MattyW Posted February 15, 2024 Posted February 15, 2024 Honestly, charge times a non issue for me. If we're going to drive to Toowoomba, Noosa, Melaney, Montville etc for a day trip I just charge the vehicle the night before and if going on a holiday then yeah I use the family car which is turbo diesel. Just peace of mind. Give it a few years and vehicles will have 1000+km range and 10 minute charge speeds to 80% so there's little question that EV's are the future. Further to this my wife had to drive my Seal Performance for school drop offs for 2 days (major service for the Pajero Sport) and when she went back to the Pajero said she was looking to see if the handbrake was on or something was wrong. Driving the Pajero simply feels like the vehicle is defective in comparison with uncomfortable seating position, weird feeling steering and so unbelievably slow..... I likened it to driving a dinosaur down the road. Big, slow and cumbersome. Weird thing is we both loved the Pajero Sport before getting the Seal and now I'll use any excude to take the EV instead. Heck, I'm back to loving driving and will use any excuse to take the car out for a spin. It's like being in my 20's when I'd drive places just for the sake of driving. Freedom I guess.
Briz Vegas Posted February 15, 2024 Posted February 15, 2024 On the Model 3, this photo is not representative of comfort in the back seat. I am 185cm and it’s fine. Maric isn’t sitting normally in that seat, although I did see someone saying the new car has less rear space than my 2019 example. With no centre hump and decent knee room there is plenty space to spread out and get comfortable for a medium sized car. It’s way more leg room than my previous cars. If you want cramped in the rear look at the BMW 3 series. Under seat space for feet can be limited if the driver likes to set their seat low. Too much is made of the swab height in my opinion as an owner of 4.5 years who has only had adult sized people in the back.
aussievintage Posted February 15, 2024 Posted February 15, 2024 1 hour ago, Briz Vegas said: When I was a kid my family hooked up the caravan every holiday because it was inexpensive. We never went overseas. We drove Brisbane to Adelaide, Townsville, etc in a 1973 Mazda 929 1.8 naturally aspirated (135nm), with a folding caravan and later with a pop top caravan. You would be lucky to see 300km on a tank when towing as engines weren’t that efficient in the 1970s and the car was loaded up, For reference, Maric said “The electric vehicles they want everyone to drive aren’t capable of towing and long distance travel people are doing in diesels. And as a result you are seeing responses like …people thinking they’re having their weekends and holidays taken away from them”. Sorry, but even from what you said, that point still stands. You cannot go on a caravan holiday if all you own is an EV. What he said is true. As for $150,000 RAMs, no, but when a $60,000 Ranger is considered, you start to to see his point. I was so enthusiastic about getting an EV as a second car though. Unfortunately, the desirability of that solution, for me, is getting less, not greater. I even contemplated an electric trike or scooter ($3000 to $5000 type costs) with some ability to transport goods, as a second vehicle, but something like the Honda Benley is still more attractive. Hence I am still playing the waiting game.
betty boop Posted February 16, 2024 Author Posted February 16, 2024 Paul Maric is now days declared him self clearly in the click baiter zone to draw attention to his website and appeals to the fear mongering that anti ev proponents push forward day in day out... we saw this in his very flawed EV for road tripping comparison where he squewed it clearly to push his message when the reality clearly is not... as far as towing goes.. well our polestar 2 has 1500kg towing and is a long range machine so even at 50% range drop you are looking at 250-300km which is plenty really even with current infrastructure when you are not trying to cross simon dessert with a caravan 1
betty boop Posted February 16, 2024 Author Posted February 16, 2024 below is the Paul Maric from carexpert is at it again peddling his anti ev with EVs gonna kill the weekend ... due to emission standards now ... https://www.news.com.au/travel/australian-holidays/big-issue-caravan-industry-sounds-ev-warning-as-utes-targeted-in-fuel-efficiency-overhaul/news-story/79c418d8ca0123d6024ca569e10a5919 “Until we have an EV able to tow comfortably for 500 to 600 kilometres without the battery dying, it isn’t the time to be taxing people who are buying utes or SUVs for towing or long-distance travel,” said Paul Maric, founder of CarExpert.com.au. “The electric vehicles they want everyone to drive aren’t capable of towing and long-distance travel people are doing in diesels. And as a result you’re seeing responses like … people thinking they’re having their weekends and holidays taken away from them." folks in media which have a position of influence you would think are better informed and more understanding of where things are at... he should know that the government at no stage are saying they are taxing people because they are buying utes or SUVs ? as far as 500-600 km ? how many folks actually do that without stopping ? and if they do... they can keep buying utes and suv of today even and there is no tax ? the new emissions standards is to pressure back on the manufacturers to bring us more efficient vehicles here which they havent been, because we have no emissions standards unlike every where else in the world ... as far as evs and towing .. perhaps some focus needs to also go back to the caravan industry that they look to offer some more ev friendly options too... as they do in places like uk and such that they always have for much smaller cars..without people needing big gas guzzling trucks to tow their caravans... doing laps of Australia and such caravans are not impossible.. as demonstrated by eg below, https://thedriven.io/2024/01/06/ev-nomads-tesla-model-3-doing-lap-of-australia-towing-a-caravan/
aussievintage Posted February 16, 2024 Posted February 16, 2024 17 minutes ago, betty boop said: doing laps of Australia and such caravans are not impossible.. as demonstrated by eg below, https://thedriven.io/2024/01/06/ev-nomads-tesla-model-3-doing-lap-of-australia-towing-a-caravan/ LOL, that's not a caravan. C'mon 1
betty boop Posted February 16, 2024 Author Posted February 16, 2024 2 hours ago, aussievintage said: LOL, that's not a caravan. C'mon ok so do a paul hogan then and show us your caravan saying ... that is not a caravan.. this is a caravan 1 1
Peterbean Posted February 16, 2024 Posted February 16, 2024 11 hours ago, aussievintage said: Sorry, but even from what you said, that point still stands. You cannot go on a caravan holiday if all you own is an EV. What he said is true. As for $150,000 RAMs, no, but when a $60,000 Ranger is considered, you start to to see his point. I was so enthusiastic about getting an EV as a second car though. Unfortunately, the desirability of that solution, for me, is getting less, not greater. I even contemplated an electric trike or scooter ($3000 to $5000 type costs) with some ability to transport goods, as a second vehicle, but something like the Honda Benley is still more attractive. Hence I am still playing the waiting game. Peter Campbell, an early ev enthusiast ( and adapter , when that was what you did) has quite a long running blog on his regular caravan trips. This all came after building a SET 300b amp, building refrigerator size boxes for Tannoy golds and a big plinth for a …………..with a 12”. Arm. I’ll see if I can find it some time
Peterbean Posted February 16, 2024 Posted February 16, 2024 5 hours ago, betty boop said: ok so do a paul hogan then and show us your caravan saying ... that is not a caravan.. this is a caravan Big caravans are as much a part of our ecological disaster as big cars 1
aussievintage Posted February 16, 2024 Posted February 16, 2024 10 hours ago, Peterbean said: Big caravans are as much a part of our ecological disaster as big cars In that small context, maybe, but you really need to consider a much wider picture of what is happening in the way we live all around the world. In terms of saving the planet, return for effort, is not maximised by concerns about caravans, I assure you.
Addicted to music Posted February 16, 2024 Posted February 16, 2024 C’mon guys, you know why you don’t buy EVs to tow, or that’s environmentally friendly, far from it…….you buy it because of the sheer acceleration that grooves out a smile on your face…….the rest is blind justifications 2
betty boop Posted February 17, 2024 Author Posted February 17, 2024 2 hours ago, aussievintage said: In that small context, maybe, but you really need to consider a much wider picture of what is happening in the way we live all around the world. In terms of saving the planet, return for effort, is not maximised by concerns about caravans, I assure you. But you have t shown us your “this is a caravan” yet things like humongous caravans which is what have evolved from what @Briz Vegas posted were what was run of the mill, has meant folks now have to buy huge trucks to pull these things caravans do need a re think and why not ? We are doing the same with the truck sized utes we have ended up to pull them… the government is bringing in emissions laws and you can bet it will drive a re think …
aussievintage Posted February 17, 2024 Posted February 17, 2024 1 minute ago, betty boop said: But you have t shown us your “this is a caravan” yet thing is, I wasn't just joking. I would accept a normal small caravan, but that thing was only a trailer that can be erected like a tent into some sleeping space. 2 minutes ago, betty boop said: things like humongous caravans which is what have evolved from what @Briz Vegas posted were what was run of the mill, has meant folks now have to buy huge trucks to pull these things I actually agree that many are way over the top. My own caravan only sleeps two. Let's stipulate, for the sake of discussion, a small caravan is one with an ATM of about 1.5 tonne. 5 minutes ago, betty boop said: caravans do need a re think and why not ? We are doing the same with the truck sized utes we have ended up to pull them… the government is bringing in emissions laws and you can bet it will drive a re think … It is relative. I suspect that by "truck sized ute" you include, say, a Ford Ranger , Toyota Hilux, sized vehicle (about 2 and a bit tonne?) In the US, that's a small to medium pickup truck. Wider pictures and all that... But, look at the percentage of the overall road usage. Consider commercial diesel trucks (real trucks). Then compare to coal fired power stations. You see, that's why I don't get all down on a poor caravan owners wanting to enjoy life on the open road in retirement before they kick the proverbial.
betty boop Posted February 17, 2024 Author Posted February 17, 2024 3 minutes ago, aussievintage said: thing is, I wasn't just joking. I would accept a normal small caravan, but that thing was only a trailer that can be erected like a tent into some sleeping space. And that’s the thing ! Perhaps if looked at it folks might be more excepting of normal sized rather than humongous …. 4 minutes ago, aussievintage said: I actually agree that many are way over the top. My own caravan only sleeps two. Let's stipulate, for the sake of discussion, a small caravan is one with an ATM of about 1.5 tonne there are evs that can tow that now … our own included 5 minutes ago, aussievintage said: is relative. I suspect that by "truck sized ute" you include, say, a Ford Ranger , Toyota Hilux, sized vehicle (about 2 and a bit tonne?) In the US, that's a small to medium pickup truck. Wider pictures and all that... I had the scare of seeing an old hilux … vs one of the new ones that have obviously had a diet of steroids and it’s crazy how they have ballooned that’s the problem I think was being talked about …and with bulk of sales of folks buying these … it is a problem of magnitude … why we have the emission laws coming 7 minutes ago, aussievintage said: ut, look at the percentage of the overall road usage. Consider commercial diesel trucks (real trucks). Then compare to coal fired power stations. You see, that's why I don't get all down on a poor caravan owners wanting to enjoy life on the open road in retirement before they kick the proverbial. Doesn’t mean we don’t focus on those too.. bus with the sign “I am an all electric bus made in Melbourne” over took me today. An all electric Woolworths truck I saw on the road some weeks ago. Auspost is moving its fleet to electrocity our old coal power stations are not being replaced … renewable energy is the current and future and in same way there’s nothing stopping industry doing something about humungous caravans so you don’t need “trucks” to pull them
Briz Vegas Posted February 17, 2024 Posted February 17, 2024 (edited) EV manufacture in Australia? it may be unlikely, it is a startup, but at least one company is keen to do it. See 43 min on this presentation. Edited February 17, 2024 by Briz Vegas
muon* Posted February 17, 2024 Posted February 17, 2024 Went for a drive with Matt in the Seal around Mt Cootha today, must say It's a very nice ride. 2
MattyW Posted February 17, 2024 Posted February 17, 2024 35 minutes ago, muon* said: Went for a drive with Matt in the Seal around Mt Cootha today, must say It's a very nice ride. Lovely to drive around there too. 1
Addicted to music Posted February 18, 2024 Posted February 18, 2024 (edited) On 17/2/2024 at 11:26 AM, betty boop said: I had the scare of seeing an old hilux … vs one of the new ones that have obviously had a diet of steroids and it’s crazy how they have ballooned that’s the problem I think was being talked about …and with bulk of sales of folks buying these … it is a problem of magnitude … why we have the emission laws coming the new emissions laws won’t stamp out these humungus “utes” trucks, far from it…. They are huge in practicality that the average “Yaris” owner can’t see the light of day. Removing the station wagon segment pushes that market onto these utes. Every company that I know of that’s had station wagons are either on SUVs or utes, this is the reality of it all. Of all people; Paul Maverick purchased a ranger and uses it as a family wagon. I can’t put 250kg of parts and tools into a “Yaris” or a Tesla, Pulstar or a BYD Atto 3, or a BYD Seal etc. but I can fit it in a Navara or a Ranger to get the job done that’s required by our customers…. I can’t stop to wait 20mins at a charging station because I have to meet our clients set SLA! And if that’s the reality then that is what it is, if we were to stamp out emission then the auto industry needs to do better, EV is just one solution, there are many other ways to achieve the emission standards pending and still have what’s required. Saying that these trucks that’s balloon out in size is unnecessary is just impractical just to show you what’s in the tray, I did a mandatory stock take a week ago and we scanned just under 400 items and that doesn’t include tools or lubricants Edited February 18, 2024 by Addicted to music
betty boop Posted February 18, 2024 Author Posted February 18, 2024 Addicted to music, tradies have been using Utes far before ranger rocked up. Plenty still use old falcon and commodore Utes. Some take a small trailer behind. I recall your posts of how awkward high ranger is to load and access. We had all manner of trades rock upbfor our renovations. The builder and Sparkie had vans. The builder ford custom. For which there is a electric version https://www.ford.com.au/future-vehicle/next-gen-e-transit-custom/ vans are far more useable than trucks and Utes as can set up shelves and parts racks and walking either side or back. And still have room for something tall in middle if want to carry something. the Renault kangoo is also very popular and can be had electric https://www.renault.com.au/vehicles/kangoo-e-tech/? Mercedes has the e-vito https://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/vans/electric-vans.html? Peugeot has the epartner https://www.peugeot.com.au/models/partner-van.html? these things gobble up a lot and can tow as well for times need to lug more The world has moved on, it’s our time now with the emissions regs. While traddie Utes made sense with government write off incentives, the emissions regs will drive the manufacturers themselves to drive the change and it’s started already ford since decided it is not bringing in the petrol puma and petrol suvs and new electric will follow instead. If look at what they have in options see their electric show room, https://www.ford.com.au/showroom/electric-new/ theres also the other ev and phev they can pull in.. apart from mach e, theres ranger phev escape phev e-transit e-transit custom and theres the puma ev quite possible we see the lightening here as well, overseas they also have Ford Fusion, Ford Escape, Ford Explorer and Ford Maverick. the times they are a changing and while will see things like ranger will find them to be more efficient or with more efficient options as the manufacturer is going to be penalised for every one of the gas guzzling things they bring in
betty boop Posted February 18, 2024 Author Posted February 18, 2024 2 hours ago, Addicted to music said: can’t stop to wait 20mins at a charging station because I have to meet our clients set SLA! when we had tradies visit a lot of them would head off for lunch and it was far more than 20min ! Even if have your own lunch you could take with you stick on charge in quite idealistic settings around us or shopping centres and all manner of choices around but I’d say many won’t bother because don’t need to most tradies tend to go to a job and spend their time there. It isn’t effective use of their time on an hourly rate spending their day driving around. Their money is made working not driving around. So don’t actually clock up that many kms. Most tend to cover a radius of suburbs. Won’t find them going one side city to other. In any case if look most options I posted above have decent range in any case. Folks still needing rangers and such will still be able to buy them. But there’ll be more efficient options just as a Camry hybrid can do an amazing 900+km we will see this tech in more things and why not … Toyota hybrid sales are surging. More than ever, they sold a million more hybrids this last year vs previous … such is the thirst from folks for the more efficient ..
Grizzly Posted February 18, 2024 Posted February 18, 2024 On 16/02/2024 at 3:53 PM, betty boop said: ok so do a paul hogan then and show us your caravan saying ... that is not a caravan.. this is a caravan On caravans (and this may be an enormous brain fart), has there been any thought on developing a van with it's own significant battery storage that can act as an add-on to the vehicle, therefore extending/improving the towing range? Or even one with it's own motor controlled by the towing vehicle, possibly ameliorating the extra weight? 1
betty boop Posted February 18, 2024 Author Posted February 18, 2024 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Grizzly said: On caravans (and this may be an enormous brain fart), has there been any thought on developing a van with it's own significant battery storage that can act as an add-on to the vehicle, therefore extending/improving the towing range? Or even one with it's own motor controlled by the towing vehicle, possibly ameliorating the extra weight? hey Grizzly, and indeed this is kind if thing the caravan industry do need to work on. the example i pointed to were some "EV nomads" "Starting out with a 1986 Cub Drifter purchased from Facebook Marketplace, they set about making a few minor modifications, but, as with all ambitious projects, the modifications grew in scope, and large portions of the van were replaced with much lighter components. This allowed for the addition of air conditioning, a king-sized bed, a substantial battery pack, and 830W of solar panels, all under the 750kg weight limit for the caravan. Using the knowledge gained while working as an engineer with Zenith Energy, building some of Australia’s largest islanded (standalone) hybrid power stations, the caravan became a mobile renewable power station. It has the ability to store almost 16kWh of energy (which can be replenished by either the solar panels, a regular wall outlet, or a 15A caravan park socket) which can be used to charge the car at up to a rate of 5kW when off grid, or 7kW when in a caravan park." an ex tesla has gone further with a zero range loss RV as they call them in the us ... this is the "lightship" it had chief designer from Rivian work on it, Edited February 18, 2024 by betty boop
Addicted to music Posted February 18, 2024 Posted February 18, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, betty boop said: Addicted to music, tradies have been using Utes far before ranger rocked up. Plenty still use old falcon and commodore Utes. Some take a small trailer behind. I recall your posts of how awkward high ranger is to load and access. We had all manner of trades rock upbfor our renovations. The builder and Sparkie had vans. The builder ford custom. For which there is a electric version https://www.ford.com.au/future-vehicle/next-gen-e-transit-custom/ vans are far more useable than trucks and Utes as can set up shelves and parts racks and walking either side or back. And still have room for something tall in middle if want to carry something. the Renault kangoo is also very popular and can be had electric https://www.renault.com.au/vehicles/kangoo-e-tech/? Mercedes has the e-vito https://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/vans/electric-vans.html? Peugeot has the epartner https://www.peugeot.com.au/models/partner-van.html? these things gobble up a lot and can tow as well for times need to lug more The world has moved on, it’s our time now with the emissions regs. While traddie Utes made sense with government write off incentives, the emissions regs will drive the manufacturers themselves to drive the change and it’s started already ford since decided it is not bringing in the petrol puma and petrol suvs and new electric will follow instead. If look at what they have in options see their electric show room, https://www.ford.com.au/showroom/electric-new/ theres also the other ev and phev they can pull in.. apart from mach e, theres ranger phev escape phev e-transit e-transit custom and theres the puma ev quite possible we see the lightening here as well, overseas they also have Ford Fusion, Ford Escape, Ford Explorer and Ford Maverick. the times they are a changing and while will see things like ranger will find them to be more efficient or with more efficient options as the manufacturer is going to be penalised for every one of the gas guzzling things they bring in here’s the sales for January 2024, the Ranger tops the list as the most sold vehicle; thanks to Paul Maverick! https://www.fcai.com.au/news/index/view/news/820 it isn’t going away. The reason is it gives the owner capabilities Build an EV equivalent, well they did with Ford on the F150…..you can see how well that’s going, no one wants them! Ford has shut there production line down and are make a loss! C’mon, let’s get real here, the Commodore/falcon utes are no longer available. Yes, agreed that I hate climbing in the back of that tray to pull things out. I was given the option to shelving but they are fixed shelving that can’t easily removed. one thing about the Navara is that even it’s a tradies vehicle it rides better (comfortable) than there top of the line SUV, it’s not the fastest but the slowest…. Then there’s the issue of weight limit that most other vehicles will need there suspensions modified. Let’s also get real; no EV places a spare tyre due to propping up there range figures, in reality that’s a ball breaker especially if you’re in the middle of no where and you cop a flat….Dont get me started that you don’t have flats, one year it was 3 in a wk due to the area I was in! Yeah, I can have all the other options but that’s out of my pay grade, not that I like driving a huge vehicle around but that’s what the company decided that every tech should have. And no I can’t see the Cyber Truck being practical, it’s a show off item! Edited February 18, 2024 by Addicted to music
MattyW Posted February 18, 2024 Posted February 18, 2024 (edited) Yeah, I get a puncture every few years but usually can limp to a servo to top up then on to a tyre shop for repair. Usually seems to be a screw or something in the tread on my Pajero Sport. I’d love to see a return of commodore type utes, but as an EV. The battery could really do wonders for the handling in such vehicles vs those of yesteryear. I still believe Cybertruck is one of the ugliest things I’ve ever seen…. And note there’s reports of rust. Stainless just doesn’t appear to be all it’s cracked up to be given it really needs a coat of paint to prevent corrosion issues. It’s totally unnecessary to build a vehicle from it. No upsides. Edited February 21, 2024 by MattyW 1
aussievintage Posted February 19, 2024 Posted February 19, 2024 Please excuse the tone of this post (and others I have and may make on this subject). It stems from disappointment and frustration. I know you guys are fans of EVs, and I would be too, only if... 1 hour ago, betty boop said: indeed this is kind if thing the caravan industry do need to work on. These small toys are FAR from being new thing. The reality is that people who want such a small thing to live are very small in number. They've always been available and number of sales are what they are. EVs change nothing about the size caravan required, and fail to be able to support the market. 54 minutes ago, Addicted to music said: it isn’t going away. The reason is it gives the owner capabilities Build an EV equivalent, well they did with Ford on the F150…..you can see how well that’s going, no one wants them! Ford has shut there production line down and are make a loss! Yep, they have failed. Is there no real EV version of a decent sized ute? 2 hours ago, betty boop said: ranger phev 45 km or electric driving range? That's barely an electric vehicle at all. Plus it's petrol and an Ecoboost engine. Have fun towing with that Despite that, I look forward to seeing it hit the market. Small steps I guess. 55 minutes ago, Addicted to music said: no EV places a spare tyre due to propping up there range figures, Wow, another BIG no no, for travelling. You can't limp to a servo when you are 100s of kilometres from civilisation.
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