TomAus Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 From Bloomberg: “By 2020 there will be over 120 different models of EV across the spectrum,” said Michael Liebreich, founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance. “These are great cars. They will make the internal combustion equivalent look old fashioned.”
Guest rmpfyf Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, TomAus said: From Bloomberg: “By 2020 there will be over 120 different models of EV across the spectrum,” said Michael Liebreich, founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance. “These are great cars. They will make the internal combustion equivalent look old fashioned.” Then there's our million-dollar question... how many of these will be for sale in Australia in 2020? There's a rumour that Renault's Zoe 2 is coming a lot sooner than we might think. Would be a good start.
Full Range Posted May 6, 2017 Posted May 6, 2017 This is not an electric car but Mag Lev Its a VW People's car 1
TomAus Posted May 7, 2017 Posted May 7, 2017 On 5/5/2017 at 1:15 PM, rmpfyf said: Then there's our million-dollar question... how many of these will be for sale in Australia in 2020? There's a rumour that Renault's Zoe 2 is coming a lot sooner than we might think. Would be a good start. Most likely very few, unfortunately. But we will get there eventually. It would be good if Zoe will be arriving in the not too distant future, as it might help shake things up - particularly if pricing is sharp.
Briz Vegas Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 Not hopeful on a great price but at a Clio RS price I would be doing my sums to see if it could work for me. I only do 10k a year so I don't want to spend the earth, "early" adopter or not. My current car is barely run in but I am keen to show my support for the tech. 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted May 9, 2017 Posted May 9, 2017 10 hours ago, Briz Vegas said: Not hopeful on a great price but at a Clio RS price I would be doing my sums to see if it could work for me. I only do 10k a year so I don't want to spend the earth, "early" adopter or not. My current car is barely run in but I am keen to show my support for the tech. Would be more a leased thing. Could work out quite well on a full service contract.
GregWormald Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 Since there are few electric vehicles with a range exceeding 160 Km, I'd have to rent, at great cost, a different vehicle to go almost anywhere for a weekend, or even a day trip to visit some wineries. As well, until we produce more "green" electricity, the electric car isn't green in Australia. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green Greg 1
proftournesol Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 18 minutes ago, GregWormald said: Since there are few electric vehicles with a range exceeding 160 Km, I'd have to rent, at great cost, a different vehicle to go almost anywhere for a weekend, or even a day trip to visit some wineries. As well, until we produce more "green" electricity, the electric car isn't green in Australia. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green Greg Interesting link you've provided Greg, especially the dialog in the Comments section with someone who calls himself gasdive. Most of the EVs sold in Australia have a range far in excess of 160km, the problem is that the majority of them are Teslas and are expensive to purchase. This will change in the next year with the introduction of the Model 3 and several other EVs with similar range. There will be very few EVs sold in future with a range under 400kms and from personal experience there are very few trips I have made in the last 2 years (none at all) where I've had an range anxiety at all - the best cure for range anxiety is owning an EV 1
ufo Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 18 hours ago, GregWormald said: Since there are few electric vehicles with a range exceeding 160 Km, I'd have to rent, at great cost, a different vehicle to go almost anywhere for a weekend, or even a day trip to visit some wineries. As well, until we produce more "green" electricity, the electric car isn't green in Australia. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green Greg A very good solution to range anxiety at the moment is a Plug in Hybrid like Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. I have owned one for almost 3 years. Pure electric driving during the week because never have to make a trip more than 50 km EV range and if we need to make longer trip on the weekend, petrol engine kicks in either to propel the vehicle or charge the battery or to do both at the same time. Very low fuel consumption when running on petrol, if you don't have a lead right foot, you can achieve 5-6 lt/100 km. our petrol bill have been reduced %90 percent and electricity bill increased only 20%, very happy
betty boop Posted May 11, 2017 Author Posted May 11, 2017 the good thing about the plug in hybrid approach is atleast if you do run out .... can get by. and that sort of fuel economy for a SUV is doing pretty well ! its also bmws approach to the i3 which is probably best of the smaller electric cars at present. otherwise just as suburban run about that renault cleo 2 is looking pretty good.... am sure it would do us fine for 2nd car. though you'd hope they dont price it at $50-$60k ! id rather get my merc a250 back or jump into a golf gti/r or a bmw 125i/135i/140i for that sort of money instead even 40k would be pushing the friendship when consider basically buying a renault cleo sized city car at best. if theyre smart they'll do the lease way as in europe where dont end up wearing the whole cost of car and dont have to worry about it when gets pst use by date etc, especially in these early days of EVs for the masses... 1
GregWormald Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 Hmmm, Tesla S60 vs Porsche 718: price--same 0-100 kph--5.8 vs 4.9 range--240 km (hwy) to 400 km (short trips) vs 850 (city/hwy cycle) refill time--8+ hours vs 5 minutes "green" (equivalent MPG in US gal.)--29 vs 34 I think I'll stick with Porsche. Greg 1
Briz Vegas Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 EnVy Tesla starts with the 75 at about $5k less than the German, and the 90 which does 4.4 sec to 100 and is still in the 718s price band. 4 door family hatchback with almost too much room. I know which I would have and it's not the german. Spend the $5k difference on some audio gear instead. 1
proftournesol Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 There's only one of us in this thread with an EV, there's only one of us without range anxiety about EVs. 4
betty boop Posted May 11, 2017 Author Posted May 11, 2017 23 minutes ago, proftournesol said: There's only one of us in this thread with an EV, there's only one of us without range anxiety about EVs. i wish there were more of us in this thred with EVs prof... maybe in time... we have to be a lot more patient I think... till more suitable options present that suits our needs with suitability, range is but one requirement .... 1
proftournesol Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 It'll start to get harder to buy an ICE vehicle by 2022. not only will most manufacturers offer affordable EVs but petrol margins for retailers are so small that it won't take much of a decrease in volume for petrol stations to become unprofitable. perhaps they'll open charging bays instead although almost everyone with off street parking can charge at home. Charging will become a big money earner for places like shopping centres 2
betty boop Posted May 11, 2017 Author Posted May 11, 2017 48 minutes ago, proftournesol said: It'll start to get harder to buy an ICE vehicle by 2022. not only will most manufacturers offer affordable EVs but petrol margins for retailers are so small that it won't take much of a decrease in volume for petrol stations to become unprofitable. perhaps they'll open charging bays instead although almost everyone with off street parking can charge at home. Charging will become a big money earner for places like shopping centres I hope it gets to the point the shopping centres are covered in solar panels and have subsidised bulk power and actually offer EV bay charging for free ... a bit like those free charging bays at the ferry docs in san fan over 10 years ago. ideal place to have it. charge your car while you shop...drags the punters in... free power... and you then have a captive shopper.. stuck there while their cars charge perhaps in time... 2
proftournesol Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 Similarly, although charging times are sure to drop, highway roadside stops that are currently petrol stations will change, fast food is likely to become medium fast food as drivers and passengers will stop for a little longer and none of them will need to stand by the car pouring in dinosaur juice. 2
Rob181 Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 11 minutes ago, al said: I hope it gets to the point the shopping centres are covered in solar panels and have subsidised bulk power and actually offer EV bay charging for free ... a bit like those free charging bays at the ferry docs in san fan over 10 years ago. Subsidised...free...not in corporate AUS...
betty boop Posted May 11, 2017 Author Posted May 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rob181 said: Subsidised...free...not in corporate AUS... well then something needs to change especially if in the us ... land of the free market that they could do these things 10 years ago !!! 1
proftournesol Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 If you look st the Tesla destination carger map you can see there are already hundreds of Australian businesses that provide free charging for Tesla cars 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 On 2017-5-10 at 3:48 PM, GregWormald said: Since there are few electric vehicles with a range exceeding 160 Km, I'd have to rent, at great cost, a different vehicle to go almost anywhere for a weekend, or even a day trip to visit some wineries. As well, until we produce more "green" electricity, the electric car isn't green in Australia. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green Greg So it isn't for you. Maybe. Or you could use a second car. Some sales arrangements give you just that - buy an i3, get access to an ICE BMW as you need it - works quite well. We've used electrons only in our PHEV for nearly three years with only two tanks of fuel. Works for us. Bit extreme to assume what doesn't fit you doesn't fit Australia. As to your link, if I could offer some corrections: 70g/km for embedded carbon in-vehicle is way off. An Australian-built is around 38g/km over vehicle life, a Camry Hybrid around 42g/km CO2e. The Camry is built in nine factories around the world, and embedded carbon in the AU-built car is quite high - in some countries it's 60% of that, and smaller cars get down to around 40% of as much. Some EVs are down to a legitimate net zero g/km CO2e for manufacturing - yet to be reached by any ICE anywhere. Certainly the difference between EV and ICE in build are well overstated. I'm around 138Wh/km in our Volt and in Victoria (where we're worst) we're at 1.197g/Wh CO2e - so it's some 165g/km CO2e. 6.2L/100km equivalent. I used to get 5.9 L/100KM out of my (prior) Camry Hybrid, though I'll take the difference... the Volt is around $2.48c/km to run, the Camry Hybrid would be around $8.68c/km. It adds up. Where the cited article is BS is carbon intensity by state - Victoria is far and away the worst in the country - equivalent numbers are NSW at 4.8L/100km, QLD at 4.5L/100km, 1.9L/100km for SA and 0.7L/100km for TAS. Pretty solid, and not what the graphics involved suggest - let alone that you can use PV if you like and can. Give it a go as soon as it's affordable to try - most who do don't go back 7 hours ago, GregWormald said: Hmmm, Tesla S60 vs Porsche 718: price--same 0-100 kph--5.8 vs 4.9 range--240 km (hwy) to 400 km (short trips) vs 850 (city/hwy cycle) refill time--8+ hours vs 5 minutes "green" (equivalent MPG in US gal.)--29 vs 34 I think I'll stick with Porsche. I'd get the Porsche for other reasons (I'd actually go the previous generation - which was an excellent drive - get me a blue S), though refill times have never been an issue in any EV I've ever had. Fast charging works well where you've got it, and overnight charging's pretty convenient. You get used to not going to petrol stations. 2 hours ago, proftournesol said: There's only one of us in this thread with an EV, there's only one of us without range anxiety about EVs. Not true! (And I don't just mean the Volt.) 23 minutes ago, al said: I hope it gets to the point the shopping centres are covered in solar panels and have subsidised bulk power and actually offer EV bay charging for free ... a bit like those free charging bays at the ferry docs in san fan over 10 years ago. ideal place to have it. charge your car while you shop...drags the punters in... free power... and you then have a captive shopper.. stuck there while their cars charge This is pretty much ChargePoint's business model - 'install our stuff, attract the punters'. Tesla has destination charging, and there's quite a few emergent network projects in Australia... should be brighter within 5 years. The best proposal I've heard for EV charging in Australia (which you'd probably like, and I do) is to ban profits on EV charging
proftournesol Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 44 minutes ago, rmpfyf said: Not true! (And I don't just mean the Volt.) You have an EV now as well? 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, proftournesol said: You have an EV now as well? I've had a few. The Volt is a current car, will probably keep it long-term - it's just too good at what it does. Car #2, the ICE of the family, will probably get replaced with a s/h i3 BEV when funds allow. Or a 60kWh Model S... if funds allow and if I can find one! One PHEV one BEV will do us nicely. If I had to change the Volt... 330e was pretty impressive, quite quick and lease rates are reasonable... but the Volt's range fits us just fine. Maybe if the new Volt came out here we'd trade up. Edited May 11, 2017 by rmpfyf
Briz Vegas Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 I would just get an electric bike but you would end up as a bonnet ornament on someone's mommy truck. True sustainability should be about having as much car as you need. Currently I am driving a loaner Mitsubishi mirage (long story). It's not great but it's actually fine about town. Fuel wise it does not help however, same MGP as my car and it has 100nm vs 230nm in mine at half revs. Both are 1.2 3 cylinder, a world apart in refinement/performance but a world apart in price as well. My accountant would have me driving the mirage for sure. 1
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