proftournesol Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Apparently Porsche dealers are taking Mission-E deposits... ...the historically ominous words apply: the Germans are coming! I doubt that they'll sell many here at their price, it's rumoured to be double the price of a Model S. Of course that's only their first model... 1
betty boop Posted July 27, 2016 Author Posted July 27, 2016 I doubt that they'll sell many here at their price, it's rumoured to be double the price of a Model S. Of course that's only their first model... in that stratosphere is price relevant. people who want it will just get it I suspect 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 I doubt that they'll sell many here at their price, it's rumoured to be double the price of a Model S. Of course that's only their first model... Really depends what it is, does and what their targets are. Remember... the S isn't a panacea. It's got limitations too. @@betty boop is right.
proftournesol Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Yes of course but the Porsche will have an additional limitation of no rapid charging network 1
ufo Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 We are in for a real treat if the Model S is any indication. Do I miss the lack of torque? No way Do I miss the vroom vroom noise? Nope Do I miss the gear changes? Nup Do I miss the smelly dinosaur juice and the fumes? Not at all Do I miss the vibration and general drive train crudity? No There'll be no going back to ICE after you've driven a decent EV. The only hurdles for the traditional makers is the lack of a high power charging network and their $ per kWh costs I 100% agree after owning an Outlander PHEV for 2 years. Our Annual fuel bill went down from $3.5K to less than $ 200 and electiricity increased around $400 annually, laughing all the way to petrol station . 1
Guest jakeyb77 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 I 100% agree after owning an Outlander PHEV for 2 years. Our Annual fuel bill went down from $3.5K to less than $ 200 and electiricity increased around $400 annually, laughing all the way to petrol station . While this may be the view of some I prefer the ground shaking rumble of my gas guzzling V8. As for the fuel bill well all of my excesses have a cost that I'm willing to pay.
proftournesol Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 While this may be the view of some I prefer the ground shaking rumble of my gas guzzling V8. As for the fuel bill well all of my excesses have a cost that I'm willing to pay. Jake you'll prefer the rumble of your V8 until you have the effortless neck snapping acceleration of an EV 1
Guest jakeyb77 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Jake you'll prefer the rumble of your V8 until you have the effortless neck snapping acceleration of an EV I just miss the sound. But to be honest mine sits in the garage a lot as the fun police seem to be everywhere but it's nice to take out once in a while. I had to Google how the Tesla door handles work the other day as I was intrigued. While I understand that the resources are finite and polluting there is something I'll miss about working on a car with my boys.
ufo Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 I just miss the sound. But to be honest mine sits in the garage a lot as the fun police seem to be everywhere but it's nice to take out once in a while. I had to Google how the Tesla door handles work the other day as I was intrigued. While I understand that the resources are finite and polluting there is something I'll miss about working on a car with my boys. Yeah, I have a fun car too (A slightly modified XR6T pumping out 300KWs to rear wheels) sitting in the garage almost all of the time due to the same reason. But do still take it to back country roads now and then and give it a good run, that wossshhhh coming from the turbo pressure relief valve is just so addictive
Guest rmpfyf Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Yes of course but the Porsche will have an additional limitation of no rapid charging network Doubt many owners would care, and at any rate, Ze Germans are coming up with their own standard. Rapid charging - no offence! - is a bit of a w**kfest unless you're trying to do very long distances with a car that wasn't designed for it, or very fast turnaround (e.g. fleet charging), or you're just trying to prove you can run your car with someone else paying for it by skyving off a local s/c install and using it for something it wasn't intended. Otherwise from every other perspective - installation cost, network charges, environmental impact, etc - it sucks. The average car is parked 22 hours/day. More AC chargers make more sense. For most people, as long as you've got one at home, you're OK. And frankly with three-phase AC coming to market now and starting to compete with medium-power DC charging on premium EVs, the range difference practically is bugger all. A 22kW three-phase AC charge will add 150-250km range an hour, has very little infrastructure cost penalty - again, this really relegates DC-fast to EVs trying to do what FCV's do with ease, or fleet charging for taxis/rideshares/etc. Otherwise, DC-fast is only attractive to customers in lieu of education. While this may be the view of some I prefer the ground shaking rumble of my gas guzzling V8. As for the fuel bill well all of my excesses have a cost that I'm willing to pay. Have both. Admittedly ICE is going to way of a historical/hobby thing, but that's not bad either. Had a drive of a Clubsport yesterday... for what it is, you forget how good a car it is. After 2 years with a PHEV though, The time when the HSV would've passed for a daily driver though feel forever ago.
Guest jakeyb77 Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Haha love it. My cammed R8 clubby never gets pushed too much. Sounds good idling. But I did take it on a trip to QLD last year. Out the back of Goondiwindi I opened it up and there was nothing but tumbleweeds and one opportunistic copper. Back in the good old days we once did a trip from Brisbane to Melbourne in 12 hours. I wonder how many of us have these things hiding in our garages? We might end up in a Mad Max style fuel war in some time to come haha Edited July 28, 2016 by jakeyb77
proftournesol Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Doubt many owners would care, and at any rate, Ze Germans are coming up with their own standard. Rapid charging - no offence! - is a bit of a w**kfest unless you're trying to do very long distances with a car that wasn't designed for it, or very fast turnaround (e.g. fleet charging), or you're just trying to prove you can run your car with someone else paying for it by skyving off a local s/c install and using it for something it wasn't intended. Otherwise from every other perspective - installation cost, network charges, environmental impact, etc - it sucks. The average car is parked 22 hours/day. More AC chargers make more sense. For most people, as long as you've got one at home, you're OK. And frankly with three-phase AC coming to market now and starting to compete with medium-power DC charging on premium EVs, the range difference practically is bugger all. A 22kW three-phase AC charge will add 150-250km range an hour, has very little infrastructure cost penalty - again, this really relegates DC-fast to EVs trying to do what FCV's do with ease, or fleet charging for taxis/rideshares/etc. Otherwise, DC-fast is only attractive to customers in lieu of education. Have both. Admittedly ICE is going to way of a historical/hobby thing, but that's not bad either. Had a drive of a Clubsport yesterday... for what it is, you forget how good a car it is. After 2 years with a PHEV though, The time when the HSV would've passed for a daily driver though feel forever ago. AC chargers may make sense but there isn't the infrastructure for that either. Even though you and I know that a 100km EV range car is sufficient for most, at least as a city car, it's a hard sell as one of the myths used to sell cars has always been 'freedom' and people buy on the myth not the reality. I agree that when EVs have a 1000km range that fast transit chargers are less important but who is going to spend $350,000 on a Porsche that they can't really drive out of town? You'll never be able to do that mythical Melbourne - Sydney drive (not that anyone actually does it but that isn't the point) 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 AC chargers may make sense but there isn't the infrastructure for that either. Even though you and I know that a 100km EV range car is sufficient for most, at least as a city car, it's a hard sell as one of the myths used to sell cars has always been 'freedom' and people buy on the myth not the reality. AC's easy at home, easy in the workplace and workable in destinations. If you live somewhere without a car space that's a bit different, but for homeowners it's very straightforwards and your average L2 EVSE will pay itself off within a year. Then you're winning forever. 1000km range is a fallacy. No one needs or wants it. People get by on 500km just fine. People get by on 250km just fine. Having done ICE > HV > PHEV / EV a few times now people get sick of turning up to gas stations, not range anxiety. If you want mega range, get a car with energy density. No amount of Elon worship is going to change the fact that good li-ion has energy density of 1.5-2MJ/L, and that petrol/diesel's over fifteen times that, and still more than five times after conversion efficiencies. Hydrogen kills batteries here too. EVs are not about ultimate range. People begging for DC-fast on every street corner or 1000km range out of their EVs are wishing on technologies that don't yet exist or are acolytes to marketing spin. They're certainly not environmentalists or anywhere near reality. Tesla made a car with a 65/85kWh battery because financially it doesn't make sense to sell one smaller. it's less about demand than you'd think. Accordingly, it's a car that carries ~500kg of battery. There are other ways of skinning that cat. If you want to travel distances and don't like FCV tech, get a PHEV. I thought the Volt was epic until the i3 - a great way forwards. Abut who is going to spend $350,000 on a Porsche that they can't really drive out of town? Same people that spend it now
betty boop Posted August 3, 2016 Author Posted August 3, 2016 Isn't that US price? @@ufo here you go confirmed model X local prices ... EXCLUDING on road costs.... so yeah $122 k + to 201k + Tesla Model X prices* Tesla Model X 60D - $122,812 Tesla Model X 75D - $139,842 Tesla Model X 90D - $163,242 Tesla Model X P90D - $201,072 All prices include luxury car tax but exclude on-road costs Read more: http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/tesla-model-x-full-pricing-revealed-20160803-gqjwv0.html#ixzz4GGXVGNPe 1
hybridfiat Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 I would look seriously at an engine-motor replacement if the makers ever got their act together. Lift the motor gearbox out and drop in an electric motor coupled to the drive train and put batteries where ever they will fit. I'd convert one of my X1-9s to electric if it were economical to do so. 1
betty boop Posted August 3, 2016 Author Posted August 3, 2016 I would look seriously at an engine-motor replacement if the makers ever got their act together. Lift the motor gearbox out and drop in an electric motor coupled to the drive train and put batteries where ever they will fit. I'd convert one of my X1-9s to electric if it were economical to do so. there was a crowd doing that locally... not quite same thing... as a ground up... 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Tesla Model X prices... Outlander PHEV looking very good right now I would look seriously at an engine-motor replacement if the makers ever got their act together. Lift the motor gearbox out and drop in an electric motor coupled to the drive train and put batteries where ever they will fit. I'd convert one of my X1-9s to electric if it were economical to do so. Maaaaaate... a few have done this... Don't chop a classic. Your car is beautiful and that engine is special. EVs will come down in price and your X1/9s will increase. You win forever and have the best of both worlds. I think anyone with a working X1/9 is winning... awesome little car.
ufo Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 @@ufo here you go confirmed model X local prices ... EXCLUDING on road costs.... so yeah $122 k + to 201k + Tesla Model X prices* Tesla Model X 60D - $122,812 Tesla Model X 75D - $139,842 Tesla Model X 90D - $163,242 Tesla Model X P90D - $201,072 All prices include luxury car tax but exclude on-road costs Read more: http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/tesla-model-x-full-pricing-revealed-20160803-gqjwv0.html#ixzz4GGXVGNPe I am surprised, was expecting prices to start from 200K in AU.
Guest jakeyb77 Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Wow! I didn't realise the prices of these cars. I am interested to see what the second hand market will support in regard to this market. Petrol cars in this price range drop a HUGE amount. Will electric cars hold their value or will people run once the warranty is out of time?
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 4, 2016 Posted August 4, 2016 Wow! I didn't realise the prices of these cars. I am interested to see what the second hand market will support in regard to this market. Petrol cars in this price range drop a HUGE amount. Will electric cars hold their value or will people run once the warranty is out of time? I think we'll need to wait for supply to increase before making judgments - right now more people want 'em than actually exist 2nd hand.
Briz Vegas Posted August 4, 2016 Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) What would be like if a conservative government supported electric cars. Here's one i prepared earlier........ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2wLXV6IBlQ4 And charging infrastructure in Holland. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pg0PaUWoPo Edited August 4, 2016 by Briz Vegas 1
betty boop Posted August 30, 2016 Author Posted August 30, 2016 how cool is the e-kick scooter thing peugeot bundles in with their new 3008 suv, the 3008 even comes with a charging dock for the e-kick ! http://en.cycles.peugeot.fr/sheet-bike/ek01/ekick/ 1
betty boop Posted September 4, 2016 Author Posted September 4, 2016 australian made tomcar EV, http://www.tomcar.com.au/blog/tomcar-unveils-australias-first-production-electric-vehicle 100kw peak power, 300 NM peak torque, production starts in november at the oakleigh factory.... 1
eman Posted September 4, 2016 Posted September 4, 2016 Goodluck Tomcar but I would be needing a 'road car' thanks.
Briz Vegas Posted September 4, 2016 Posted September 4, 2016 (edited) I have 2 tomcats. They don't need plugging in but they do use a litter tray and generate small amounts of CO2. As a predominantly weekend drive I need model 3 range but in a golf sized preferably minimalist package. Fully charged show are saying that electric bikes and mopeds predominate in Chinese cities. Is this true? Makes sense if it can be done safely. Less is more but at the same time I don't want to die on my commute, particularly under an SUV driven by a neaderthal that thinks wasting fossil fuel and hating cyclists is a birthright. Edited September 4, 2016 by Briz Vegas 1 1
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