I couldn't get the laptop and DEQX to communicate via USB. I thought holy hell, if I can't even make it past step 2, I'm going to be in real trouble. The manual was saying things like you may have turn DEQX on and off a few times for your computer to recognise new hardware, or you may need to upgrade the firmware (but its a brand new unit, just tested before being shipped), or don't use a USB cable over 3m. Mind you, I used the USB cable they provided but it was 5meters. I hopped online and posted my dilemma on the DEQX forum (you have to own a DEQX to get access to that newsgroup) and I got quite a few quick responses from around the world. Anyway, I packed DEQX up and took it to work today so I could phone them and have them talk me through whatever stupidity I was doing, but before phoning them I tried a 1meter USB cable I had at work, and bingo, it all suddenly worked. I tried the USB cable they sent me on some of my work devices, and nothing worked. It must have just been a dud cable. All I've had a chance to do so far back at home, is just plug it all in to make sure it all works. So no measuring, calibration or anything so far, just a quick check and then I was promptly told to push that cabinet back where it belongs and make the TV work again. Hmmmmf. I guess I'll have to play later. In fact I won't get a chance to set it up till the weekend as a friend arrives tomorrow night for a few nights, there's just no time. [/b] Aaargh I would have been pulling my hair out, dosnt it drive you insane trying to get things to work on the computer somtimes. Good luck ounce you get time to have ago.
terry j Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Hi gav whats up? Hope the silence here is because of the glorious sound there! Wadiaman elsewhere said he heard the big red, which uses a DEQX. He did feel that it looked a bit complex, how have you found it? Update please!! LOL terry
Gav Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Quote Hi gav whats up? Hope the silence here is because of the glorious sound there! Wadiaman elsewhere said he heard the big red, which uses a DEQX. He did feel that it looked a bit complex, how have you found it? Update please!! LOL terry [/b] Actually i am reasonably happy with what I have at the moment , but that is probably due to not hearing anything alse to compare it with. I am sure that the DEQX is complex, but I would not have a clue to how complex it actually is, I look forward to obiwan makeing some coments on his impresion on his DEQX I was running in a differant direction for alittle while as all is quiet on the DEQX Post I was doing some looking into some Sonus Faber Speakers particularry the Cremona Auditor, reason , just for somthing to keep me busy, and that some guys on the Meridian forum seem to think that the Sonus Faber & Meridian Amps are a marrage made in Heaven. I would like to get down to Audio Connection some time just to here them for my self of course it would be nice to hear them with my Meridian 556 Any way Im just keeping my self busy checking out Audio gear (online) & listening to Classical Music
terry j Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 thanks gav, as you are well aware I'm a complete idiot! I meant to ask obiwan how he was going with the DEQX, but being the twit that I am I accidently substituted your name instead! I am however glad you responded, because I am interested in how you're going as well. Please forgive me. Substitute obiwans name for yours and my post makes a bit more sense. I am glad that you're getting in to the classical, am keeping an eye on your post's on that thread too. Don't worry, we'll handle that bass prob of yours one day!!! lots of love the town idiot.
terry j Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 updates please obiwan ( got it right that time!!) lots of love terry
obiwan Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 OK OK. I'm finally becoming reasonably proficient with this DEQX thing. Just a few hiccups along the way, but I think I have it sorted now. Hiccup 1. After installing the software on my laptop, I couldn't get the PDC (as in the DEQX unit) to communicate with my laptop. After an evening wasted trudging through the DEQX user forums and making some posts, I find out I have a dud USB cable. Thank God that's all it was. Hiccup 2. After a whole day of all the hassle of rearranging the room and equipment rack all on my own, going through the whole DEQX procedure, I successfully got everything calibrated and transfered to the PDC, but then suddenly lost all my data on the laptop after the laptop went into hibernate. Had to repeat the process all over again. People at DEQX tell me that's a known bug and will be fixed soon. Hiccup 3. I fricken did it again. Laptop is now set to "always on". Won't make that mistake again. Oh, and an earlier hiccup was where the hell was the microphone calibration file, it was supposed to be there automatically, it wasn't so I had to download the appropriate mike calibration file from the DEQX website. Not very computer literate, so proud that I worked out how to do that. So how does it all work. After entering in your speaker brand, model, serial numbers, and what configuration you're going to use (in my case "single amp with mono sub") you measure your speakers. You have to place the speaker mid way between the floor and the ceiling and in the middle of the room and have the mike 1m away. You measure the speakers and then you measure the sub at 15cm away. You then let DEQX calculate the correction filter for each speaker. I always found my Dyn Special 25's a little forward, I was expecting to see a prominant midrange, but it was the treble that was too hot with a peak of 6dB or so at 10kHz. Anyway the filter created give you a flat response at 1m. After that you configure your speakers. Decide where you want to cross the sub and the mains, what slopes you want etc. Here you even enter the difference in distance between the sub and the mains to time align them. I actually saved 3 different congurations with 3 different crossover points, 70, 90 and 110 Hz. You then send that to the PDC. Then its time for room correction, which I've only done on the 110Hz profile at the moment. For room measurement the mike is at the listening postiion, so 3m away. Before any equalisation, I was quite impressed how flat the response was from 400Hz through to 20kHz. You can measure the in room response in several postions, but as I was up to my 3rd attempt at doing this (lost data twice before) I just did one result at the sweet spot. You can do an auto equalise thing, but I did it manually with the parametric equaliser. I only had to use 4 points. One dissappointing thing is that you can't verify that room correction does exactly what you want it to. I had to check that using my Velodyne DD15 software, and I can confirm that I did get quite a flat response via the DEQX's room correction. So how does it all sound? Well first of all, no more hardness to the sound. Losing that 10kHz peak really did the trick. It all sounds so effortless now, quite natural, especially on that new Chesky disc (thanks Marc). I have a lot more listening to go, but its Riverfire weekend in Brisbane this weekend, and I have a lot of preparing for the big party tomorrow night (we're on the river, city views for all the fireworks, F111 dump and burn etc). I want to meaure my large floorstanding speakers as well, but its just too hard to get them in a good place for measurement on my own, that will have to wait for another weekend. I also want to try biamping my Special 25's and I'm sure then things will really shine. Is that enough for the moment Terry?
terry j Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 fantastic! I'm sure I am not the only keeping an eye on your progress! lots of love terry
Gav Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 Thanks for the update obiwan Even though it looks daunting with the large manual to read it appears you have managed with a few minor problems to achive some mesure of improvment with out to much effort ( or did you spend alot of time to get this far) look forward to your next installment, while I ponder outlaying that amount of $$ on one.
obiwan Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 Now I want to work out where you buy speaker clips from. I mean the ones that actually clip to the speaker driver. In case I end up selling my Special 25's, I just want to disconnect the current crossover from the drivers, but leaving it all intact, and then biamp the speakers by directly connecting the drivers to their own power amps and simply have the speaker cables coming into the speaker via the rear port which will have its foam port plugs in as well.
Aslan Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 Obi...............most speaker driver terminals use Utilux standard push on connectors..........there are 2 sizes, large and small. Nearly every auto retailer sells them as they fit auto connectors as well. Brands are Narva and Utilux...........easy. Andrew
obiwan Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 Thanks Andrew, it would be a shame to have DEQX but not actually use it to its full potential, though some might consider it blasphemy to gut a Dynaudio in this manner.
terry j Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 hi obiwan no not a shame, go for it I say! You must be feeling a lot more comfortable with it to consider going to the next stage. Besides that, you're not really gutting it are you, ie any changes you make are completely reversible? Which of the two at this stage is looking the most likely to go?(just read that you hadn't done anything on the floorstanders yet) Found it interesting that the 25's were not flat, was that due to room response or an intrinsic weakness of the xover I wonder. Do you have an extra amp laying around for your biamp experiment, or are you going to borrow one. looking forward to more results, keep up the good work! lots of love terry
obiwan Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 I'll just disconnect my 3 channel power from the home theatre and use that to drive the tweeters. I'll be doing that to the bookshelf Special 25's. With the floorstanding pair, they are a 3 way, but use 2 woofers (plus mid and tweeter). If I was to that to the floorstanding pair I'm not quite sure how to connect the woofers. Should you use a y-splitter from the DEQX bass channel so each woofer has its own amp, or do you just 'biwire" the woofers from the single amp? In either case though, I don't have enough amps for making the 3 ways active. Also if I make the 3 ways active, that means the sub can't be used with the DEQX
terry j Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 hi obiwan, not that I know much about those dynaudio speakers in particular, but I shouldn't imagine that having two drivers in the bass per se is a problem. You will probably find that they are wired in parallel ie they both respond to a signal the same way ( a bit like Ricks Jupiters, 4 bass drivers all wired together and operate in unison). If thats the case then the bass channel as a whole gets amplified. I'm sure Rick could explain a lot better than I. Can't help you with hooking up the sub tho. Lots of luck in any case, terry
obiwan Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 When I do bisect the Special 25s, I've been giving some thought as to what crossover frequency to use. My theory is I should lower it down a little from what it is now. It currently uses 2.4KHz, but I think that is too high for an 8 inch bass driver. I prefer the mid/treble presentation of my floorstanding S5.4's and also the Confidence C1's. All 3 have the same tweeter, but the other 2 speakers use 2.0 and 1.8Khz respectively.
norpus Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 Quote I'll just disconnect my 3 channel power from the home theatre and use that to drive the tweeters. I'll be doing that to the bookshelf Special 25's. With the floorstanding pair, they are a 3 way, but use 2 woofers (plus mid and tweeter). If I was to that to the floorstanding pair I'm not quite sure how to connect the woofers. Should you use a y-splitter from the DEQX bass channel so each woofer has its own amp, or do you just 'biwire" the woofers from the single amp? In either case though, I don't have enough amps for making the 3 ways active. Also if I make the 3 ways active, that means the sub can't be used with the DEQX [/b] Can a Behringer CX2310 help you integrate the sub - pass the bass signal from the other active xover into the CS2310 and it will pick the sub bass and send it mono to the sub. Thats what mine does Thus the hypass taking the other bass to your amps for the woofers. http://www.allansmusic.com.au/default.aspx...ductCode=CX2310
Drizt Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 I did a bit of thinking and the use of a electronic crossover scares me a little. With every A-D-A there is some loss. So wouldn't introducing a electronic cross over like a behringer increase the chance of loss? eg. say in my system... if i bought a behringer crossover and then sent an analogue signal to it which then gets converted to digital broken up into two parts (hi and low) and sent the high to my mains after another digital to anolgue conversion and the low to the sub then wouldnt i be introducing losses to the system? Excuse my ignorance, i had a quick conversation with JohnA about it, but was curious of other peoples thoughts?
norpus Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 A few of us have used behringers for bass duties like this and we have found them clean so far Excuse my ignorance but is it just analogue throughout?
Drizt Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 Quote Excuse my ignorance but is it just analogue throughout?A few of us have used behringers for bass duties like this and we have found them clean so far [/b] Sorry maybe im thinking of another product... The one i was thinking of takes in an analogue input, then converts it to digital so that it can act as a digital crossover and break the signal up into two parts. It then converts the two signals back to analogue to be sent to the mains speakers and subwoofer(s). Or i have flipped out and have totally no idea what im talking about
Aslan Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 Obi..............see if you can find out the resonant frequency of the tweeter (Fs)...............If you want to lower the xover point it should preferably at least 2xFs.
terry j Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 I guess the beauty of the deqx is that it enables you to suck it and see, very easy to experiment with the various xover points for eg. Are the bass units the same in both? In the two way I guess its paramount to protect the tweeter, but then again going lower with it on a 200 db/ oct slope it's probably way ahead in terms of protection than currently crossed higher with ( at most?) a 48 db/oct slope! To put a behringer into it as well seems counterproductive, esp. given the cost of the deqx. I guess it is a cheaper way to go than a second deqx!! I'm really showing my ignorance here, but is the sub able to do it's own low pass, what I mean is can you feed it full range signal and it can cut off the top as you dictate? That would handle your probs easily. I get confused a bit too Drizt, Beh. have so many products, with so little info on their use, that it can be hard to see what to do with them. I would say however that most of them have digital in, or at least I'd expect the xovers to have that, which would remove your main objection. The downside would be that you then rely on the quality or otherwise of the Beh. d/a's, unless digital out to an external dac. Obiwan, I know that deqx have the user forum you mentioned, but why don't you give them a call on how to put a sub with a three way? Surely they wouldn't be too upset with a phone call rather than a post on a website? lots of love terry
obiwan Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 The little Dynaudio C1's (http://dynaudiousa.com/products/confidence/c1/c1ovr.htm) sound great. They have the same tweeter and a smaller bass driver, so if anything you'd think they'd be crossed higher than the Special 25 (http://dynaudiousa.com/products/contour/spec25/s25.htm). By the way Terry, Dynaudio uses first order crossovers not 48dB, so despite lowering the crossover point, using a steep linear phase crossover should still give the tweeters much much less of a workout than you previoulsy thought. Thing is, if I did triamp the floorstanders (http://dynaudiousa.com/products/contour/s54/s54.htm) with the DEQX, I think there would be little need for a sub anyway. I could just delegate that to purely home theatre duties.
norpus Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 Quote Sorry maybe im thinking of another product... The one i was thinking of takes in an analogue input, then converts it to digital so that it can act as a digital crossover and break the signal up into two parts. It then converts the two signals back to analogue to be sent to the mains speakers and subwoofer(s). Or i have flipped out and have totally no idea what im talking about [/b] I just went thru the pdf manual with a search button - nowhere did it crop up the word digital. The BFD is labelled digital on the front panel however
Drizt Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 Quote I just went thru the pdf manual with a search button - nowhere did it crop up the word digital. The BFD is labelled digital on the front panel however [/b] I thought for a crossover to be variable then it needs to be done in the digital domain. Analogue crossovers (found inside speakers) have a fixed crossover point. Which units do you use in your system norpus?</span> Quote I just went thru the pdf manual with a search button - nowhere did it crop up the word digital. The BFD is labelled digital on the front panel however [/b] EDIT: Seems i was talking about the Behringer DCX2496 Ultradrive Pro. -> Click here in the linked page it states the following "High-end AKM¬ 24-bit/96 kHz A/D and D/A converters for ultimate signal integrity and wide dynamic range (113 dB)" And heres a second page (CLICK HERE) which says " The ULTRADRIVE PRO DCX2496 is the ultimate digital loudspeaker management system with an unheard-of audio quality and feature list."
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