DoggieHowser Posted July 11, 2014 Author Posted July 11, 2014 On 11/07/2014 at 11:44 AM, awayward said: I'm not sure how my comment got to how it does not bother you, at purchase time I stated to Mike that I wanted a spec, at speaker pick up and payment I stated I wanted a spec, he said he would suppy it, it is important to me. I merely said I've never had a spec sheet before with my other speakers before nor had it bothered me before. There was no malice intended. A speakers sound is unique and I look for a sound that appeals to me rather than just a specification sheet. As for Mike's system, all I can say is that Mike's not a slick business person. I remember trying to get an inventory system going for him so he'd be able to keep track of what parts and components he'd need to keep production going. Habits of a project manager die hard but there was a system to his madness. I attribute it to the fact that I am an engineer and designing speakers like what Mike does is like an art form I think I understood that when I did business with Mike. And it was based on trust rather than having everything documented. But I understand that it's different for everyone. All I would suggest is to keep reminding him if it is that important to you. He gets a zillion calls a day and I can imagine he'd have trouble trying to balance the business paperwork and getting around to actually building the speakers. Maybe it will help once he goes to a retail model so someone else can handle stuff like invoices and spec sheets and he just focuses on designing and building them.
Once was an audiophile Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 On 11/07/2014 at 9:22 AM, flemo said: Yupp, Kajak12, game over! End of journey and yes i have enjoyed it good bye hifi hello live music 1
Telecine Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) On 11/07/2014 at 12:29 PM, kajak12 said: End of journey and yes i have enjoyed it good bye hifi hello live musicSad news. Now what are you doing with your music collection? ; ) Edited July 11, 2014 by Telecine
Once was an audiophile Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 On 11/07/2014 at 12:39 PM, Telecine said: Sad news. Now what are you doing with your music collection? ; ) Keeping it for the car
Guest Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 On 11/07/2014 at 11:44 AM, awayward said: I'm not sure how my comment got to how it does not bother you, at purchase time I stated to Mike that I wanted a spec, at speaker pick up and payment I stated I wanted a spec, he said he would suppy it, it is important to me. I think the point has been made loud and clear now - but as it is completely irrelevant to this thread there was probably other, better ways to go about raising the issue. I'd suggest contacting Mike again - I am confident he will follow through with your request.
Pops110 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 On 11/07/2014 at 8:57 AM, DoggieHowser said: Mike's a bit of a perfectionist - but I have never known him not to deliver on his promises. It took me almost a year before I got my Limiteds but he was always tweaking his designs along the way so it isn't like a "factory assembly line" where you can hire just about any guy with a hammer and a screwdriver to build the speakers at a set pace. Heck, in the time since I got my Limiteds, he went off and got a custom order of copper screws that replace the brass ones that came with mine. That's just the way Mike works. Which reminds me, I need to make sure I get the new screws before they run out Copper screws? Why? Have you tried to worth with copper or brass screws? Cheers Dave.
Peter_F Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 On 11/07/2014 at 1:02 PM, kajak12 said: Keeping it for the car World of cello and World of violin in the beast? 2
DoggieHowser Posted July 11, 2014 Author Posted July 11, 2014 On 11/07/2014 at 2:37 PM, Pops110 said: Copper screws? Why? Have you tried to worth with copper or brass screws? Cheers Dave. A couple of guys here have had the chance to get their brass screws replaced with the copper ones. You'll have to ask them how they sound But yes, Mike did mention it was very easy to strip the threads. Which is why I plan on carting them back to the Gold Coast one day to get the maestro to do it. I don't exactly trust myself
Once was an audiophile Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 On 11/07/2014 at 2:53 PM, flemo said: World of cello and World of violin in the beast? violin and cello is best served live unamplified
bhobba Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 On 11/07/2014 at 3:54 PM, pchan said: I thought hitler lost the war..... He was caught up in listening to his limited's instead Thanks Bill 1
DoggieHowser Posted July 12, 2014 Author Posted July 12, 2014 On 12/07/2014 at 8:39 AM, bhobba said: He was caught up in listening to his limited's instead Thanks Bill The newest story was that he was taking a err power nap during a critical phase of the war and no one dared to wake him up. I blame the Bose clock radio!
Lenehan Audio Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 On 11/07/2014 at 2:37 PM, Pops110 said: Copper screws? Why? Have you tried to worth with copper or brass screws? Cheers Dave. Hi Pops110. About 8 years ago I heard about how brass driver screws sounded better than the normal steel screws . Ok I thought about this and concluded ! Ahh No , insane audio tweeky nutism !!! But for a reason I can't remember I gave it a go .Amazing , it worked ! But to confirm this I enlisted the help of the first dedicated audiophile that came into the shop , this was in fact rawl99 so maybe he can also confirm our findings. From approximately 6 blind comparisons rawl99 picked the ML1 with the brass screws as superior to the ML1 with the standard M4 25mm steel cap screw. There was Research done as to why this could have happened and what we have learned has culminated in actually having custom copper screws manufactured. Our research indicates these screws should be superior and sound better again than the Brass screws. At this time we have not actually confirmed that this is the case but I think ( famous last words ) that they will be . I hope this doesn't result in !! terminal ignition !! As I'm sure the <Cables Make No Difference > crew will be experiencing goose bumps right now and barring up. In any case Pops that's why we use copper screws. Mike Lenehan LenehanAudio
Phantom Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 On 12/07/2014 at 10:51 AM, LenehanAudio said: . I hope this doesn't result in !! terminal ignition !! As I'm sure the <Cables Make No Difference > crew will be experiencing goose bumps right now and barring up. Mike Lenehan LenehanAudio Dead right Mike. They are always just under the surface of the woodwork, ever ready and willing to intervene, lecture and belittle, lest anyone should be having any fun or exercising their freedom of choice as consenting adults 2
Pops110 Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Good post Mike thanks for that. They are just such a pain in the bum to work with. Can you get enough torque on the screws? I would have thought having normal screws tensioned tighter would sound better. Could it not introduce more resonance having the drivers not fitted off as tight? There must be a reason it sounds better, thanks for sharing and experimenting Mike. Cheers Dave.
rawl99 Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 On 12/07/2014 at 11:08 AM, Pops110 said: Good post Mike thanks for that. They are just such a pain in the bum to work with. Can you get enough torque on the screws? I would have thought having normal screws tensioned tighter would sound better. Could it not introduce more resonance having the drivers not fitted off as tight? There must be a reason it sounds better, thanks for sharing and experimenting Mike. Cheers Dave. Dave, Tighter is not necessarily better in this instance. There will be a particular torque point that works best. Mike has done a lot of experimenting wrt this aspect. I know, I have heard the results along the way. My postulate is that the brass ( or copper) screws have a higher inherent damping than the steel screws which are quite possibly "ringing" with the vibration of the speaker driver housing. Thus the apparently higher torque with the steel screw is potentially not as effectively coupling the speaker basket to the cabinet.
Lenehan Audio Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 On 12/07/2014 at 10:56 AM, Phantom said: Dead right Mike. They are always just under the surface of the woodwork, ever ready and willing to intervene, lecture and belittle, lest anyone should be having any fun or exercising their freedom of choice as consenting adults Agreed Phantom. If we all had a chance to get a buzz out of our pass time ! Wouldn't we all prefer it to be a placebo rather than an actual drug ? My mum has just showed some signs of dementia , ok her world is now a little more confined ! We might say less realistic but I can tell you I won't be continually confronting her with my version of the world, real or not. Guess this post has more to do with outlook than brass screws though. Regards Mike Lenehan 1
rawl99 Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 On 12/07/2014 at 10:51 AM, LenehanAudio said: Hi Pops110. About 8 years ago I heard about how brass driver screws sounded better than the normal steel screws . Ok I thought about this and concluded ! Ahh No , insane audio tweeky nutism !!! But for a reason I can't remember I gave it a go . Amazing , it worked ! But to confirm this I enlisted the help of the first dedicated audiophile that came into the shop , this was in fact rawl99 so maybe he can also confirm our findings. From approximately 6 blind comparisons rawl99 picked the ML1 with the brass screws as superior to the ML1 with the standard M4 25mm steel cap screw. There was Research done as to why this could have happened and what we have learned has culminated in actually having custom copper screws manufactured. Our research indicates these screws should be superior and sound better again than the Brass screws. At this time we have not actually confirmed that this is the case but I think ( famous last words ) that they will be . I hope this doesn't result in !! terminal ignition !! As I'm sure the <Cables Make No Difference > crew will be experiencing goose bumps right now and barring up. In any case Pops that's why we use copper screws. Mike Lenehan LenehanAudio We all know that cables sound the same and bits is bits because all digital sources sound the same. I think my view on cables is pretty well known. The difference that I heard from the screw change was so significant that I thought Mike had changed the crossover in some fairly significant way. I was walked into a dark room and told to sit and listen. " to what" I asked. "just listen" was the reply. And so I did and indeed I could have happily picked 20/20 or 50/50 so clear was the IMPROVEMENT not DIFFERENCE. Mike and I have had numerous discussions about probable/possible reasons and my other post just made is my best guesstimate. I believe an accelerometer may have had an outing or three during the testing phase of the screws and torque optimization. In this silly game we play it is fundamentally amazing the difference/improvement apparently insignificant or subtle hings can make. Cheers 1
Lenehan Audio Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 On 12/07/2014 at 11:08 AM, Pops110 said: Good post Mike thanks for that. They are just such a pain in the bum to work with. Can you get enough torque on the screws? I would have thought having normal screws tensioned tighter would sound better. Could it not introduce more resonance having the drivers not fitted off as tight? There must be a reason it sounds better, thanks for sharing and experimenting Mike. Cheers Dave. Hi Dave Yup it was bloody hell getting a copper Allen Head screw to handle even the low tensions we use ( 3 prototypes were sent from the factory) the tension is quite critical and quite low. Tensioning the screws too tight produces an amazing reduction in performance . If the screws are unequal or incorrectly tensioned against the baffle the woofer basket rings and it's audible. Using a tension driver also produces better basket damping and concurrent 3D resolution(BELIEVE IT Oooooooor NOT ! Where did I put that bloody packet of placebo's? ). Regards. Mike Lenehan 1
Lenehan Audio Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 On 12/07/2014 at 12:25 PM, rawl99 said: We all know that cables sound the same and bits is bits because all digital sources sound the same. I think my view on cables is pretty well known. The difference that I heard from the screw change was so significant that I thought Mike had changed the crossover in some fairly significant way. I was walked into a dark room and told to sit and listen. " to what" I asked. "just listen" was the reply. And so I did and indeed I could have happily picked 20/20 or 50/50 so clear was the IMPROVEMENT not DIFFERENCE. Mike and I have had numerous discussions about probable/possible reasons and my other post just made is my best guesstimate. I believe an accelerometer may have had an outing or three during the testing phase of the screws and torque optimization. In this silly game we play it is fundamentally amazing the difference/improvement apparently insignificant or subtle hings can make. Cheers Absolutely rawl99 What is just nutty stuff today will be boring Yada Yada fact tomorrow ! Fancy parts are great , the Duelund caps for instance are just phenomenal but mostly it's an assembly of boring endless inexpensive bits that thanklessly produce the goods. I'm glad you remember this so well . Regards Mike Lenehan
Pops110 Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 On 12/07/2014 at 12:42 PM, LenehanAudio said: Hi Dave Yup it was bloody hell getting a copper Allen Head screw to handle even the low tensions we use ( 3 prototypes were sent from the factory) the tension is quite critical and quite low. Tensioning the screws too tight produces an amazing reduction in performance . If the screws are unequal or incorrectly tensioned against the baffle the woofer basket rings and it's audible. Using a tension driver also produces better basket damping and concurrent 3D resolution(BELIEVE IT Oooooooor NOT ! Where did I put that bloody packet of placebo's? ). Regards. Mike Lenehan That's why I'm not a speaker designer.Cheers Dave.
ljmac Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) I think the reason brass screws sound better than steel is simple: they're non-magnetic. If that's the case, then copper screws shouldn't sound any better. At least I hope so, because I sure as hell don't trust myself to replace them, and there's no way I'm going to lift those massive little suckers off my speaker stands again unless I really have to. Edited July 12, 2014 by ljmac
Monkeyboi Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 Hilarious video. Thanks for posting. Somehow I can't come to grips with the news Mario has sold all​ his gear (or did I misread that bit???). After spending a small fortune on modifications, specialised parts and no doubt thousands of hours of tweaking he is now systemless????? Sanity check please.......... Cheers, Alan 1
Peter_F Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 On 12/07/2014 at 12:42 PM, LenehanAudio said: Hi Dave Yup it was bloody hell getting a copper Allen Head screw to handle even the low tensions we use ( 3 prototypes were sent from the factory) the tension is quite critical and quite low. Tensioning the screws too tight produces an amazing reduction in performance . If the screws are unequal or incorrectly tensioned against the baffle the woofer basket rings and it's audible. Using a tension driver also produces better basket damping and concurrent 3D resolution(BELIEVE IT Oooooooor NOT ! Where did I put that bloody packet of placebo's? ). Regards. Mike Lenehan @ Hi Mike Did you do any comparisons with stainless steel screws? Cheers Pete
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