Guest rmpfyf Posted June 2, 2017 Posted June 2, 2017 20 hours ago, Briz Vegas said: The Seinfeld soup guy says no soup for you. Renault say the market isn't right. Ha ha nicely put
Briz Vegas Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Hmmmm. Another flippin SUV. yes, I had a go at trying to decloak the picture, but basic tools gives basic results. Y. Because it was there. Ha har. Edited June 7, 2017 by Briz Vegas 1
betty boop Posted June 7, 2017 Author Posted June 7, 2017 http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/nissan-electric-cars-wont-work-in-australia-20170607-gwm47g.html renault nissan chairman saying no electric cars for you... as in us ... australia that is.... given nissan also owns mitsubishi basically means all the "relatively" affordable ev look like a slim to buckelys chance here...pity... 1
proftournesol Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Briz Vegas said: Hmmmm. Another flippin SUV. yes, I had a go at trying to decloak the picture, but basic tools gives basic results. Y. Because it was there. Ha har. It puts the Y in S3XY 1
Briz Vegas Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, al said: http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/nissan-electric-cars-wont-work-in-australia-20170607-gwm47g.html renault nissan chairman saying no electric cars for you... as in us ... australia that is.... given nissan also owns mitsubishi basically means all the "relatively" affordable ev look like a slim to buckelys chance here...pity... Yes, but then you look at the top 2 selling cars in Australia for months and they are dual cab utes, many of which are justified on the basis of " space for a pram and easy loading of kids, but we know the real reason is image. Prices start at around $30k, but the range seems to centre on about $45k. Australians have the budget for a car that they don't really need, but clearly want. The Model 3 could start at $46,000 based on a simple currency conversion and a once stated Tesla policy of maintaining prices in different markets. So "in theory" a desirable electric car with decent range and a real world price could be delivered in Australia. The car would have to be the must have gadget of the month to be successful even at that ( more than slightly wishful) price. Australians seem to have the car buying desires of Texans. They want to be seen as tough and spending on big slightly dumb stuff is cool, spending on green and sophisticated is almost frowned on. The market I would be focusing on is the solar panel brigade. Yes, the car may be at work all day ( unlike mine, I use PT) but the mindset is there. It may well be a second car beside a fourbie, so the issue may be that those second cars are currently the cheaper hatchbacks that dominate the market just below the Neanderthal mobiles. (Neander-fords, Nissan-erthals, Neander-toyotas) i think Nissan are fishing for a subsidy in this article. I had not heard that Australia are considering one until this article, although it may be slightly more likely given the demise of the Aussie built car. Charging infrastructure is another matter, which is one of chicken and egg I think. We need to bust that paradigm. Edited June 7, 2017 by Briz Vegas 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Briz Vegas said: i think Nissan are fishing for a subsidy in this article. I had not heard that Australia are considering one until this article, although it may be slightly more likely given the demise of the Aussie built car. Charging infrastructure is another matter, which is one of chicken and egg I think. We need to bust that paradigm. Duh. Charging infrastructure has little to do with it - most EV buyers would simply charge at home. Yes, there are people in apartments and whatnot, but even if the addressable market for EVs was 10% of the total new car market, it'd be worth any car maker getting into. One thing missing here is an understanding that most mainstream passenger vehicle makes sell their passenger cars at a loss or very minimal profit in Australia, with their commercial and SUVs making profit. And to do this, most mainstream makes run a strategy of having presence in every market segment. Accordingly there's little sense in bringing in an EV at a very significant loss - that just stuffs up the balance sheets. There's also little sense bringing in some hybrids on the same argument. An AU-relevant example: Toyota could have done the Kluger hybrid here for years, though won't - to sell it to you at an equitable price they'd take a massive hit on it, and you'd want that car - fuel consumption is awesome against what we have here, and what we have here is popular. That's to say a lot of people would want a Kluger hybrid at the right price, and Toyota would struggle to sell it at the right price, and not doing so would risk the Kluger brand in segment, etc etc... This is also why most makes don't have EVs in their mainstream lineup. Why they're branded separate models (even if they're not completely engineered as separate platforms). If alternately your only brand in AU is fully-electric, economically you're very different. You can sell with impunity, and your product's price elasticity in market stands alone. The govt won't offer subsidies where it doesn't have policy leadership. The last discussion paper on fleet emissions standards ended up with 'let's try for Euro 6 and pretend CO2 emissions aren't what we're directly regulating' - that's the basis for EV subsidies in pretty much any other market - and no one's yet worked out where tax revenues from the fuel excise (some ~$13B/year at last count) would come from in an electric vehicle world. Some right-wing nut jobs are already asking to 'tax the Teslas', some nerds in tweed jackets want a distance-travelled-consumption-tax with zero idea of how to implement it, and some saner heads (e.g. ClimateWorks) have put their hands up to say 'yes, but the social and societal benefits EVs bring are worth something too, so maybe time to re-assess where road infrastructure dollars come from'. Like many things in this nation affecting many on this forum: EVs Internet Energy etc We in Australia suffer from a leadership vacuum, and have since the early 2000's... enough to now be truly behind on a global stage. It's a shame. Off to drive my Volt. Bits of which were proudly, actually engineered here by smart Australian people whilst the fed govt was off boiling the ocean for a paycheck.
Briz Vegas Posted June 8, 2017 Posted June 8, 2017 Rmpfyf, you had better make sure I have all my facts straight. I have been asked to participate in an informal EV policy discussion forum. I am listening to your views, though clearly not always agreeing with everything you say. EV charging would be relevant to me as I would need a model three to visit immediate family out of town without a top up, and even that would be just adequate. Real or not it's a barrier in peoples minds to sales. For a two car family it would not be an issue, you take the ICE. According to Renault/ Nissan volume is the barrier to profitability. At 400,000 Tesla seems to have that on its side although it would still rely on upselling with options according to reports. My three would be a loss leader special I am afraid. I always grab a Leaf from the car pool. It's great never having to worry about filling up a car when travelling to metro meetings or site visits. I also like introducing my colleagues to EVs. 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted June 8, 2017 Posted June 8, 2017 3 hours ago, Briz Vegas said: Rmpfyf, you had better make sure I have all my facts straight. I have been asked to participate in an informal EV policy discussion forum. I am listening to your views, though clearly not always agreeing with everything you say. EV charging would be relevant to me as I would need a model three to visit immediate family out of town without a top up, and even that would be just adequate. Real or not it's a barrier in peoples minds to sales. For a two car family it would not be an issue, you take the ICE. According to Renault/ Nissan volume is the barrier to profitability. At 400,000 Tesla seems to have that on its side although it would still rely on upselling with options according to reports. My three would be a loss leader special I am afraid. I always grab a Leaf from the car pool. It's great never having to worry about filling up a car when travelling to metro meetings or site visits. I also like introducing my colleagues to EVs. Briz, you're more than welcome to grab me offline and talk more over phone if you like. I have no doubt some people and some routes need a top up - I've been involved in projects to roll out charging infrastructure and understand your point well - my point is simply that even if we excluded everyone that needed charging anywhere other than home, there's still enough market to justify selling EVs to in lieu of their cost to customers. Charging/range concerns aren't the market barrier most think they are. Primarily... the current barrier in most segments is cost. If we could snap our fingers and carpet-bomb Australia with DC-fast charging infrastructure in the blink of an eye, we'd still have vehicle cost issues in many segments and from many manufacturers. Tesla is a wonderful exception. Renault/Nissan makes the current Leaf in a rather expensive way (by starting with a platform that's not EV-specific), and even then it's a car that competes in the most cost-competitive segment in Australia (B-segment). Economics on the Model S are considerably better. Volume is a barrier to profitability, but if there were 400k Leaf orders a year powertrain costs would still exceed a comparable Pulsar for some time yet. Next-gen Leaf is considerably better to this end. I think at any rate it's a great little car and a hoot to drive (could feel a little more special on the inside, but whatever). I was actually at Laguna Seca during a ReFuel event one year when someone took a Leaf around the circuit to prove just that (I think it's on YouTube)... was hysterical to watch, particularly down the corkscrew - that dude feared nothing Charging infrastructure will come, though largely this will be market driven for the forseeable future. Would be good if there was a subsidy or requirement to prewire all new dwellings for EV charging. Certainly many of the projects I work on have as much, it's not hard and saves a lot.
Briz Vegas Posted June 8, 2017 Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) I may well take you up on that offer. Waiting to hear back regarding details. I am also keeping an eye on the the new Leaf to see what they do with it. We are certainly at an interesting time for new drivetrain technology. Even if you don't care about the environment the EV is still an interesting concept with so few moving parts involved and the extra benefits such as regenerative brakes ( B mode) that can save on brake wear if you drive appropriately. To be honest that is something that I have yet to play with despite driving the Leaf on numerous occasions over the past 3 years or so. I am usually on the way to a meeting and focused on getting there on time rather than trying out the cars features, which is a shame. Driving for work is also more stressful, particularly travelling with others that want to talk shop and resolve stuff while you are dealing with traffic at the same time. Edited June 8, 2017 by Briz Vegas 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted June 8, 2017 Posted June 8, 2017 I've not stuffed around with regen modes on the Leaf. Standard regen on the Volt is a bit weak IMHO, I leave it in high regen all the time and even then it's not strong as it could be. Flappy paddle regen levels on the Outlander PHEV are a surprising amount of fun
betty boop Posted June 8, 2017 Author Posted June 8, 2017 a deal with tesla and stockland is putting their charging into 31 shopping centres http://www.theage.com.au/business/innovation/stockland-to-install-tesla-charge-points-at-31-shopping-centres-across-australia-20170608-gwnghn.html i do hope tesla are taking advantage of their massive roof tops at the same time with some solar and batteries to try harvest some of the energy that they are going to be providing what i do hope doesnt happen with these roll outs is essentially a duplication of services... i.e. a bmw i3 or a nissan leaf turns up at said shopping centra and cant plug in for a charge... 1
proftournesol Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 To an extent that is exactly what will happen as there are competing standards for charging as well. It is somewhat mitigated by the ability to use adapters although you may be carrying a boot full of adaptors with you. 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, al said: a deal with tesla and stockland is putting their charging into 31 shopping centres Destination charging - all about getting punters to hang about 4 hours ago, al said: i do hope tesla are taking advantage of their massive roof tops at the same time with some solar and batteries to try harvest some of the energy that they are going to be providing Prolly not - Tesla likely doesn't pay the power, and if they do, they'd buy credits prior to rolling out hardware on someone else's roofspace 4 hours ago, al said: what i do hope doesnt happen with these roll outs is essentially a duplication of services... i.e. a bmw i3 or a nissan leaf turns up at said shopping centra and cant plug in for a charge... That's the idea... that you're affluent enough to have a Tesla and spend a lot of money. 2 hours ago, proftournesol said: To an extent that is exactly what will happen as there are competing standards for charging as well. It is somewhat mitigated by the ability to use adapters although you may be carrying a boot full of adaptors with you. Not correct. They weren't competing standards until Tesla made it so - they were regional standards, until Tesla went their own way in the US and then adopted Mennekes for rest-of-world with custom signalling. Which was fairly inane. Though their early uptake numbers and brand equity are making it a pretty easy call for destination owners (e.g. Stockland) to go with Tesla. Harking back to earlier comments on leadership, we could have averted this in Australia had the govt gotten involved some time ago... instead, the market will decide which fuel bowser fits your new EV. S**tful. Edited June 9, 2017 by rmpfyf
proftournesol Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 11 hours ago, rmpfyf said: Not correct. They weren't competing standards until Tesla made it so So unfortunately they are now competing standards 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 2 hours ago, proftournesol said: So unfortunately they are now competing standards They are now
betty boop Posted June 9, 2017 Author Posted June 9, 2017 interesting approach by bmw, on back of the word that the i5 concept was shelved, instead it seems with their 5 series they are not charging any more for plug in hybrid tech vs their regular version of the cars. not that a car like this is any more accessible but a good option for those wiht the money for it, http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/2017-bmw-530e-price-and-equipment-20170605-gwkmwu.html "The fence between today and tomorrow's greener pastures has finally been felled as BMW has confirmed its latest fuel-sipping hybrid will cost the same as its petrol-powered equivalent. The German car maker has revealed local specifications and pricing for its 530e executive sedan, the newest member of an expanding range of plug-in hybrids, with the petrol-electric version offered with the same level of equipment and at an identical price to the 530i on which it is based. It is the first time a more advanced, more fuel-efficient variant of the same model has been offered in Australia without a price penalty, as hybrids traditionally command a significant premium owing to the high-tech battery system and electric motor." http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/bmw-slams-government-over-inaction-for-electric-cars-20170608-gwnh18.html "BMW has accused the federal government of having its "head in the sand" when it comes to encouraging greater use of low emission vehicles in Australia. Speaking at the launch of the new BMW 530e plug-in hybrid in Sydney on the day before Labour leader Bill Shorten issued an olive branch to Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull in a bid to resolve a stalemate over future emission policies, BMW Australia boss Marc Werner slammed the government for its lack of vision to set out a road map that would dictate a wider spread introduction of fully-electric and low-emission plug-in hybrid vehicles in Australia." what I find interesting is now that the governments have pretty much pushed the car industry out of australia... the last of it exits late this year.... why not asking all those auto industry subsidies across to electric cars instead ? also part of government policy i would suggest should also include NO public electric infrastructure approval that is not universal. the government has all the cards in their hands in this case I would suggest. each and every installation of EV charging would like approvals of some sort. so they should be sending a signal out there ... rather than the ridiculous situation that is likely now with duplication of charging infrastructure that is likely possible. 1
Briz Vegas Posted June 10, 2017 Posted June 10, 2017 Yes, I have just been reading about this. I think the 5 series pricing is driven by the success of Tesla in taking their 5 series market share. The base bare bones model S is $107k in Australia according to the Tesla web site ( if the base 3 was 1/2 that price here that would be ok -still expensive for me but ok) the BMW 5 series is within a gnats whisker of that price at $108k So , 30km electric range with a BMW or 300km or so with a S. Frankly I could not be arsed lugging around a petrol engine so for me it would be the Model S hands down. I think the big Tesla is too flipping big but it has a handy hatchback. I would also be wary of the BMW badge as it would attract unwanted attention ( I used to carshare with a BMW 5 series owner at Uni and she copped flack for the bourgeois badge, who needs that). The coincidence of Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi and BMW pushing the agenda on the same day is interesting. What they are not taking into account is the ultra conservative back bench in the current government. Liberal backbenchers would probably vomit at the sight of a Tesla, just as wind turbines made Joe Hockey projectile vomit such was his hated of anything low carbon. Now, if there was a promise of a few new brown coal power stations to run the electric cars they might feel differently. Those guys hate even moderate green policy. I have been disturbingly accurate in predicting things this week and I suspect I will be accurate in saying that we will see nothing until we have a federal Labor government, and even then it will be a struggle. I expect to pay full price plus some sort of extra tax on any EV I purchase if the Liberals (ha) remain after the next election to be held at approximately the same time as when the first Model 3s will be delivered in Australia. 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted June 10, 2017 Posted June 10, 2017 22 hours ago, al said: interesting approach by bmw, on back of the word that the i5 concept was shelved, instead it seems with their 5 series they are not charging any more for plug in hybrid tech vs their regular version of the cars. not that a car like this is any more accessible but a good option for those wiht the money for it, http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/2017-bmw-530e-price-and-equipment-20170605-gwkmwu.html They've been doing this with the 330e PHEV for a while now. Great car, BTW. 22 hours ago, al said: "BMW has accused the federal government of having its "head in the sand" when it comes to encouraging greater use of low emission vehicles in Australia. Speaking at the launch of the new BMW 530e plug-in hybrid in Sydney on the day before Labour leader Bill Shorten issued an olive branch to Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull in a bid to resolve a stalemate over future emission policies, BMW Australia boss Marc Werner slammed the government for its lack of vision to set out a road map that would dictate a wider spread introduction of fully-electric and low-emission plug-in hybrid vehicles in Australia." I half buy this. BMW hasn't exactly been leading standards development in Australia for EV and EV infrastructure. This car is subsidized in all other markets it competes in.... BMW isn't championing EVs, they just want a subsidy. It's a far less relevant EV than the i3, i8, 330e PHEV etc. As for Bill, when the Labour government was last around it's not as if they did anything constructive regards charging infrastructure policy, vehicle subsidies, etc. 22 hours ago, al said: what I find interesting is now that the governments have pretty much pushed the car industry out of australia... the last of it exits late this year.... why not asking all those auto industry subsidies across to electric cars instead ? Those subsidies amounted to ~$50/car. The industry is seeking >$5000 per EV instead. Possible, given that local production was only ~100k cars/year near the end though it'd end up costing more - the same pot of money would serve around 1k EVs/year, maybe 5k if we were extremely optimistic about the value of subsidies. And at any rate... you'd subsidise pure EVs over PHEVs, which the 5-series hybrid is not, and BMW knows this. (Their press dept should know better). They're having a non-productive whinge and someone should probably advices Shorten a little better before turning up and contributing... I'd be reluctant about trying to get the govt on board for any subsidy for a German execubarge on 30km range so it can better compete with an American full-EV upstart... which would likely get a considerably larger subsidy under the same arrangement. They're kinda screaming "here at BMW we want more EV subsidies so we can sell less of this overpriced PHEV 5-series we're launching!" (Hmmmmmm). And remember... those cars don't generate any fuel excise. So we need a new way of thinking about federal vehicle tax revenues before making enduring pledges around subsidies. 22 hours ago, al said: also part of government policy i would suggest should also include NO public electric infrastructure approval that is not universal. the government has all the cards in their hands in this case I would suggest. each and every installation of EV charging would like approvals of some sort. so they should be sending a signal out there ... rather than the ridiculous situation that is likely now with duplication of charging infrastructure that is likely possible. That ship sailed some time ago, unfortunately. Many of us were working with Standards Australia screaming black and blue about the need for this quite loudly at least five years ago, though the govt would not see any need to direct action towards this. So far as Level 2 (AC) standards go, there are actually three active in Australia: SAE J1772 (IEC 62196 Type 1) using standard signalling (IEC 62196-1), which is predominantly used in the US and supports single-phase charging. Most stations use this. Until Tesla started selling cars here it was the de-facto standard, and anything sold by a dealer that is EV or PHEV and not a Tesla uses this. Mennekes (VDE-AR-E 2623-2-2, or IEC 62196 Type 2) with custom signalling and deeper pins, which is what Tesla uses - ergo most EV cars in Australia use this. This supports three-phase charging. Mennekes connector using standard signalling (IEC 62196-1), which is the EU standard and supports three-phase charging. This is used by a state (or local) government-supported tried of converted Ford Focus EVs in WA. So. We have a three-phase grid but most reticulation to homes is single-phase based (newer dwellings are increasingly three-phase). Some cars at max AC charge rate are starting to get a bit big for single-phase charging. If none were universal, what woudl you recommend as a standard if that were the basis for federal funding? (ie see my aforementioned notes on leadership vacuum). 17 hours ago, Briz Vegas said: Yes, I have just been reading about this. I think the 5 series pricing is driven by the success of Tesla in taking their 5 series market share. The base bare bones model S is $107k in Australia according to the Tesla web site ( if the base 3 was 1/2 that price here that would be ok -still expensive for me but ok) the BMW 5 series is within a gnats whisker of that price at $108k So , 30km electric range with a BMW or 300km or so with a S. Frankly I could not be arsed lugging around a petrol engine so for me it would be the Model S hands down. I think the big Tesla is too flipping big but it has a handy hatchback. I would also be wary of the BMW badge as it would attract unwanted attention ( I used to carshare with a BMW 5 series owner at Uni and she copped flack for the bourgeois badge, who needs that). You'd take the S, of course (exterior size difference isn't that big and the interior size differences favour the S). S sales have been eating into 5-series for a while now, more than they do 3 or 7. 17 hours ago, Briz Vegas said: The coincidence of Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi and BMW pushing the agenda on the same day is interesting. What they are not taking into account is the ultra conservative back bench in the current government. Liberal backbenchers would probably vomit at the sight of a Tesla, just as wind turbines made Joe Hockey projectile vomit such was his hated of anything low carbon. Now, if there was a promise of a few new brown coal power stations to run the electric cars they might feel differently. Those guys hate even moderate green policy. No, they're taking it into account. The hope is that the market's listening, that by the time there's a change of government there's a tsunami of support in market from private and large corporate owners, and the new govt's forced to show hand and act. Every other attempt with a ruling govt to do something productive has been met with 'but the numbers are so low because the cars are too expensive anyway, so anything we could do isn't worth doing regardless'. 17 hours ago, Briz Vegas said: I have been disturbingly accurate in predicting things this week and I suspect I will be accurate in saying that we will see nothing until we have a federal Labor government, and even then it will be a struggle. I expect to pay full price plus some sort of extra tax on any EV I purchase if the Liberals (ha) remain after the next election to be held at approximately the same time as when the first Model 3s will be delivered in Australia. Yup. We've had the fed labour govt and seen it fall on deaf ears too. Fair to say we're at a point where you'd not worry too much about the government anyway. Most analysts predict EVs will hit cost parity in most segments in around 2025. Model 3 will lead this in C-segment executive sales. The change to EVs here will be market driven with the govt coming in late somewhere between wanting a photo op and having an epic whinge about the fuel excise. I'd worry more about where they choose to pick up the fuel excise revenues. Some of the ultra-conservatives you mention are going to want to tax the EVs for being EVs, and if they're savvy will use them as rationale to keep the baseload generators on overnight for cheap charging. Prob more the former than the latter.
Guest rmpfyf Posted June 10, 2017 Posted June 10, 2017 @:) al on reflection I think there's some good avenues to come out of your proposal of subsidy redistribution. You just wouldn't want a situation where an EV subsidy was helping people affluent enough to afford a Model S get another $5k off it. Maybe something like a $5k subsidy to 2020 (or a bit later) for EVs under $40k and purchased by fleets? Not a firm idea just a start.
Briz Vegas Posted June 10, 2017 Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) Roads have to be paid for but health care and climate change also have huge cost. Who is going to pay for that? This is a serious policy question. I suggest that a proper economic impact assessment is very likely to tell you that the ICE should be taxed and the EV should not. London and Paris are already heading in that direction. Diesels and their micro fines are on the nose despite their better MPG. The Australian new car fleet is getting more polluting, not less so. 2.3% worse in the last 12 months because the top 2 selling family runabouts are now trucks. Everyone wants to pretend to be a tradie that goes to Fraser every weekend. Green cars only made up 2.5% of the market, and amazingly the hatchback I drive was in that 2.5% because it is officially (intentional qualification) rated at under 120g CO2 and its petrol. It will also do 0 to 100 in about 9 seconds so there is no performance sacrifice involved. Edited June 11, 2017 by Briz Vegas 1
Briz Vegas Posted June 10, 2017 Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) The coversation is happening. http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/the-breakdown-electric-car-subsidies-20170610-gwoma4.html ...and surpringly ( even to me ) we now have 2 million EV drivers who put their money where their mouth is. I need to get off my bum given all my yabbering ( I am even starting to annoy myself). https://cleantechnica.com/2017/06/10/2-million-electric-cars-now-trolling-pollution-iea-reports/ Edited June 11, 2017 by Briz Vegas 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted June 11, 2017 Posted June 11, 2017 @Briz Vegas mate I agree with you. The tax structure raising revenue for road infrastructure needs to be revised - EVs are a net social good IMHO. ClimateWorks recently did some work on this for AU, pretty prescient stuff. You can imagine what some pollies might say though. Been under it since last-gen Camry Hybrid! Awesome car... I'll join your sub-120 club!
proftournesol Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Here's a good primer on EVs for anyone who wants t understand the basics, at least for Tesla's 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, proftournesol said: Here's a good primer on EVs for anyone who wants t understand the basics, at least for Tesla's It's a tad saccharine - "Tesla’s induction motor puts out 270 kW of power and weighs 31.8 kg, whereas an ICE that produces 140 kW of power is going to weigh around 180 kg"... And the battery in that Tesla weighs...
proftournesol Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 8 hours ago, rmpfyf said: It's a tad saccharine - "Tesla’s induction motor puts out 270 kW of power and weighs 31.8 kg, whereas an ICE that produces 140 kW of power is going to weigh around 180 kg"... And the battery in that Tesla weighs... It's not National Geographic but it gives a good idea of how things work 1
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