PMC Speakers Owners & Discussion Thread

[needlerunner]

The cheapest new 60 wpc Bryston integrated amp is 8k. Then you would have people on this thread commentating that this would not be enough power for PMC speakers.

So you can't win.

 

The Plinius is 200wpc and costs less than 7k. The cost of a 200wpc or there abouts Bryston is out of reach of some people, especially this little black duck.

 

IT'S a moot point for me anyway, as l am more than happy with the sound of my Plinius. I'm betting that most knockers have not even heard a Plinius/PMC conbination.

 

Audiophile snobs would probably turn their nose up because it's made in NZ and not the UK or USA.

[frankn]

  On 03/10/2019 at 7:34 AM, needlerunner said:

The cheapest new 60 wpc Bryston integrated amp is 8k. Then you would have people on this thread commentating that this would not be enough power for PMC speakers.

So you can't win.

 

The Plinius is 200wpc and costs less than 7k. The cost of a 200wpc or there abouts Bryston is out of reach of some people, especially this little black duck.

 

IT'S a moot point for me anyway, as l am more than happy with the sound of my Plinius. I'm betting that most knockers have not even heard a Plinius/PMC conbination.

 

Audiophile snobs would probably turn their nose up because it's made in NZ and not the UK or USA.

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 Or Not at all - Plinius have a very good reputation. 

[needlerunner]

  On 03/10/2019 at 9:10 AM, frankn said:

 Or Not at all - Plinius have a very good reputation. 

Not according to some. But [emoji106]up to you for saying so.

[audio_file]

  On 03/10/2019 at 7:34 AM, needlerunner said:

The cheapest new 60 wpc Bryston integrated amp is 8k. Then you would have people on this thread commentating that this would not be enough power for PMC speakers.

So you can't win.

 

The Plinius is 200wpc and costs less than 7k. The cost of a 200wpc or there abouts Bryston is out of reach of some people, especially this little black duck.

 

IT'S a moot point for me anyway, as l am more than happy with the sound of my Plinius. I'm betting that most knockers have not even heard a Plinius/PMC conbination.

 

Audiophile snobs would probably turn their nose up because it's made in NZ and not the UK or USA.

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Bryston is made in Canada as far as I know.

 

I think there is a misconception here. I have said from the beginning that PMC recommends Bryston, but this does not mean that I think Bryston is the best match, it just means PMC as a company prefers them. In fact I didn't like most Bryston systems I have heard in the past. The only one I did like was their 1KW mono block amplifiers, but driving Dynaudio speakers instead of PMC.

 

I am curious about hearing a Plinius one day.

[needlerunner]

  On 04/10/2019 at 12:10 AM, audio_file said:

Bryston is made in Canada as far as I know.

 

I think there is a misconception here. I have said from the beginning that PMC recommends Bryston, but this does not mean that I think Bryston is the best match, it just means PMC as a company prefers them. In fact I didn't like most Bryston systems I have heard in the past. The only one I did like was their 1KW mono block amplifiers, but driving Dynaudio speakers instead of PMC.

 

I am curious about hearing a Plinius one day.

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Canada. Trump would say that is part of the Good Old USofA. If not probably try and buy it like Greenland haha.

 

I think, though not heard myself, that PMCs would sound great with most quality amps. I have nothing to compare with, as l have not heard them with any other amp. But l did give them a brief spin with my 70w Arcam(now sold) when l first got them, and thought they sounded great through that.

 

The Plinius though took it to an all new level. Won't be changing it anytime soon. Unless there is reliability issues. Which l have not heard of. At the moment everything is still running in. But every day it seems to sound better, and l just can't wait to play it.  I guess that's what is all about l think.

 

I recently heard an Acuphase Class A Integrated amp through some ProAc bookshelf speakers, and though that was pretty special.

 

There is a lot of great gear out there.

And l expext that you love your MA

Silver 500s, if my memory serves me correct?

 

[audio_file]

  On 04/10/2019 at 4:52 AM, needlerunner said:

There is a lot of great gear out there.

And l expext that you love your MA

Silver 500s, if my memory serves me correct?

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I agree.

 

No that is not me, I have these three:

Cyrus CD Xt Signature, Stream X Signature, Pre2 DAC Qx, Stereo 200, Vienna Acoustics Beethoven baby grand SE

Naim CD5 XS, ND5 XS, Nait XS2, FlatCap XS, Spendor SP2/3R2

Linn Genki, Chord 2Qute, Musical Fidelity A3.2CR, ATC SCM 19

 

I sold my PMC Twenty.23, so perhaps I don't qualify for this group any more, but there is a chance I might try the Twenty5.23 or Twenty5.22 one day.

[needlerunner]

  On 04/10/2019 at 5:00 AM, audio_file said:

I agree.

 

No that is not me, I have these three:

Cyrus CD Xt Signature, Stream X Signature, Pre2 DAC Qx, Stereo 200, Vienna Acoustics Beethoven baby grand SE

Naim CD5 XS, ND5 XS, Nait XS2, FlatCap XS, Spendor SP2/3R2

Linn Genki, Chord 2Qute, Musical Fidelity A3.2CR, ATC SCM 19

 

I sold my PMC Twenty.23, so perhaps I don't qualify for this group any more, but there is a chance I might try the Twenty5.23 or Twenty5.22 one day.

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Haha. Stuffed up again. Sorry mate, mistaken identity. Will bug me now to who l was thinking of.

 

Man, you have some great gear there mate. Great hobby isn't it.

 

I'm good for now, but maybe later, like you, might go up the PMC food chain. But before l cark it, would love to hear some Harbeths, Spendors and some ATCs, but the ATCs arn't the most attractive of speakers (probably the stands more so) But boy, they have a huge following and huge raps. But loving my PMC twenty.23s at the minute.

 

I could quite easily add Sonus Faber and ProAc to the list. As they say...one power ball.

 

[audio_file]

  On 04/10/2019 at 8:00 AM, needlerunner said:

Man, you have some great gear there mate. Great hobby isn't it.

 

I'm good for now, but maybe later, like you, might go up the PMC food chain. But before l cark it, would love to hear some Harbeths, Spendors and some ATCs, but the ATCs arn't the most attractive of speakers (probably the stands more so) But boy, they have a huge following and huge raps.

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Thanks.

I quite like the look of my ATC SCM 19, they definitely have a unique sound.

 

[frankn]

Has anyone heard (or own) MB3-XBD-A or BB6-XBD-A models of PMC speakers?

They seem like they are a hell of of a speaker system. 

 

[theking]

  On 04/10/2019 at 11:48 AM, frankn said:

Has anyone heard (or own) MB3-XBD-A or BB6-XBD-A models of PMC speakers?

They seem like they are a hell of of a speaker system. 

 

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I will be happy to have a chance to listen to this amazing cinema setup

 

 

[Cope]

Hi all,

 

Quick question for the PMC gurus here - what would you say is the minimum amplification required for the PMC Twenty5 21 or Twenty5 22s in a smallish room to moderate volumes (maybe 90dB max)? I occasionally see 30-200w bandied about, but when it comes down to it the advice from owners seems to be "all of the watts".

 

The reason I ask is that I'm planning to tuck away some money and treat myself to a new pair of speakers for my 40th, but I'm not sure if my Marantz PM8006 has what it takes to power the PMCs (70w into 8ohms).

 

Thoughts?

Edited October 12, 2019 by twofires

[audio_file]

  On 12/10/2019 at 6:24 AM, twofires said:

Hi all,

 

Quick question for the PMC gurus here - what would you say is the minimum amplification required for the PMC Twenty5 21 or Twenty5 22s in a smallish room to moderate volumes (maybe 90dB max)? I occasionally see 30-200w bandied about, but when it comes down to it the advice from owners seems to be "all of the watts".

 

The reason I ask is that I'm planning to tuck away some money and treat myself to a new pair of speakers for my 40th, but I'm not sure if my Marantz PM8006 has what it takes to power the PMCs (70w into 8ohms).

 

Thoughts?

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I think that PM8006 would be more than enough, especially for the 22.

[RCADees]

  On 12/10/2019 at 6:24 AM, twofires said:

Hi all,

 

Quick question for the PMC gurus here - what would you say is the minimum amplification required for the PMC Twenty5 21 or Twenty5 22s in a smallish room to moderate volumes (maybe 90dB max)? I occasionally see 30-200w bandied about, but when it comes down to it the advice from owners seems to be "all of the watts".

 

The reason I ask is that I'm planning to tuck away some money and treat myself to a new pair of speakers for my 40th, but I'm not sure if my Marantz PM8006 has what it takes to power the PMCs (70w into 8ohms).

 

Thoughts?

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Hi there TwoFires,

 

I finally own a pair of Twenty5.22 and have been running them with a Rega Brio R (50w into 8ohms) for the last few weeks or so and I am very happy to report that I am very, very satisfied with how much power is there.  Absolutely marvellous! You will be very happy with the volume level achieved, it can be LOUD. I really haven't had the need to go beyond 9 o'clock, only today I took it up to 10 o'clock with a lower level recording. I was actually surprised as to how easy the Twenty5. 22 are to run.

The clarity, is absolutely superb. Fleetwood Mac sounded incredible. I played some techno-house as well and the bass is just too good, more felt than heard. 

 

Yes, I have been recommended the same, that the more power the better. But this has more to do with "head room" not necessarily volume levels. The linearity of the amplifier, in simple terms, the speakers will show you more. So the more amp watts you can afford the better,  but sometimes I wonder if we are trying to split hair...

In addition, the Twenty5.21 (86.5db) are slightly harder to drive than the Twenty5.22's (89db), this is another reason I went for the Twenty5.22 but the Brio R just doesn't seem to have a sweat... 50w into 8ohms of pure bliss...

 

I hope this helps and great choice by the way!

[Cope]

  On 12/10/2019 at 11:18 AM, Andpi said:

Hi there TwoFires,

 

I finally own a pair of Twenty5.22 and have been running them with a Rega Brio R (50w into 8ohms) for the last few weeks or so and I am very happy to report that I am very, very satisfied with how much power is there.  Absolutely marvellous! You will be very happy with the volume level achieved, it can be LOUD. I really haven't had the need to go beyond 9 o'clock, only today I took it up to 10 o'clock with a lower level recording. I was actually surprised as to how easy the Twenty5. 22 are to run.

The clarity, is absolutely superb. Fleetwood Mac sounded incredible. I played some techno-house as well and the bass is just too good, more felt than heard. 

 

Yes, I have been recommended the same, that the more power the better. But this has more to do with "head room" not necessarily volume levels. The linearity of the amplifier, in simple terms, the speakers will show you more. So the more amp watts you can afford the better,  but sometimes I wonder if we are trying to split hair...

In addition, the Twenty5.21 (86.5db) are slightly harder to drive than the Twenty5.22's (89db), this is another reason I went for the Twenty5.22 but the Brio R just doesn't seem to have a sweat... 50w into 8ohms of pure bliss...

 

I hope this helps and great choice by the way!

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That's encouraging! 

 

I think both the Rega and the Marantz are regarded as being fairly conservatively specced, but even so, it's good to hear 50w will do the job,  let alone 70.

 

It seems like every speaker review I read is either "Speaker X is an easy load best experienced with a 5w tube amp" or "Speaker Y is a difficult load requiring 200wpc minimum to fully open up". Hard to know where you stand with an amp somewhere in between. 

 

It's not so much a choice as a shortlist at the moment - the 40th is a while off, but the PMCs are quite striking and I am quite fond of a lot of bass in a small place.

 

You say that you "finally" own the PMCs - how long had you been after a pair? Sounds like you're in your happy place now!

[RCADees]

  On 12/10/2019 at 11:34 AM, twofires said:

It seems like every speaker review I read is either "Speaker X is an easy load best experienced with a 5w tube amp" or "Speaker Y is a difficult load requiring 200wpc minimum to fully open up". Hard to know where you stand with an amp somewhere in between. 

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Hi Twofires,

Yes, reviews would normally go for high wattage amplification because of the head room. Amplifiers only have a percentage of linearity and the more watts the better the signal input will translate into what you hear. It means also that when the amplifier needs to pump out more then it can easily do it. And yes, the more watts you have and the more volume you apply, depending on the speaker of course, may end up causing damage. But again this is about applying volume. In saying that, the little Rega Brio R is rated at 50w into 8ohms, but the Sanken Darlington transistors are rated at 150w. It is a very special little amp which can run Magnepans without toasting. (but I wouldn't)(http://www.tonepublications.com/spotlight/rega-brio-r-worlds-first-review/)

 

  On 12/10/2019 at 11:34 AM, twofires said:

It's not so much a choice as a shortlist at the moment - the 40th is a while off, but the PMCs are quite striking and I am quite fond of a lot of bass in a small place.

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Oh yes, that was my dream two years ago for my 40th birthday. I wanted some grown up speakers, but it couldn't happen at the time (mortgage, kids etc). The Twenty5 .22 bass is very special, (Same for all PMCs) I really haven't heard anything like it. It is so absolutely precise, but it is not a big rumbling explosion in the room. It is hard to describe. If the bass is there it will just produce it in a controlled non masking way. The bass doesn't hide the rest of the music. It is tremendous. I played an old CD, Terry Lee Junior, Chocolate Chords and the bass on this is so captivating, a real joy. So much so that I ended up buying more Terry Lee Junior CDs.

But I wouldn't think about it as a subwoofer... The other thing I noticed is that I could feel more the bass. I could certainly feel it under the rug on the floor boards. The bass doesn't go around the room booming. I love it.

Another thing, these speakers are very clear, you can really hear everything, so I noticed that I was just hooked, but then quickly realised that it wasn't just that, it became a very emotional thing. I played Jose Gonzales, I could hear the humming of the amp next to him in the room and is like I can feel the force with which the guy plucks the cords, before I never heard (or felt) those plucks with such intensity. Amazing. The first day I had them I found myself a bit teary a couple of times. Not many speakers have the ability to translate that. It is not just what you hear, but what makes you feel. It is the depth with which a piano or voice feels.

On specs the Twenty5 .22 have a much bigger bass driver , 6.5", versus the Twenty5 .21, 5.5".

 

  On 12/10/2019 at 11:34 AM, twofires said:

You say that you "finally" own the PMCs - how long had you been after a pair? Sounds like you're in your happy place now!

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I first listen to them about 6 years ago, possibly the Twenty 22. But at the time I really didn't even look much more into it as we had other financial priorities. So sometime early this year I started investigating again. Due to the price I was also looking at other non PMC options but I always came to the same conclusion. These were the speakers I really wanted in the long term.

Here in Stereonet PMC owners have been great, there is a lot of knowledge around. 

Also to note, is that speakers and gear always sound better at my place than at the HI-Fi shop, perhaps I am more used to the acoustics in my lounge room?

So yes, I do feel like I am in a very happy place and it took me a lot of effort to get here. I really don't see myself changing for something else. I am only intending to upgrade the amplifier for more watts, but there is no rush. I would still keep the Brio-R for a second system. It is that good.

 

If you need to know more and perhaps if you live close by, just PM me.

 

Cheers.

[Cope]

@Andpi They certainly sound like winners from your description, and more or less the qualities I'm looking for. 

 

Re: watts, if it came down to it I have a Rotel RA-1592 out in the lounge that can put 200w into 8 ohms comfortably, but it has a different character to the Marantz. The Rotel system (powering KEFs) is a very clean, clinical setup. For the second system I'm looking for energy and character and punch. The amp isn't going to change for me (200w of Marantz comes in the form of the PM10S1 at $13000, which is about 10k more than I have ever spent or likely will ever spend on amplification). 

 

The current speaker shortlist is;

 

- PMC Twenty5 22 (have yet to hear them, but am 2 years off at the moment so don't want to bother people with auditions just yet)

 

- Dynaudio Contour 20 (haven't heard these specifically, but have a general idea of the Dyn sound)

 

- ProAc Response D2 (gorgeous sound with a cello-like timbre to the bass, sounds great with my amp)

 

- Krix Esoterix Altum (have heard these briefly and they were certainly fleshing out AC/DC better than I'd heard before)

 

Looks wise, I think the PMCs top the list, with the more traditional ProAcs in Ebony a close second. 

[RCADees]

  On 13/10/2019 at 1:57 AM, twofires said:

@Andpi They certainly sound like winners from your description, and more or less the qualities I'm looking for. 

 

Re: watts, if it came down to it I have a Rotel RA-1592 out in the lounge that can put 200w into 8 ohms comfortably, but it has a different character to the Marantz. The Rotel system (powering KEFs) is a very clean, clinical setup. For the second system I'm looking for energy and character and punch. The amp isn't going to change for me (200w of Marantz comes in the form of the PM10S1 at $13000, which is about 10k more than I have ever spent or likely will ever spend on amplification). 

 

The current speaker shortlist is;

 

- PMC Twenty5 22 (have yet to hear them, but am 2 years off at the moment so don't want to bother people with auditions just yet)

 

- Dynaudio Contour 20 (haven't heard these specifically, but have a general idea of the Dyn sound)

 

- ProAc Response D2 (gorgeous sound with a cello-like timbre to the bass, sounds great with my amp)

 

- Krix Esoterix Altum (have heard these briefly and they were certainly fleshing out AC/DC better than I'd heard before)

 

Looks wise, I think the PMCs top the list, with the more traditional ProAcs in Ebony a close second. 

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Great list and good luck with the journey! Let us know how you go with those PMC 

[needlerunner]

  On 13/10/2019 at 1:57 AM, twofires said:

@Andpi They certainly sound like winners from your description, and more or less the qualities I'm looking for. 

 

Re: watts, if it came down to it I have a Rotel RA-1592 out in the lounge that can put 200w into 8 ohms comfortably, but it has a different character to the Marantz. The Rotel system (powering KEFs) is a very clean, clinical setup. For the second system I'm looking for energy and character and punch. The amp isn't going to change for me (200w of Marantz comes in the form of the PM10S1 at $13000, which is about 10k more than I have ever spent or likely will ever spend on amplification). 

 

The current speaker shortlist is;

 

- PMC Twenty5 22 (have yet to hear them, but am 2 years off at the moment so don't want to bother people with auditions just yet)

 

- Dynaudio Contour 20 (haven't heard these specifically, but have a general idea of the Dyn sound)

 

- ProAc Response D2 (gorgeous sound with a cello-like timbre to the bass, sounds great with my amp)

 

- Krix Esoterix Altum (have heard these briefly and they were certainly fleshing out AC/DC better than I'd heard before)

 

Looks wise, I think the PMCs top the list, with the more traditional ProAcs in Ebony a close second. 

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Hi twofires. Might just butt in here.

(Sick of the2 way conversation, yawn ). Just buy the bloody things. You will never regret it. Later on just upgrade to a higher amp. C'mon you know you want too.

 

[RCADees]

  On 13/10/2019 at 12:25 PM, needlerunner said:

Just buy the bloody things. You will never regret it. Later on just upgrade to a higher amp.

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I agree, when you get your hard earned cash go for it. I really doubt that you'd be disappointed. Although if you are trying to achieve perfection you may never be happy with anything you get... ever. 

[Irek]

  On 12/10/2019 at 6:24 AM, twofires said:

 not sure if my Marantz PM8006 has what it takes to power the PMCs (70w into 8ohms).

 

Thoughts?

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It does have enough power but the quality of amp and source is quite important with PMC. 

[RCADees]

  On 13/10/2019 at 8:12 PM, Irek said:

It does have enough power but the quality of amp and source is quite important with PMC. 

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Irek is right. The PMC just tells it how it is. 

[Cope]

  On 13/10/2019 at 12:25 PM, needlerunner said:

Later on just upgrade to a higher amp.

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  On 13/10/2019 at 8:12 PM, Irek said:

It does have enough power but the quality of amp and source is quite important with PMC.

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See this is the thing - it seems like the old rule about spending most of your budget on your speakers is a thing of the past. Speaker manufacturers now know they can build speakers that are difficult to drive and that's seen as a sign of a good speaker. You wind up in situations where reviewers listen to $1k speakers with $15k amps, and a speaker manufacturer like PMC can sell a speaker for $5500 and only recommend amps from a brand that starts at $7k.

 

Of course, there's always the possibility that, on the consumer side of things, a fair bit of this is cognitive dissonance at work - if you've spent $7000 on an amp, you're not going to want to accept that you could have achieved the same sounds for a third of the cost. Not talking about anyone here, just about the general consumer wisdom surrounding the product. 

 

  On 13/10/2019 at 7:31 PM, Andpi said:

Although if you are trying to achieve perfection you may never be happy with anything you get... ever. 

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Definitely agree that perfection is a fool's errand - I'm more trying to make the best choice for my tastes within budget, which, for the moment, involves sticking with the PM8006.

 

Does anyone know of anyone running PMC with Marantz? It doesn't seem a common combo. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by twofires

[Cope]

Anyway, I'm polluting this thread with my own concerns.  I'll leave off. Thank you all for your help!

[blakey72]

I'll have to inform my mate that Peter now uses Bryston amps. He definately used to use Plinius when he spoke to him. This was in 2008 though. He thought it strange too that he didn't use Bryston. I must get hold of a Bryston one day. 

[Irek]

  On 13/10/2019 at 9:27 PM, twofires said:

See this is the thing - it seems like the old rule about spending most of your budget on your speakers is a thing of the past.

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I think the amp should cost 50% - 200% speakers price. Starting from Rega Brio.