s2020 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 G'day all, I normally browse American hifi forums and the brand "Emotiva" pops up constantly with their very well regarded power amplifiers at a reasonable price range, $500 or so. But shipping to Australia is >$300 or more, so that option is off the table. I'm looking for a decent power amplifier (NOT integrated) available in Australia in the triple figure range. I don't want to pay thousands of dollars for a ridiculously huge amplifier, I only need ~90W dynamic absolute worst case scenario (talking Michael Bay THX Transformer explosion dynamic level here), average music listening I would probably pull less than 1 watt. Alternatively, if I was to connect a pre-amp to an integrated amplifier, could I just max out the integrated amp volume and control the system volume from my pre-amp?
henry218 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 G'day all, I normally browse American hifi forums and the brand "Emotiva" pops up constantly with their very well regarded power amplifiers at a reasonable price range, $500 or so. But shipping to Australia is >$300 or more, so that option is off the table. I'm looking for a decent power amplifier (NOT integrated) available in Australia in the triple figure range. I don't want to pay thousands of dollars for a ridiculously huge amplifier, I only need ~90W dynamic absolute worst case scenario (talking Michael Bay THX Transformer explosion dynamic level here), average music listening I would probably pull less than 1 watt. Alternatively, if I was to connect a pre-amp to an integrated amplifier, could I just max out the integrated amp volume and control the system volume from my pre-amp? im guessing you have a 99db speakers? below $1k, one needs to DIY to make it worthwhile. as the case alone costs somewhere between $150-$500 if AB amps that need heatsinks. 1
Cafad Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I suspect second hand or DIY are going to be your only options in this price range. 1
JukKluk2 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I think that there are two ways to address the first part of your problem. Firstly, is there a three figure well regarded power amplifier out there? If you want new, might I suggest you make inquiries at some of our commercial members as they would know better than most here I would think. On the other hand, if you are happy to buy used equipment then you need to be looking at the classifieds here, as well as e-bay and gumtree and such like. The "integrated as power amp" scenario is a different kettle of fish. Or is it? Going that route just means that for the same price you are paying for a whole host of features (unless you get something truly minimalist) that you are never going to use. Used equipment would seem the logical place to start with this. As to the integrated as power, it would seem to me to be prudent to not have the volume wide open simply for safety's sake, especially with a used amp.
rantan Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 3 price figure power maps are not exactly common, new or used. With your stated budget the Emotiva may be the best choice, otherwise DIY, as others have said ,is your only option 1
betty boop Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 another option is something like an australian made elektra theatre 7 multichannel amp, second hand you can often pick them up at $1800 or so, so your only paying something like $250 a channel. with the quality of amplifier your getting particularly for 2ch duties and also for ht thats pretty hard to beat I think. be pretty hard to replicate the quality of thing it is DIY as well. theres one going in the for sale sub forum. and considering the kind of thing easily go 10+ years and supported well locally spreading the cash outlay over the years its literally nothing !
RankStranger Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Call around Rotel dealers to see if they still have a RB06 power amp. I don't think they are current anymore but they never sold that well so someone may still have one kicking around. 70 watts per channel and retailed around $700-$800 and sounded really decent. The only reason they didn't sell well was that the idea of an entry level pre-power didn't suit most folks. Entry level buyers just went integrated. Pre-power buyers went for the more expensive 10/15 series http://www.rotel.com/Uk/Products/Productdetails.Htm?Id=41&Tab=2&Pic=1
betty boop Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Call around Rotel dealers to see if they still have a RB06 power amp. I don't think they are current anymore but they never sold that well so someone may still have one kicking around. 70 watts per channel and retailed around $700-$800 and sounded really decent. The only reason they didn't sell well was that the idea of an entry level pre-power didn't suit most folks. Entry level buyers just went integrated. Pre-power buyers went for the more expensive 10/15 series http://www.rotel.com/Uk/Products/Productdetails.Htm?Id=41&Tab=2&Pic=1 good point, I realised I mis read the original post, I thought it meant australian made. if just available in australia, 100s of dollars rather than 1000s yes sure easy. rotel. theres stacks of rotels on ebay, in the 100s dollars price point. nad , cambridge. local brand new and don't spend $300 on shipping with no local warranty
Guest yamaha_man Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Just to let you know, @@gat474 once bought his Emotiva amp to @@cheekyboy place for a shootout against Keith's ME 550II hi-cap. I think it lasted only a few minutes before it was returned to the car. Moral of the story, most times you get what you pay for. Cant afford 4 figure power amp at the moment? My answer is to wait until you can and go secondhand.
rantan Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Cant afford 4 figure power amp at the moment? My answer is to wait until you can and go secondhand. OR. Get a cash advance on your credit card :nana 2
Guest Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Yep, keep saving, worth the wait, or, you may be offered or fall over a good old 100 watter, cheap, keep looking. Try before you buy is a good motto also, some second hand is sold because of some nasty fault. Cheers Matt
s2020 Posted March 19, 2015 Author Posted March 19, 2015 Most advice so far has been "Wait until you can afford 4 figure amp or don't bother at all". How rich are you people? :mellow: I have very little experience in hifi (certainly no means to "blind test" equipment) but much of what I read says that amp choice matters very little compared to speaker choice. I was looking into the KEF LS50 as one speaker option and KEF themselves say that amps basically don't matter at all as long as they have enough power, see here where they explicitly state that THD and SNR stopped being an issue in "the early 1970's": http://www.kefdirectblog.com/kef-blog-audio-files/2014/1/7/which-amplifier-is-best-for-my-speakers-part-3-compare-the-n.html Why is it that so many integrated amps in the $500-$600 range come highly recommended but power amps <$1000 are automatically disregarded? good point, I realised I mis read the original post, I thought it meant australian made. if just available in australia, 100s of dollars rather than 1000s yes sure easy. rotel. theres stacks of rotels on ebay, in the 100s dollars price point. nad , cambridge. local brand new and don't spend $300 on shipping with no local warranty Do you know where I could buy NAD/Cambridge local brand new for <$1000? I had a look on eBay for Rotel amplifiers but most of them were obscure 40 year old models or "pickup only" due to weight. I have heard a lot of good things about NAD amplifiers.
Jventer Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Hi @@s2020 I see you are in Darwin - a bit humid for me. I have recently left Alice Springs after 6.5 yearsrthere. At least you have a HiFi shop in Fanny Bay - in Alice we had nothing. Anyway, I have some experience with poweramps. I have tried many things, but IME it all boils down to this: Australian made? Chinese made? European made? US made? Valve? Solid state? Class D? Watts per channel is not as important as the efficiency of your speakers. OK, lets look at Australian made. I do not know everything, but AFAIK currently you can get Naksa, Elektra, Redgum and ME (and others - please excuse my ignorance) On an international basis the sky is the limit and Emotiva is one of those - there are however, many others. Without being too pessimistic: you do get what you pay for in most circumstances. Edited March 19, 2015 by Jventer
Guest yamaha_man Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 l guess what i was meaning by wait until you can get a 4 figure amp is don't purchase an Emotiva but its your hard earned.
kunalraiker Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 l guess what i was meaning by wait until you can get a 4 figure amp is don't purchase an Emotiva but its your hard earned. Stop bashing Emotiva, I have personally experienced significant improvement in sound quality using xpa-5, had top tier Cambridge works receiver prior. Don't be so naive to low down a brand that has highest dollar to performance ratio. Read online on detailed reviews and you will know what I mean. If you're still not convinced, come down to my place and I'll give you a demo you won't ever forget.
Guest yamaha_man Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Stop bashing Emotiva, I have personally experienced significant improvement in sound quality using xpa-5, had top tier Cambridge works receiver prior. Don't be so naive to low down a brand that has highest dollar to performance ratio. Read online on detailed reviews and you will know what I mean. If you're still not convinced, come down to my place and I'll give you a demo you won't ever forget. How about you read my first post mate, where a tiny little ME power amps kicks an Emotiva's ass. Oh, hang on, ill sell my Krell monoblocks and purchase the Emotiva. Thanks for the advice, you really know what you're talking about. Me come to your place hey? l have a much better idea! I'm having a gtg this weekend, bring your Emotiva amp along and lets see how it performs in my system. I'll bet whatever you're willing to that it's the weakest link by a country mile. Oh, and as for being naive, if you believe what you ready in reviews you should eat your own words. Ever read a bad review, l haven't. Cambridge is **** anyway, over prices Emotiva equivalent. Enjoy your day and your Emotiva amp(s). Edited March 19, 2015 by yamaha_man
s2020 Posted March 19, 2015 Author Posted March 19, 2015 Hi @@s2020 I see you are in Darwin - a bit humid for me. I have recently left Alice Springs after 6.5 yearsrthere. At least you have a HiFi shop in Fanny Bay - in Alice we had nothing. Anyway, I have some experience with poweramps. I have tried many things, but IME it all boils down to this: Australian made? Chinese made? European made? US made? Valve? Solid state? Class D? Watts per channel is not as important as the efficiency of your speakers. OK, lets look at Australian made. I do not know everything, but AFAIK currently you can get Naksa, Elektra, Redgum and ME (and others - please excuse my ignorance) On an international basis the sky is the limit and Emotiva is one of those - there are however, many others. Without being too pessimistic: you domwhat you pay for in most circumstances. G'day mate, I don't mind which country it's manufactured in, although I would choose an Australian made amp if all else was identical! I would prefer solid state. From all my reading it seems like tubes have a lot of quirks and generally cost a lot. I am told by a bunch of smart people that Class D has come a long way in the last few years, I'd be happy with a Class D as long as it sounded good (I hear a lot of great things about NAD's latest Class D amps but they are integrated). I am not such a die hard audiophile to have Class A monoblocks putting out 10,000W of heat to provide 1W to the speakers! 1
kunalraiker Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 How about you read my first post mate, where a tiny little ME power amps kicks an Emotiva's ass. Oh, hang on, ill sell my Krells monoblocks and purchase the Emotiva. Thanks for the advice, you really know what you're talking about. Me come to your place hey? l have a much better idea! I'm having a gtg this weekend, bring your Emotiva amp along and lets see how it performs in my system. I'll bet whatever you're willing to that it's the weakest link by a country mile. Oh, and as for being naive, if you believe what you ready in reviews you should eat your own words. Ever read a bad review, l haven't. Cambridge is **** anyway, over prices Emotiva equivalent. Enjoy your day! I completely agree with you, you've got it all figured out We all are fools, reviews were user reviews on sites like audition, avs forums etc. But guess what we're all wrong. Enjoy your Krill!
Cafad Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Most advice so far has been "Wait until you can afford 4 figure amp or don't bother at all". How rich are you people? :mellow: I have very little experience in hifi (certainly no means to "blind test" equipment) but much of what I read says that amp choice matters very little compared to speaker choice. I was looking into the KEF LS50 as one speaker option and KEF themselves say that amps basically don't matter at all as long as they have enough power, see here where they explicitly state that THD and SNR stopped being an issue in "the early 1970's": http://www.kefdirectblog.com/kef-blog-audio-files/2014/1/7/which-amplifier-is-best-for-my-speakers-part-3-compare-the-n.html Why is it that so many integrated amps in the $500-$600 range come highly recommended but power amps <$1000 are automatically disregarded? Do you know where I could buy NAD/Cambridge local brand new for <$1000? I had a look on eBay for Rotel amplifiers but most of them were obscure 40 year old models or "pickup only" due to weight. I have heard a lot of good things about NAD amplifiers. Try here for cut price Cambridge amps (I didn't know there was a power amp version of the 651, I guess you learn something new every day). http://www.synergyaudio.com/storenewarrivals.aspx Audio GD is another option too, good quality product at very reasonable prices. And the cheapest new product I can find is this NAD. https://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/nad-c245bee-power-amplifier Also, generally it is not that we recommend integrated amps in the sub $1K range and disregard power amps in the same range, it is just that there are many integrated amps in that range and almost no power amps at all. So it is difficult to recommend something that just doesn't exist. The KEF LS50s are a great speaker but many people have reported difficulty in finding amps that can make them perform at their best, this is because they are a low efficiency speaker that dips to near 3 Ohms at times so an amp has to have not only watts but the ability to just pump plenty of current into them to make them perform. John Darko has a few articles about them on DAR, they are worth a read if you intend to go in that direction. If you are after a Burson 160 series power amp (second hand of course) I've got one that I've had in the classifieds until recently at $650.
s2020 Posted March 19, 2015 Author Posted March 19, 2015 "Audio GD is another option too, good quality product at very reasonable prices." I actually own an Audio-GD DAC, I would be 100% happy to buy from them again but their cheapest non-integrated amp is $1750 USD ! Which I guess comes back to "Can you just turn the volume knob up on the amp and use a pre-amp to control volume instead"?
Hippy Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Theres a decent 200w a channel Rotel RB-1080 on Gumtree atm for $650... 3
betty boop Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 ~ Do you know where I could buy NAD/Cambridge local brand new for <$1000? I had a look on eBay for Rotel amplifiers but most of them were obscure 40 year old models or "pickup only" due to weight. I have heard a lot of good things about NAD amplifiers. 40 years old ? no way, the ones I pointed to you on ebay are very current designs, the rotel 1070 here for $350 rated at 130wx2 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rotel-RM1070-Power-Amp-/151617884289?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item234d215081 also if its multichannel you are after check out the rotel 1075 rated at 120w x 5, these often go in the $500 mark http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rotel-RMB-1075-5-Channel-Power-Amp-/151617884288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item234d215080 the above rotels are quite gutsy real honestly rated power amps using quality components and the kind of thing will last the test of time Theres a decent 200w a channel Rotel RB-1080 on Gumtree atm for $650... very good suggestion, a very gutsy power amp of quality, some in the us use for 800 series B&W even admittedly would be absolute minimum I would run on 800 series but are great amps for money regardless
betty boop Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 lets also try and understand when you say power amplifier are you talking about multichannel or 2 channel ? also what speakers are you running or planning on running. that will give us some clue or idea on what to suggest. and what is your pre amp ? additionally keep in mind by wanting to go separates e.g. pre power it can end up costing more. if on a budget you might be better off flogging off the pre and using that to supplement the money in the kitty to get a better 2ch integrated instead. we don't have a lot of info to work with at present. if on a budget, you don't necessarily need to look to buying new. there is nothing wrong with 2nd hand. especially if its a local bought item, you still get support for it locally. if its on run out or near new likely still have some warranty. best to keep options open rather than limit, have to be creative when on a budget.
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