Electric Cars Discussion

[betty boop]

Can't save that much on the pension.  Have to win the lottery then I'm in.

 

Were they going to do a 4wd version of the Model 3 ?

Does your S have 2wd with some sort of clever 'traction control' ?

 

Since changing from old 4wd Subie the 'Traction Control' on my '02 Commodore has proven good enough for what I need.  (Slippy wet clay road and wet grass now and then).

 

hi eman have have you considered the mitsubishi plug in hybrid 4WD that @@ufo has posted  about. could be the kind of thing you are looking for now  ?

 

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/99333-mitsubishi-phev/

[ufo]

Sorry double post.

Edited March 24, 2016 by ufo

[ufo]

If Tesla makes this I am in.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1457180776.673519.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1457180787.936301.jpg

That looks like Station wagon version of Model S!

[ufo]

That's the one I like.  I've got a big blue Commo wagon now cos like it.  This would do the trick for me. (having enough $$ in the plate is always an extra unspoken requirement with me tho).  Big Blue Commo wagon cost me $5K.

 

Is it a real Tesla idea or a private dream 'graphic' ?

 

I'd be torn between that and a model 3 softroader.

Well, Tesla is no dream, but all reality. Model 3 is not a softroader., maybe you getting confused with Model X which a soft roader but very expensive, not available here yet but $100,000 USD in US. So it would be over $200,000 AUD here.

Have you ever taken a look at Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV?

[eman]

 

 

hi eman have have you considered the mitsubishi plug in hybrid 4WD that @@ufo has posted  about. could be the kind of thing you are looking for now  ?

 

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/99333-mitsubishi-phev/

 

No, because I don't have the money to buy anything.  Will be trying to get the Commo with 290 xxx km on it already to do me for 10 years.

 

Well, Tesla is no dream, but all reality. Model 3 is not a softroader., maybe you getting confused with Model X which a soft roader but very expensive, not available here yet but $100,000 USD in US. So it would be over $200,000 AUD here.

Have you ever taken a look at Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV?

Wasn't there talk of a model 3 'crossover' ?  what does that mean then ?

Pretty sure I do get confused with what is what since I don't follow it too closely since I can't afford any of them .  See above.

I just like the look of the blue wagon and don't know what model it's a wagon of or if it's a real Tesla proposal.  Just wanted to make a mental note for later. (When I'm rich).

Edited March 24, 2016 by E.Man

[proftournesol]

That's the one I like.  I've got a big blue Commo wagon now cos like it.  This would do the trick for me. (having enough $$ in the plate is always an extra unspoken requirement with me tho).  Big Blue Commo wagon cost me $5K.

 

Is it a real Tesla idea or a private dream 'graphic' ?

 

I'd be torn between that and a model 3 softroader.

It's just speculative, nobody knows what the Model 3 looks like. There's likely to be an SUV version although probably for a later release

[ufo]

By pure coincidence just received this, quote;

 

 

"We’re excited to share more details about our Model 3 unveil plans. We’ll be live streaming the event on Tesla.com beginning at 8.30pm PDT on March 31. Tune in to join in the experience. We can’t wait to show you what we’ve been working on.

Reservations for Model 3 begin on March 31st worldwide. There are two ways to make a reservation. The first, which will allow you to get a better spot in the queue, is to visit your local Tesla store when it opens on March 31st. Second is to make a reservation online at Tesla.com when the live unveil starts at 8:30pm PDT.
 

Reservation amounts in each currency can be found here.

In order to be as fair as possible, there will be a different queue for reservations in each region. And as a thank you to our current owners, existing customers will get priority in each region (one priority reservation for each Tesla they own). For those who aren’t Tesla owners yet, this means the fastest way to buy a Model 3 is to buy a Model S or Model X.

Model 3 production is scheduled to begin in late 2017. When production begins, we will begin deliveries in North America starting on the West Coast, moving east. As we continue to ramp production, we will begin deliveries in Europe, APAC and right-hand drive markets.

Thank you for your continued support!

The Tesla Team"

 

 

I checked the link, the reservation amount for US is 1000 USD and AU 1500 AUD!

Edited March 24, 2016 by ufo

[eman]

It's just speculative, nobody knows what the Model 3 looks like. There's likely to be an SUV version although probably for a later release

Model 3 SUV is prob what I was thinking of thanks Prof. (Our resident Tesla specialist)

 

Would have thought calling it a 'softroader' was close enough to something that's a future option guys ?

 

Maybe they'll do the blue wagon with SUV running gear for me.

[proftournesol]

'Softroader' is probably less appropriate to an EV SUV. If it comes with air suspension like the Model S or X then ground clearance won't be an issue. We don't know about approach or departure angles yet. Remember that you don't need a low range transfer case like with an ICE car and traction is much better as power delivery is linear and smoother. Of course low profile road wheels and tyres would need to be replaced but I'd be interested in seeing the extent of it's abilities off road. If you look on YouTube you'll see videos of even the RWD Tesla having superior traction to AWD cars in snow.

[proftournesol]

Interesting article on the challenges and opportunities that present in the transition from ICE to EV

 

 

RIDING THE TESLA MODEL 3 WAVE: ARE WE READY?

Posted on April 21, 2016 by Matt Pressman

Guest Blog Post: Leah Y. Parks is a journalist in the electricity industry and associate editor of ElectricityPolicy.com and Electricity Daily, and, she's an advisor to Oregonians for Renewable Energy Progress. She is also co-author of the book "All-Electric America: A Climate Solution and the Hopeful Future"*

Tesla Model 3 pre-orders surprised, amazed, and beat expectations. The end of oil powered cars is being called. With more certainty that an electric transportation future is coming faster than forecasted, we dare not only dream, but must prepare. The prospect of a larger than expected electric vehicle (EV) influx is exciting news, but are our communities ready?

Above: Tesla Model 3. Source, Tesla Motors

A robust charging infrastructure will be required to manage the needs of the many new Model 3 and other EVs coming online. Although Tesla Motors [NASDAQ: TSLA] plans to double its Supercharging network and increase the destination charging program four-fold, there is concern that this will not be enough for Model 3 owners. A recent CleanTechnica article describes how we are at “a critical junction” where we are moving from the phase of “the Early Adopters” to “the Early Majority” and, “left unmanaged, the volume of vehicles would quickly overwhelm the current and planned super fast charging network and render it effectively unusable.”

We will need more than just Tesla to help develop a robust charging infrastructure for the 21st century transportation system. David R. Keith, an assistant professor at MIT Sloan School of Management, points out that, “America currently has nearly 100,000 public charging points, and will need a whole lot more if Tesla’s Model 3 is to really take off.” The majority of EV drivers are in the city and Keith believes that EVs, “challenge the conventions that underpin how we live our lives and build our cities.”

Above: â€œNew electric car owners—and likely future Model 3 owners—are early adopters who must navigate a system that is still evolving.” Source, MIT Technology Review

Businesses, cities and utilities would greatly benefit from evaluating if they are ready for large EV penetration. As communities scramble to figure out how many EVs will hit their roads in these next two-to-five years, we can most certainly expect opportunities, challenges, and conflict on the horizon. California is already showing some of the associated growing pains. As Model 3 pre-orders continue to climb, cities already appear to be responding.

New York City lawmakers, in anticipation of cheaper electric vehicles and particularly Tesla’s Model 3, held a hearing this April on a bill for installing new charging stations. They want to be prepared for the inexpensive EVs soon to hit the market that they believe, “will create a sudden need for charging stations in all five boroughs.”

Above: Tesla Model S charging in New York City. Source, Teslamondo

It appears Bloomberg’s recent prophetic article was correct or perhaps even underestimates how fast the number of cars with plugs will grow and displace their fossil fuel predecessors. “Takeoff” by 2020 and the projection that 35% of all new vehicles by 2040 will have a plug, no longer seems like an EV enthusiast’s pipedream, but instead entirely plausible. Tony Seba, lecturer in entrepreneurship, disruption and clean energy at Stanford University, believes the transformation to all-electric transportation will happen by 2030. He explains that if we just look at the last turn of the century we can see how quickly disruption can happen. In just 13 years, from 1900 to 1913, New York City went from a street filled with horse-and-buggies to one filled with cars.

Above: Two images of New York City’ Fifth Avenue on Easter Sunday. One in 1900 and the other in 1913 just 13 years later. – Images and Captions Obtained from Mountain Town News on Tony Seba’s publications and talk. Image sources, U.S. National Archives and Records Administration & George Grantham Bain Collection

As of April 15, 2016, Tesla Model 3 preorders were reported to be approaching 400,000, an amount that is indeed significant. The chart below, presented in a recent Forbes article, shows in the U.S. how leading popular models of cars in 2015 sold less than the number of Model 3 preorders to date. We also must not forget that the Chevy Bolt is expected to come out at the end of 2016.

Above: "Tesla started taking orders for the Model 3 last week [starting on March 31st], and the results were remarkable. In 24 hours the company took $1,000 deposits for 198,000 vehicles. By end of Saturday [April 2nd] the $1,000 deposits topped 276,000 units; for a car not expected to really be available until 2017. Compare that with the top-selling autos in the U.S. in 2015.” Source, Forbes

If we could step into an EV-ready community, let’s say in 2018, what would we want our communities to look like? In the mind’s eye of anyone dreaming about a better electric future there would be an infrastructure to both support and utilize the amazing resource that electric vehicles can be.

A woman named, Electra, for example, would find all she needed in the day to support her brand new 2018 Tesla Model 3. She would have an awesome home energy management and vehicle-to-grid (V2G) system that would allow for charging at low prices during the night, during which she could happily fill her battery for less than $1 per gallon equivalent. Her friend Buzz, living in an apartment nearby, would also have access to a charging system in the building’s garage so he wouldn’t be left out. Their utility would be happy too because, it could now have folks to sell its wind energy to instead of dumping it at night. That would keep energy suppliers and environmentalists feeling good.

Electra would find more than enough chargers in the massive Walmart parking lot where she works. There would be no need to fight with other EV owners over spots. The vehicle-to-business & V2G system would allow the utility and the building to use or provide energy to the car batteries. Now both the business (producing some of its own energy from the solar panels on its roof) and the utility are happy because there is a great new resource, employee and customer car batteries for managing both electricity load and generation. The V2G system is perfect, of course, and makes certain that the battery is fully charged when it is time to go home.

Above: Workplace charging solutions at SDG&E. Source, IEEE Transportation Electrification Community

There are presently minimal Federal policies which support the development of an infrastructure for electric vehicles. This puts our cities, states, businesses and the utilities that serve our communities on the hook to make Electra and Buzz’s 2018 world happen. Cities in particular are expected to be an important player in the planning and deployment of a charging infrastructure that will help support and promote EVs for all. This of course will put pressure on our cities as planning will need to be ramped up, particularly in areas expecting a larger EV influx.

In many cities around the world we are now in a phase where policy makers are rolling up their sleeves and working through the nuts-and-bolts details that will make this future happen. Cities and states need to streamline permitting processes for charging stations, deal will smart grid communication protocols, coordinate efforts with local utilities, include business in planning, and continue to provide monetary and non-monetary incentives to mobilize demand for EVs in city fleets.

Equity for all and what is expected of our businesses, building owners, and governments will also need to be addressed. Public Policy will be developed to determine whether companies like Intel, Ikea or Walmart, whose employees’ cars sit in their parking lots all day, will have to provide charging for their employees. Utilities would be smart to be involved in encouraging planning for charging at the workplace as they will surely face generation and sub-station problems when a whole neighborhood races home after a day’s toil to plug in all at once, right at 5:30 PM.

Demands for mandatory availability for charging in apartment building garages and in lower-income communities will also be one of many important policies to evaluate. Certainly, the top question on everyone’s mind will be who is responsible to pay for this and how.

Above: NREL Vehicle Systems Engineer Mike Simpson connects a direct current (DC) battery from an electric vehicle to a grid charging system that supplements the grid with stored electricity from the vehicle. Credit: Dennis Schroeder. Source, Renewable EnergyWorld.com

There are resources for cities to help in planning. A study from the Clinton Climate Initiative provides extensive policy options, lessons from peer cities on developing an infrastructure, and other important recommendations.

An eLab Accelerator team in Seattle, Washington, including the municipal utility, city government representatives, and industry experts, is one example of how a utility has begun planning an EV charging program. They are focusing on infrastructure deployment, engaging the business community, the impact on the distribution system, smart energy system integration and the potential for managing variability, time of charging options, customer engagement and more. A look at what countries around the world are doing as well is a must. Norway for example plans for 100 percent of new passenger cars, buses, and light commercial vehicle sales to be zero emission vehicles by 2025.

Above: Tesla Model S, Source: Tesla Motors

The electric utilities will most certainly need to prepare and partner with businesses and governments. A recent article on the Pecan Street experiment in Austin, Texas demonstrates how, although a charging network is completely doable, analyses is necessary to evaluate how the grid and substations will handle the increased load. Incentives, time-of-use (TOU) programs, V2G, and smart meters will become more important as the utility strives to shift load and use car batteries for balancing during the day. This, however, brings up other issues. If car owners give utilities the right to have access to the auto’s batteries, will the car manufacturers give warranties on the batteries? The good news is that justification for investing an EV infrastructure should be easier now and a no-brainer, particularly in the most “EV Friendly” regions.

Above: "Pecan Street. Research at Pecan Street and other locations is proving that electric cars can be integrated into a smart grid to maximize efficiency and drive energy costs down not only for EV users, but for all power users." Source, Digital Trends

Businesses will also want to begin thinking about EV expansion implications. Investment in charging may be incentivized or even required soon. Analysis of prospects to partner with utilities for V2G and Vehicle-to-Building options will most certainly be explored in more detail. There is also new opportunity for companies developing software and the internet of things (IoT) and burgeoning charging companies as well.

Above: 6 Nissan LEAFs power office building in Japan to test “Vehicle-to-Building” technology. Source, evobsession.com

Preparation, however, does not mean that there won’t be conflict. California, at the forefront of the EV expansion, is demonstrating many of the the “growing pains” we should anticipate. Planners in Portland, Oregon are questioning whether EV charging stations are a cost or benefit for utility customers. A recent articledescribes how another point of conflict is whether utilities will need to or should be allowed to own the charging stations.

Although the electric utilities in California are investing in the infrastructure and the public utility commission has authorized putting money towards electric vehicle infrastructure, the burgeoning EV charging businesses are concerned whether California’s utilities will monopolize the charging infrastructure. The vehicle to grid (V2G) applications complicate things even more.

The list of possible issues could continue and all of this will need to get worked out sooner than later. Problems are solvable. These are exciting and transformative times with much opportunity and a bit of uncertainty. Perhaps the most exciting fact is that it is time to not just dream about the electric life lead by the likes of Electra and Buzz. Rather, it is time to plan and time to act.

===

*All-Electric America: A Climate Solution and the Hopeful Future, co-authored by S. David Freeman and Leah Y. Parks, discusses the energy transformation and impact of electric vehicles in more detail in their newly released book.

Above: (left) All-Electric America: A Climate Solution and the Hopeful Future, and, (right) Leah Y. Parks

Posted in Electric Vehicles, Tesla, Tesla Model 3, tesla model s, TSLA

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[Guest rmpfyf]

David Keith is a very smart guy.

 

Also an expat Aussie! (We're awesome  )

[proftournesol]

There seem to be enough Aussies involved to be designing and building our own EVs if only we had any vision here

[Guest rmpfyf]

They all fled. Much of Model 3's powertrain controls and sim is headed up by one particular Melburnian guru. 

 

Holden's biggest export right now is their engineering core. A real shame - they can put together great cars, now doing it elsewhere.

[proftournesol]

It is a tragedy, we have the intellectual capital and the workforce and the raw materials but politicians that can't see further than the mining company head office

[Guest rmpfyf]

Yup (unions could have been more helpful too).

[betty boop]

we can only hope they come home one day just as @@rmpfyf has

[Guest rmpfyf]

I came back for family... and because this is a rather nice place

 

Hard argument for many engineers to stay though. Two good mates are leaving this month, one to a foreign university and another to another electric car maker in California. Between the job, the USD and being able to make a crust on what you love to do, many are leaving.

 

A real shame. Aussie engineers punch well above their weight!

 

On that, there's a rumor that EV Engineering's EV Commodores might be for sale...

[betty boop]

I came back for family... and because this is a rather nice place

 

Hard argument for many engineers to stay though. Two good mates are leaving this month, one to a foreign university and another to another electric car maker in California. Between the job, the USD and being able to make a crust on what you love to do, many are leaving.

 

A real shame. Aussie engineers punch well above their weight!

 

On that, there's a rumor that EV Engineering's EV Commodores might be for sale...

 

 

it was an interesting discussion on Q&A a few weeks back...about the brain drain...and thats what one of the panel said...eventually they come back...becuase of the kids and family.... because yes there is no place like home and this is indeed the lucky country

[betty boop]

wiht the success of the phev outlander from mitsubishi....

 

those not wanting a mid size SUV will be looking am sure to their upcoming ASX compact SUV

 

Replacement for Mitsubishi's all-new ASX compact SUV breaks cover as XR-PHEV II

 

http://www.motoring.com.au/geneva-motor-show-mitsubishis-next-asx-49510

 

 

 

 

 

the interior looks a bit of a mess and now sure thats a bit of a show pony and the road going version is probably a little less lairy

 

anyways something for those not wanting the very conventional 4WD looks of the outlander I guess,

 

the quoted specs read well,

 

"It comprises an unspecified small combustion engine, a 120kW electric motor and a 12kWh battery pack to consume less than 1.7L/100km and emit less than 40g/km of CO2, says Mitsubishi."

 

but its been over a year since release of this concept...youd only think mitsubishi was indeed going to actually follow through wiht something in the market place,

[Guest rmpfyf]

Those extremely well-heeled might also look to BMW releasing their X5 PHEV locally in the coming month.

 

Apparently it's quite a nice thing (for $120k you'd hope so!)

[rocl444]

it was an interesting discussion on Q&A a few weeks back...about the brain drain...and thats what one of the panel said...eventually they come back...becuase of the kids and family.... because yes there is no place like home and this is indeed the lucky country

28yrs ago i came to NZ from Sth Aus for 10mths. still here. interesting about aus being "the lucky country", as there is much i don't miss. the heat, the issues with water, the abominable politics, the reliance on coal, the traffic, the cost of housing, the reliance on cars for transport as it seems nigh impossible to live near work.

 

on the other hand there is also much to recommend it but there is not much i miss. i like nz's independent international stance - read no fawning to the US, and that the internal politics is relatively civil. proportional representation is great for forced co-operation between parties.

 

i haven't ever seen myself as part of the "brain drain" - in fact the idea brings an idiot smile to my face, but i can't see me returning - ever. still consider myself an aussie living in nz. best of both worlds!

[rocl444]

wiht the success of the phev outlander from mitsubishi....

 

those not wanting a mid size SUV will be looking am sure to their upcoming ASX compact SUV

 

Replacement for Mitsubishi's all-new ASX compact SUV breaks cover as XR-PHEV II

 

http://www.motoring.com.au/geneva-motor-show-mitsubishis-next-asx-49510

 

 

 

 

 

the interior looks a bit of a mess and now sure thats a bit of a show pony and the road going version is probably a little less lairy

 

anyways something for those not wanting the very conventional 4WD looks of the outlander I guess,

 

 

what is it with car design these days - FUGLY. from all the manufacturers except maybe VW. too many lines, angles, sharp corners etc.

 

maybe i have become an old fogey but i love simple clean lines. harmony and balance aren't exclusive to music. the mk6 golf gti is very good but i may be biased. the mk1 was brilliant.

[Guest rmpfyf]

28yrs ago i came to NZ from Sth Aus for 10mths. still here. interesting about aus being "the lucky country", as there is much i don't miss. the heat, the issues with water, the abominable politics, the reliance on coal, the traffic, the cost of housing, the reliance on cars for transport as it seems nigh impossible to live near work.

 

on the other hand there is also much to recommend it but there is not much i miss. i like nz's independent international stance - read no fawning to the US, and that the internal politics is relatively civil. proportional representation is great for forced co-operation between parties.

 

i haven't ever seen myself as part of the "brain drain" - in fact the idea brings an idiot smile to my face, but i can't see me returning - ever. still consider myself an aussie living in nz. best of both worlds!

 

Can't argue with you there. 

NZ has its charms and just keeps getting better.

 

For argument's sake (and as not to be OT) most vehicle distributors in NZ take a very different perspective to why they're in the market, as such, there's considerably more EV choice in NZ. New Leaf, Renault Zoe, etc. Ignore that you'd have to get your Model S privately imported in NZ - talking about cars most can afford, NZ has more market scope than AU.

 

Sobering and true. Used to drive me insane when I last worked for a car company here when trying to make a business case for more PHEVs. 

Edited April 23, 2016 by rmpfyf

[betty boop]

the nissan leaf gets a very bad rap here, but it actually has some very good cred,  beyond what many give credit for.

 

as per wiki,

 

"As of December 2015, the Nissan Leaf is the world's all-time best selling highway-capable all-electric car. Leaf global sales passed the 200,000 unit milestone in December 2015, five years after its introduction. As of December 2015, the top markets for Leaf sales are the United States with over 89,000 units, followed by Japan with over 57,000 units, and Europe with over 49,000 Leafs. The European market is led by Norway with over 15,000 new units, and the U.K. with over 12,000 units registered.

As an all-electric car, the Nissan Leaf produces no tailpipe pollution or greenhouse gas emissions at the point of operation, and contributes to reduced dependence on petroleum.^[13][14] Among other awards and recognition, the Nissan Leaf won the 2010 Green Car Vision Award, the 2011 European Car of the Year, the 2011 World Car of the Year, and the 2011–2012 Car of the Year Japan."

 

its just that over here its rrp is over $51,5k ! and at that very poor value given its really based on the nissan tilda a $20 something car from some years ago...infact the model before the current pulsar. and most can see that going for a drive. that no one is buying it literally at its retail price has a flood of 4 year old cars still on the lot and heavily discounted at 40 something they unfortunately are still not shifting them. again people just see it as poor value.

 

none the less at this point in time it is the cheapest EV on the roads here. for many just looking for a city run about it would easily perform that role.

 

it just needs to come down a tad in price ! 

 

lets hope the new 2016 leaf is a different proposition... in quality of car and in price they introduce it at.

 

I read though nissan has decided to pull out of the compact car segment in australia, withdrawing both the micra and pulsar from our market. sticking to 4WD instead. I suppose the way the see it they have the renaults doing extremely well with excellent cars so why compete even wiht themselves with under par sister cars. 

 

we can only hope it doesnt mean the 2016 leaf doesnt even come here. or if does in another half hearted attempt. 

 

on other hand can only hope it opens the door to the likes of the comparatively very good renault zoe.

 

all this keeping in mind its not like everyone is looking for a tesla. for EVs to be successful you need a few cars in different segments not just ones in the luxo end

[Guest rmpfyf]

Most auto firms here make a loss in passenger vehicle segments and a profit in SUV/commercial. Luxury segments are profitable but smaller. 

 

Sales channels and targets need to change to sell EVs properly. Tesla's a good example - no franchises, different revenue model. Needs more change than that to sell even cheaper (how and why we sell cars).