RRP price list. How much is that.........?

[sir sanders zingmore]

22 minutes ago, Rori said:

Fair point, I didn't take that into consideration. Only thing I'll say to that is the yearly average was .90 with a high of .95 and a low of .81 according to a quick google, so not quite $27,680. Still possible to haggle them down to whatever that new figure is.

 

I might have to find a product that more closely shows my point of view Hopefully I can!

Having worked for many years in FX hedging, I know it’s a tricky job to manage this risk. I bet all those importers who bought their stock before the AUD strengthened were  getting hassled by customers for not reducing their prices after the event. 
Similarly when the currency weakens they probably get hassled for passing on the increased costs. 

[Rori]

3 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

 

15% inflation takes price to $21,260

 

AUDUSD in 2014 was about .9500

AUDUSD now is about .7300

That takes $21,260 to $27,680

I’m sure you could haggle them down to that. 

Can you show how you did the maths please mate?

 

I'm trying to get the same figures as you, but I'm not able to. I may be missing something.

[57John]

On 19/7/2014 at 8:45 PM, ehtcom said:

This really, really, really cheeses me off!

I refuse to purchase products without rrp listed.

I'd rather shop elsewhere, even if it means a different brand.

And yet you can’t quote rrp on ads here. Typically retailers are keen to give you a discount esp on premium gear mentioned so far here. They readily share the rrp with you at the time of audition and price negotiations. Sometimes there are supply issues that impact the discussion of rrp. Next delivery may come at a new price, so it’s not necessarily a static situation either.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, 57John said:

And yet you can’t quote rrp on ads here.

 

That's incorrect. In fact, by the rules, we encourage you to include the RRP within ads. 

[57John]

Hi Marc

I just read a notice that specifically outlawed any mention of pricing RRP or deductions of RRP and I have been instructed to remove such information from my ads. And I just took off the rrp from my latest ad.

Edited March 19, 2022 by 57John
Simplify

[57John]

9 minutes ago, Marc said:

 

That's incorrect. In fact, by the rules, we encourage you to include the RRP within ads. 

Maybe this has me confused 

 

do not include any mention of the price in the body of your ad other than the Price field, or your ad will not be approved.

 

So I’ve quoted rrp and said my offer is $X less than rrp, is this ok?

 

 Thanks Marc much appreciated

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, 57John said:

Hi Marc

I just read a notice that specifically outlawed any mention of pricing RRP or deductions of RRP and I have been instructed to remove such information from my ads. And I just took off the rrp from my latest ad.

 

Nah you've never been asked to remove the RRP from your advertisement. That has never been a rule here.

All we ask is that the Price goes in the Price field - and nowhere else.

 

Highlighted below:

[57John]

3 minutes ago, Marc said:

 

Nah you've never been asked to remove the RRP from your advertisement. That has never been a rule here.

All we ask is that the Price goes in the Price field - and nowhere else.

 

Highlighted below:

Got it. Thanks Marc

[sir sanders zingmore]

2 hours ago, Rori said:

Can you show how you did the maths please mate?

 

I'm trying to get the same figures as you, but I'm not able to. I may be missing something.

Not sure how valid this is but:

- convert AUD to USD at 0.9500

- add 15% inflation to the USD figure 

- convert inflated USD amount back to AUD at 0.7300

The reality is probably more complex as the we haven’t taken US inflation into account. 
 

A better way might be if we knew the USD price back then and compared it to the current USD price - that would give us the actual inflation component (given that it is priced in USD)

 

[frankn]

What about housing, try doing what you are suggesting with that!  
Your entire premise is flawed unfortunately. It’s what the market will support that determines price, a few lone holdouts from SNA won’t make a jot of difference. Same as it has ever been.  Perceived value is subject to dynamic forces, almost none are based in logic, inflation, economics et. al.  
 

[Rori]

4 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

Not sure how valid this is but:

- convert AUD to USD at 0.9500

- add 15% inflation to the USD figure 

- convert inflated USD amount back to AUD at 0.7300

The reality is probably more complex as the we haven’t taken US inflation into account. 
 

A better way might be if we knew the USD price back then and compared it to the current USD price - that would give us the actual inflation component (given that it is priced in USD)

 

Cheers.

 

Going by this math, the average at 0.90 for 2014 should be more like $26,200 roughly, vs $27,995 that it is.

I think you're right that there is more to it though, and I don't think it works in the customers favour, just a hunch.

 

I found the RRP in 2014 for the MC1.2's at $21,000 USD a pair. That's $10,500 USD each compared with $18,495 AUD. That seems a lot more than the Aus to US dollar conversion would imply. Seems someone was being very greedy back then more so than now.

 

My point in any case is audio has become further unobtainable to the common man with these rich prices that I now don't think just comes down to dollar conversions.

 

If anyone can explain why, that would be great. Otherwise I think keeping this thread up to date with recommended retail pricing can only be a good thing to customers and audio enthusiasts.

[Ryan Ayers]

20 hours ago, Rori said:

Hey Fella's,

I hope this thread gets more attention, what a great thread that was started for history's sake. In some cases, it can keep dealers honest, because we all know prices have gotten very silly. Especially today, take the McIntosh MC1.2kW for eg. $18,495rrp in 2014, and today according to Vision Hifi's website it is $27,995rrp.

https://www.visionhifi.com.au/hi-fi/mcintosh-mc12kw-mono-power-amplifier-/pid-Go

I realise the new model is now out at an RRP of $29,995.

Taking into account inflation since 2014 of +~15%, it doesn't check out. It is just greed pure and simple, and we need to keep companies in check. Threads like this will do that to some extent.

Please don't write that this thread is unfair to companies trying to make a living etc. They will always cry poor me, just look at the statistics if you can find older prices vs now. It's quite telling.

I'll try to find some more rrp pricing as well.

Cheers

That is really interesting to see, I purchased a 462 last year that wasn't that far away from that pricing.  I agree the increases seem "over & above" but it would seem there's plenty of margin left to get close to pricing from 8 years ago.

[Tweaky]

RRP...Ah, I remember when that used to be the bargaining starting price when you went into a store to purchase some gear, NOBODY paid RRP, even the most gormless idiot wandering in off the street would get a discount from that.

Seldom any more it seems, especially since Covid and most sales have been done online.

You see all the stores are advertising the same mainstream gear usually within only around $50 difference in RRP, if that, and since they know all the other stores are doing the same they know that any attempt at price matching is futile, so you end up paying whats being asked, and maybe get a pair of cables chucked in with the deal.

 

This is absolutely true, and I couldn't believe the store owner actually had the audacity to say it to my face, but when I went to buy my last gear [Totaled to $21K sale ] , and I managed to begrudgingly  get a $1000 of a Technics SL-1200G turntable because I had found a site that was selling it at that price, he said, "It doesn't matter, I'm making a fortune off you anyway "

 

Unless you see a website that has "Call for price" on a particular item, you are in this day and age unlikely to get much if anything off a RRP it seems, even if you by a heap of gear in one go.

Price collusion, if not down right fixing by the distributors, made easy for them to do since Covid which has caused both manufacturing and transportation problem = short supply, has lead to this situation.

Happy days for a HiFi retailer it would seem.

[Hydrology]

5 hours ago, Tweaky said:

he said, "It doesn't matter, I'm making a fortune off you anyway "

 

Unless you see a website that has "Call for price" on a particular item, you are in this day and age unlikely to get much if anything off a RRP it seems, even if you by a heap of gear in one go.

Price collusion, if not down right fixing by the distributors, made easy for them to do since Covid which has caused both manufacturing and transportation problem = short supply, has lead to this situation.

Happy days for a HiFi retailer it would seem.

 

Unless you have actual facts of this I will tell you there is NO SUCH thing as price collusion in this industry. Considering most dealers consider every other dealer "the competition", this is never going to happen. You make it sound like a mafiosa table sit down by the heads of the families. 

I also think your dealer who made the comment above was either joking, or actually is an a*****e because no dealer I know, with the brands and the profit margin available from most brands, is NOT making a fortune. I've said it time and time again, there are easier industries to work in to make money.

We recently took on Devialet for the simple reason being a good brand with great product that allows us to offer something different and another solution to some of our clientele. The profit margin on this brand is quite shocking (as in bad), yet already we have been witness to some online discounting and knowing what price EVERY dealer pays for his/her stock, it boggles the mind that its even happening. The bigger issue with this scenario is that it creates the illusion that there are good discounts possible from this brand and then all brands.

As in industry worker, I am happy to answer (as best I can within reason) questions relating to the inner workings of the industry, but let me start with a few facts.

 

Profit margin is not the same for every brand, even brands within one distribution company have different GP.

Some dealers are better to deal with than others.

Some dealers have no clue how to sell.

Some dealers have no clue how to retain margin (WHICH PAYS THE BLOODY BILLS!!)

Some dealers are also distributors, which can, in some cases, make the problem discussed in this thread even worse.

From a financial perspective, some brands are not worth selling (low margin, stock requirements etc).

 

 

[Tweaky]

6 hours ago, Hydrology said:

Unless you have actual facts of this I will tell you there is NO SUCH thing as price collusion in this industry.

 

MATE, HE SAID IT TO MY FACE !!!!

 

Selling Devilelet is NOT a MAJOR brand.

 

I'm talking about the brands that are sold the most, the ones you see the biggest turnover of, the ones the distributors and dealers are calling the shots on

Marantz, Sony, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Technics , KEF, etc.

 

Apart from me actually recording the conversation that went down , which obviously didn't happen, as I was neither expecting it, nor thought I would need it to brought up later  as evidence that the ever happened.

 

Maybe part of your spiel is correct,

or actually is an a*****e

 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Tweaky

[Hydrology]

22 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

 

MATE, HE SAID IT TO MY FACE !!!!

 

Selling Devilelet is NOT a MAJOR brand.

 

I'm talking about the brands that are sold the most, the ones you see the biggest turnover of, the ones the distributors and dealers are calling the shots on

Marantz, Sony, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Technics , KEF, etc.

 

Apart from me actually recording the conversation that went down , which obviously didn't happen, as I was neither expecting it, nor thought I would need it to brought up later  as evidence that the ever happened.

 

I never said he didnt say it (read my post again).

So the "fact" that he said what he said, means he speaks for the whole industry and it must be true of every sale that ever happens? And based on his comment that he is "making a fortune off you", you have somehow deduced that the whole industry is somehow conspiring against the people that keep the industry employed? This isn't the tobacco industry - its a luxury goods industry. 

 

I didnt ask your opinion of Devialet - I used the brand as an example of some of the things that are wrong in the industry and the discounting creates a false sense of excessive profit margins to begin with.

 

My post above or in this post is not an attack on you, but as somebody who works in this industry in both retail, distribution (new) and as a customer, some of the things mentioned in this thread (and others as it seems to keep coming up in new threads) are just plain incorrect, hence my open invitation to try help those interested (again, with restraint) in understanding the back end of the industry.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Hydrology
Spelling

[Hydrology]

I will also add to my facts list a couple of posts above and say that

 

There are some dealers who seem to have dubious business practices (based on anecdotal evidence on SNA or client conversations) and yet have great success and there are those dealers who constantly do the right thing and find themselves less-than successful compared to what you may think.

[Tweaky]

1 minute ago, Hydrology said:

I will also add to my facts list a couple of posts above and say that

 

There are some dealers who seem to have dubious business practices (based on anecdotal evidence on SNA or client conversations)

 

Yes, this is not only apparently, but realistically true, as have been reported by forum members on numerous occasions,

Yet it has seemingly more becoming, the side taken by this forum has been to try to diminish or dismiss this as a minor infraction, or aberration within the industry.

 

Names of "Those who have done wrong" are vetted.

 

Those in the industry who post here should be helping weeding out the ones that are pulling down those that are impacting on their businesses.

Instead its a "You can't name them" situation.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

This forum generally has to pick which side of the fence its going to serve the best, the industry, or the consumer......that former can't exist without the latter

 

 

[Hydrology]

13 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

 

Yes, this is not only apparently, but realistically true, as have been reported by forum members on numerous occasions,

Yet it has seemingly more becoming, the side taken by this forum has been to try to diminish or dismiss this as a minor infraction, or aberration within the industry.

 

Names of "Those who have done wrong" are vetted.

 

Those in the industry who post here should be helping weeding out the ones that are pulling down those that are impacting on their businesses.

Instead its a "You can't name them" situation.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

This forum generally has to pick which side of the fence its going to serve the best, the industry, or the consumer......that former can't exist without the latter

 

 

Choosing your retailer is not something that can be done on a forum, it needs to be done in the real world. People need to go to bricks n mortar stores and get a "feel". One person's "amazing experience" of a retailer doesn't hold true for everybody, for a number of reasons. Likewise, those with a bad experience can't really speak for everybody else's experiences.

 

I remember getting a negative review for no other reason than we "dont sell Naim gear". Kinda harsh don't you think?

 

Anyway, I think the topic has somewhat derailed from its original discussion - I dont feel RRP prices are suppressed in the interest of lining distributors or dealers pockets. Usually this reason comes from the manufacturer.

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Hydrology

[art of SOUND]

For transparency I aim to keep all RRP available for the brands I represent, on our website. 

[Tweaky]

OK, .here is a can of worms for you both Hydrology and art of SOUND, since you are both dealers in HiFi.

 

How close to the RRP price of any particular piece of equipment you have listed as RRP, of the average sale,  is it to your actual selling price?

 

I somewhat think it won't be amount of any real significance unless bought with a lot of other gear, or at least some other gear.

 

In the "Olden Days" of HiFi purchase, a good bargainer could expect around at least 15-20% off on a purchase of equivalent of today's RRP $30-40K purcahse

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Tweaky

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 hour ago, Tweaky said:

OK, .here is a can of worms for you both Hydrology and art of SOUND, since you are both dealers in HiFi.

 

How close to the RRP price of any particular piece of equipment you have listed as RRP, of the average sale,  is it to your actual selling price?

Do you really think that question is reasonable?

[Hydrology]

14 hours ago, Tweaky said:

OK, .here is a can of worms for you both Hydrology and art of SOUND, since you are both dealers in HiFi.

 

How close to the RRP price of any particular piece of equipment you have listed as RRP, of the average sale,  is it to your actual selling price?

 

I somewhat think it won't be amount of any real significance unless bought with a lot of other gear, or at least some other gear.

 

In the "Olden Days" of HiFi purchase, a good bargainer could expect around at least 15-20% off on a purchase of equivalent of today's RRP $30-40K purcahse

 

Im not quite reading the question right - are you asking me how much dealer margin there is? If so, you know I cant answer that for many reasons, more so because it does differ from product/brand/distributor.

 

I would actually say that discounting is probably more rampant now than before - most sales consultants seem to have lost the art of selling their services and relationships as value add. Bargaining down is probably less than it was before, due to how advertising has changed the landscape.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Hydrology

[rantan]

14 hours ago, Tweaky said:

OK, .here is a can of worms for you both Hydrology and art of SOUND, since you are both dealers in HiFi.

 

How close to the RRP price of any particular piece of equipment you have listed as RRP, of the average sale,  is it to your actual selling price?

 

I somewhat think it won't be amount of any real significance unless bought with a lot of other gear, or at least some other gear.

 

In the "Olden Days" of HiFi purchase, a good bargainer could expect around at least 15-20% off on a purchase of equivalent of today's RRP $30-40K purchase

 

 

So let me get this straight.

 

Why do you feel that running an audio business makes you are charitable foundation for audiophiles and what exactly is evil about these businesses making a fair profit?

There are many other industries where people never dream of expecting a discount and they are often those with the highest profit margins.

 

Typically, if an audio business is retail the margins on most of what they sell are fairly thin and their costs of just staying open for business are very high.

 

Importers and distributors do make more profit as a percentage but nobody asks them for a discount ( and rightly so )

[klm]

14 hours ago, Tweaky said:

OK, .here is a can of worms for you both Hydrology and art of SOUND, since you are both dealers in HiFi.

 

How close to the RRP price of any particular piece of equipment you have listed as RRP, of the average sale,  is it to your actual selling price?

 

I somewhat think it won't be amount of any real significance unless bought with a lot of other gear, or at least some other gear.

 

In the "Olden Days" of HiFi purchase, a good bargainer could expect around at least 15-20% off on a purchase of equivalent of today's RRP $30-40K purcahse

 

I’m always wanting to save a wad full of cash, what line of work do you do for a crust? You seem to be proactive for the customer and you never know, you may be able to work hard for less and make me smile.